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Okeetee or Normal I.D

SHAKSNAKE

SHAKSNAKE

The crappy keeper!
i baught this beauty off greasycreek corn snakes earlier this month, eating good, colors are brighter and he's getting bigger already.

i've seen there's been quite the debate of whats a normal and an okeetee, i even read of some okeetee's losing their black boaders! so heres some pics of mine. hopefully you guys can I.D.

hes a 5 month abbots x locality okeetee corn snake

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From looks alone, I would call that an Okeetee. But lots of Okeetee purists think that if you don't know where it came from, you shouldn't call one an Okeetee. Miamis aren't quite the same since they are found in quite a wide area but Okeetee refers only to the snakes collected from the Okeetee Hunt Club. So if you don't know where it or it's ancestors came from, it's more accurate to say that it's a normal that looks like an Okeetee.
However, if you know that it is an Abbotts X locality Okeetee, then it does have the pedigree to be called an Okeetee.
 
Okeetees bred for the look but without the bloodlines should be called "Okeetee Phases", but I'm sure that most people serious about breeding nice Okeetees use locality blood.

Abbott's and wild line locality.. there's no question there. You have an awesome Okeetee!!

Now, I have a normal corn who looks a lot like yours. She has some sweet borders on her, and her colors are great. She is NOT out of Okeetