OH NO! I have eggs.

[Roy Munson]

Well since it's the only plan of it's kind then what do you expect? If you REALLY don't like it write a new one? I didn't like it, so I changed it. Surley people should have the common sense to slow their snakes feeding down when it doubles in size every month LOL.

Well, it's easier to run around nipping at someone's heels and whining at every opportunity than to do something constructive. "I got ripped apart but I don't have examples-- waaaaaah! It still lingers today-- waaaaaah!"

 

[NFS07]

Cough, not really what I had in mind for this thread. I guess a few of you got to share your thoughts so back to ranting about people who are unable to google "corn snake."

 

[Joejr14]

Cough, not really what I had in mind for this thread. I guess a few of you got to share your thoughts so back to ranting about people who are unable to google "corn snake."

Well unfortunately we don't get to say what gets discussed in a thread. It's a public forum and threads often take very different turns, usually for the good. It's what makes this type of stuff so fun.

 

[NFS07]

Until Duff and Dean start batting it back and forth again...

 

[Joejr14]

Until Duff and Dean start batting it back and forth again...

The ignore button works wonders. There are several people on this forum whose posts I have not had to deal with for quite some time....

 

[Roy Munson]

Until Duff and Dean start batting it back and forth again...

If I followed you from thread to thread making unsubstantiated claims and nipping at your heels, you may just feel the need to respond yourself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

And speaking of Duff, he makes this post in this thread:

I remember raising concerns/doubts about the "Plan" in the past and being ripped apart every time (some of which I think still lingers on to this day, tbh). Funny how things turn out, eh

I decided to do Duff's homework for him, since he never provides examples or evidence to back up his claims. I could only find two threads where he mentions "the plan". Hilariously, in both threads he expends much effort in explaining that he DOESN'T have a problem with the plan.

In a post from 09/28/07, he posts this in reply to another member:

If you feel that following that plan is powerfeeding or overfeeding, why not say it outright?

Because if I did feel that way, I would've said that. Believe me, I don't hold back what I really mean, as some on here know from a ways back

Here's a link: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=506112&highlight=plan#post506112

A few weeks later, he posts this statement:

Just for the record, I never mentioned anything about the "Munson" plan, and it had absolutely nothing to do with my response. I don't see that plan as power feeding at all, so please stop assuming that I have a problem with it.

Here's a link: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=512823&highlight=plan#post512823

So... today he "remembers" raising concerns and being attacked for it, but in the only two threads I can find, he claims that he DOESN'T have a problem with it.

Read those threads, Duff-- everyone else saw through your passive-aggressive BSing. Now it seems that you've practically admitted it was BS! Months ago, you went out of your way to distance yourself from "assumptions" that you were raising concerns about the plan. Today, you're telling us that that was exactly what you were doing!
Which is it, Duff?

I've lost a little more respect for you now that I see you'll even lie to advance your agenda. Or maybe those examples of yours are forthcoming. Forgive me if I don't start holding my breath now.

You're something else, man. Next time you're ready to stone someone for being a hypocrite (your favorite unsubstantiated insult), you should think about that glass house you're posting from...

 

[Duff]

Uh, you're the one that gets all in a huff if I write anything at all that goes against your views/opinions/thoughts/whatever. So who has the agenda? My post was also in reference to conversations that came up before you posted your plan, so it goes back further than that. If you recall, you have even stated that you were feeding too aggressively in the past and have since changed your ways there. But the times I said anything to that extent, you went off. So feel free to spend more time going back in history to find exact quotes. My memory isn't perfect and neither is anyone else's. I also don't have time, as I have a life and don't need to spend all my time trying to be BMOC on a forum.

And you want examples about being a hypocrite?

Well, it's easier to run around nipping at someone's heels and whining at every opportunity than to do something constructive. "I got ripped apart but I don't have examples-- waaaaaah! It still lingers today-- waaaaaah!"

That's just as instigatory as other posts that you've banned members over. So where's your ban? Oh yeah, you're too cool to be on the same level as everyone else.

If I followed you from thread to thread making unsubstantiated claims and nipping at your heels, you may just feel the need to respond yourself.

Don't flatter yourself. I absolutely do not follow you around. You should see someone about that paranoia thing.

 

[Roy Munson]

Uh, you're the one that gets all in a huff if I write anything at all that goes against your views/opinions/thoughts/whatever. So who has the agenda?

Examples? Show me. When I make claims, I provide evidence like I did in my previous post. If you can't do the same, then save us all the time of reading your unsubstantiated sound-bite garbage and stop posting.

My post was also in reference to conversations that came up before you posted your plan, so it goes back further than that. If you recall, you have even stated that you were feeding too aggressively in the past and have since changed your ways there. But the times I said anything to that extent, you went off.

Proof? Then cut it out. Today you say you warned about the plan. In the post where I stated that I may have been feeding a couple of slow-starters too aggressively, you stated that you had no problem with the plan. Save your three-card monty obfuscation BS for people who can't see through your lack of debating skills. You're fooling no one here. You lied, and you think you can twist the past to cover it up. Bzzzzzzt. Try again.

So feel free to spend more time going back in history to find exact quotes. My memory isn't perfect and neither is anyone else's. I also don't have time, as I have a life and don't need to spend all my time trying to be BMOC on a forum.

Quite frankly, your memory sucks. That's why you can't ever find evidence to back up your silly little claims. There isn't any. The BMOC is a nice sound bite, but it's not enough. I know it's all you've got, but it's pretty lame. My life is none of your business. If you want me to start attacking your life, I'm game. That sound bite is irrelevant to this argument that you've lost miserably.

And you want examples about being a hypocrite?

For bleep's sake, YES! I've been asking for years! Are you calling me one now? Give me a freaking example!

That's just as instigatory as other posts that you've banned members over. So where's your ban? Oh yeah, you're too cool to be on the same level as everyone else.

More emotional, soundbite BS. Why don't you report another post of mine? I'm not acting as a mod here, and I'm not going to mod myself! Are you saying that I should ban myself? What are you on? Too cool, blah blah, blah. Maybe I'll ban us both. :grin01:

Don't flatter yourself. I absolutely do not follow you around. You should see someone about that paranoia thing.

Hah! I'll see someone about the paranoia thing the day you learn how to cogently present your side of any argument. No one has to believe me that you're my heel-nipper-- they can look at your posting history for themselves.

Our whole exchange here in this thread started because you lied. None of your sound bites or unsubstantiated insinuations can change that. You lied and you know it (now that I've refreshed your memory). If you could have just resisted the urge to give me your passive-aggressive cheap shot, this exchange wouldn't have happened. THAT is evidence of your agenda-- and you'd even lie to advance it.

 

[Joejr14]

......PWND

 

[Duff]

I have not lied. I may not have had all the details perfectly in line, but the fact is, I have raised concerns about aggressive and power feeding and every time been knocked around for it. Whether about the plan or not. And all I said, since you obviously can't read what you're diggin up, is I didn't think the plan was power feeding. That doesn't mean I didn't think it was a bit on the aggressive side. And besides, that thread you dug up wasn't about the plan. Other's assumed I was dissing the plan. And that is why I made such a point to state I didn't have an issue with the plan.

And as far as reporting, I have reported and it's been completely ignored. I didn't even get a response of any sort so is it even worth doing? Clearly you ARE above moderation as you are one of the biggest instigators here with your belittling comments aimed at those with differing opinions. And warning/banning people for doing the same is what makes you a hypocrite. Why are you still asking for proof on that?

 

[Roy Munson]

I have not lied. I may not have had all the details perfectly in line, but the fact is, I have raised concerns about aggressive and power feeding and every time been knocked around for it. Whether about the plan or not. And all I said, since you obviously can't read what you're diggin up, is I didn't think the plan was power feeding. That doesn't mean I didn't think it was a bit on the aggressive side. And besides, that thread you dug up wasn't about the plan. Other's assumed I was dissing the plan. And that is why I made such a point to state I didn't have an issue with the plan.

Sounds like Hillary Clinton and the Bosnian snipers to me. All you've demonstrated is that you may have unintentionally told an untruth. But why did you make a statement like that without KNOWING that it was fact? Therein lies the agenda. I think you were hoping that your sound bite attack would pass for truth. Too bad you got fact-checked.

And as far as reporting, I have reported and it's been completely ignored. I didn't even get a response of any sort so no point wasting my time. Clearly you ARE above moderation as you are one of the biggest instigators here with your belittling comments aimed at those with differing opinions. And warning/banning people for doing the same is what makes you a hypocrite. Why are you still asking for proof on that?

Don't blame ME if your report post was ignored. What do you want me to do, argue your case against me for you? What the heck am I supposed to do about that? Maybe the "report post" you just submitted may get better response. In it, you again entertain the UNTRUE idea that I have to be a mod every time I post. I've told you before that this is not true. I've never banned someone for instigatory or inflammatory posting without giving at least a warning first. Now, if someone comes into a thread, baits someone else with a cheap-shot lie, and the target responds, I'd give them MUCH more leeway than I would under other circumstances. Your misunderstanding of the mod/member dichotomy is what leads you to make your "hypocrite" accusation. It's the closest you've ever come to making a real argument, but I'm sorry to tell you that it's flawed. I don't have to be an acting mod in every post I make. A cop isn't a hypocrite because he enforces speed limits while on duty, but breaks them when he isn't. When he's on duty, it's his job. When he's not on duty, he's susceptible to the same consequences as everyone else (in theory). I'm not on duty every time I post. For a long time now I've considered you to be outside of my mod "jurisdiction". It wouldn't be appropriate considering our history. Of course, I've never reported any of your posts either, even when they clearly broke rules. I can handle myself without outside help.

There's only one member here that I can think of with whom I toe the line as far as the rules go. It can be demonstrated by this member's posting history that he nips at my heels and targets me with cheap shots frequently-- and facts and accuracy aren't that important to this member when he does so. Maybe this member's activity will prompt leniency in the way my line-toeing is viewed by those who have the authority to judge my actions here, and maybe not. I'll accept the consequences, whatever they are.

To clarify, being a mod doesn't mean that I'm OBLIGATED to take your crap. Clear enough?

 

[Susan]

Duff and Dean - Take it to PM if you wish to continue this.

 

[HanneysCorn]

Not really, but it seems like I have been seeing more and more of these types of threads and they all seem to have one thing in common the snakes were co-habed.

It's spring...and these kind of posts litter every cornsnake forum even those that aren't corn specific. Yes, I think some of it comes from ignorance...not knowing the ramifications of housing two un-sexed snakes together, but I think some folks just don't care. It's the old adage...well, I'll deal with a problem if and when it arises.

It's that easy so why don't people do this? People use google everyday so why not before they get their snake. Why not before they throw them both into a tank, and why not before they have eggs poping out of their snake?

We've come to be a 'fast food world'. The easy way saves time and energy. I want the information now! And I want it the easy way! I value my time above yours! You do the work so I don't have too!

I really don't think it is specific to the cornworld. We see it in everyday life...at our work, at home with our kids, in clubs and organizations we may belong to. There will always be those who take pride in being self taught and likewise always those who wish to be spoonfed. It's a selfish outlook on life as far as I am concerned, but hey, that's human nature.

The interest obviously wasn't there in the beginning to expand their knowledge when they first brought their little one(s) home, why should it be any different when suddenly there are eggs found in the viv.

Is there anything we can do or should we just keep trying to help these people knowning that they may not care enough to get two tanks rather then one? It's annoying I think.

I think at first, we all have tried to help and provide the information...for the sake of the gravid female. It's the passion we feel for the plight of the cornsnake involved. The more we see such posts, the more we realize that in reality these folks are here for the 'quick fix'. It's a one time shot...I've got a problem, I need a solution.

It's just not on forums either. I've had folks email me and say, 'I'd rather have the information from you, ya know, first hand experience' then read about it on forums'. My answer back, 'Do a search on breeding or egg incubation, I recommend several forums, give them the links, then subtly tell them, all those folks do have 'first hand experience'. I also tell them I would be doing them a dis-service to spoon feed them. They are more likely to retain knowledge they have researched themselves then just 'my way'. I explain they will also now have a permanent reference to fall back on should they require it.

Am I being mean? Well I don't think so. My time is just as valuable as theirs. Call me old fashioned, but I believe we each have to be responsible for our own actions, in this case, it's their snake, their responsibility. I know the information is out there, I've given them the direction to find that information, now it's their responsibility to research it.

Yes, I agree. I find it very annoying personally. That's why I no longer give of my time or energy to educate them after the fact. But then I find 'What will I get' threads just as annoying. If they really wanted to know, they would have taken the time to do their research or ask to be directed to where they can find the information.

I refuse to let their laziness encroach on my time. When I first got into this hobby 6 years ago, you couldn't keep me off corn specific sites. I'd spend hours researching. If I couldn't find the answer, or if I had questions about the information and wanted clarification, I would then ask for help on the forums. I personally just by pass these threads on any forum. My time is just as valuable as theirs. If I see they are getting no response, then I will insert a very nice...'do a search on ..., if you still have questions after reading all those threads, then post again. I'm sure someone can answer your 'specific' question'.

JMHO

Ruth

 

[Tula_Montage]

I refuse to let their laziness encroach on my time. When I first got into this hobby 6 years ago, you couldn't keep me off corn specific sites. I'd spend hours researching. If I couldn't find the answer, or if I had questions about the information and wanted clarification, I would then ask for help on the forums. I personally just by pass these threads on any forum. My time is just as valuable as theirs. If I see they are getting no response, then I will insert a very nice...'do a search on ..., if you still have questions after reading all those threads, then post again. I'm sure someone can answer your 'specific' question'.

JMHO

Ruth

Fantastic post Ruth...

When I got my first corns almost 3 years ago, they were cohabed in a glass tank that they both escaped from tiwce and I did nothing about it until I found cs.com. As soon as I found this site I did nothing but read and research and rectify my mistakes based on information and advice from this website.

I don't think there is any other corn specific website in the world that has helped me and thousands of others more than cs.com. It's a fantastic resource but like you say, people sometimes don't make the most of it.

 

[NFS07]

Thank you Susan.

Great posts from you two. I know when I started thinking about getting a snake thanks to Jenn I came here. She gave me the site and I started learning. I came here in May and got my snake in Aug. I wanted awhile to make sure I was ready and even now I'm still learning.

Even if I had not been given the site and still wanted a snake I would have gone to Google, typed in Corn snake, and went from there. I want to work at petstores so I can give out the correct information to new owners.

"We cohab here because we are a large company and the snakes are only here for a short amount of time. Your new snake needs a lot of room to it's self so it can grow. You need to have a single tank for each snake so they can be happy. They are not happy together. Snakes don't need to be around other snakes."

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I want to work at petstores so I can give out the correct information to new owners.

What will backfire on you is if company policy dictates that their way is the only way you are permitted to give advice or they will terminate your employment. I worked for PETsMART for 2 years while I was in college and received several reprimands (to the point where they knocked me from the animal department to a cashier) for steering customers in the correct direction. It's one thing when you're working with a small, privately owned shop...But those big corporations, depending upon local management, are real sticklers for their way is the right way. :eek1:

 

[bitsy]

I tend not to respond to individual PMs containing "How do I...?" type questions. If it's a husbandry query, then folks are safer asking in the open forum and getting a range of opinions. As we know, there are usually several ways of doing any given thing for Corns and I don't view myself as a single reliable source over others here.

I don't mind answering the occasional board post that might seem "basic" - I was there once. I'm most likely to stick my oar in if someone is particularly upset or I see [what I'd consider] wrong or dangerous advice being given.

But the posts that request you basically re-type Kathy or Don's books, are generally met with a link to Amazon if I have a spare minute.

I agree that it's symptomatic of the way society runs at 100mph, with everyone needing everything NOWNOWNOW and nobody taking (or having) the time to go and do the leg-work.

 

[snakewispera snr]

I tend not to respond to individual PMs containing "How do I...?" type questions. If it's a husbandry query, then folks are safer asking in the open forum and getting a range of opinions. As we know, there are usually several ways of doing any given thing for Corns and I don't view myself as a single reliable source over others here.

I don't mind answering the occasional board post that might seem "basic" - I was there once. I'm most likely to stick my oar in if someone is particularly upset or I see [what I'd consider] wrong or dangerous advice being given.

Snap....I read this and thought I had wrote it...LOL

 

[Sarynkitamo]

As a cornsnake newbie, I have to admit that purchasing Jasper was kind of an impulse buy. I had gone into the local pet store just to take a look around, and the person working there asked me if I wanted to hold one of the snakes. And once he let me hold one (not Jasper, since there were two in the tank) I was immediately fascinated. It was so cool to feel the snake wrapping around my hand and moving through my fingers.

I handed him back and went home. Thinking. I hopped onto google and poked around, reading care sheets and finding forums. Like this one, and the UK Corn Snake Forum. Then I went back down to the pet store and asked some questions. Like how much and what they eat. The clerk seemed knowledgeable enough, and if I had any questions he lives two houses over from mine.

Had to go convince the parents, though. Mom's attitude was 'it's your money' and my Dad, who was in the hospital at the time, was absolutely against having a snake in his house. I bought Jasper anyway. ^__^ I don't often get to be the 'bad child'.

When I went back to the pet store to get Jasper, after reading the care sheets and stuff, I said to my mom; "Corn snakes absorb heat through their bellies. They don't need that over-tank lighting." And, "They had two snakes in that cage. That's bad. I don't think he knows much about cornsnakes." The pet store didn't know everything.

I don't regret buying Jasper in the slightest, even when I told my dad I'd bought her and he was upset. I like to think I was more informed than most people who buy a corn snake for the first time. The forums helped, for when I wanted clarification on something or when I had a question for something I hadn't read about.

As to the 'zomg I has an eggs' thing presented in the beginning, personally even if I had been able to afford two snakes I wouldn't have gotten them. Bringing one into my house was enough of a risk at the time, and I wouldn't have co-habbed them anyway.

 

[NFS07]

At least you took the time to check things out though. Its the people who don't that bother me.

As a cornsnake newbie, I have to admit that purchasing Jasper was kind of an impulse buy. I had gone into the local pet store just to take a look around, and the person working there asked me if I wanted to hold one of the snakes. And once he let me hold one (not Jasper, since there were two in the tank) I was immediately fascinated. It was so cool to feel the snake wrapping around my hand and moving through my fingers.

I handed him back and went home. Thinking. I hopped onto google and poked around, reading care sheets and finding forums. Like this one, and the UK Corn Snake Forum. Then I went back down to the pet store and asked some questions. Like how much and what they eat. The clerk seemed knowledgeable enough, and if I had any questions he lives two houses over from mine.

Had to go convince the parents, though. Mom's attitude was 'it's your money' and my Dad, who was in the hospital at the time, was absolutely against having a snake in his house. I bought Jasper anyway. ^__^ I don't often get to be the 'bad child'.

When I went back to the pet store to get Jasper, after reading the care sheets and stuff, I said to my mom; "Corn snakes absorb heat through their bellies. They don't need that over-tank lighting." And, "They had two snakes in that cage. That's bad. I don't think he knows much about cornsnakes." The pet store didn't know everything.

I don't regret buying Jasper in the slightest, even when I told my dad I'd bought her and he was upset. I like to think I was more informed than most people who buy a corn snake for the first time. The forums helped, for when I wanted clarification on something or when I had a question for something I hadn't read about.

As to the 'zomg I has an eggs' thing presented in the beginning, personally even if I had been able to afford two snakes I wouldn't have gotten them. Bringing one into my house was enough of a risk at the time, and I wouldn't have co-habbed them anyway.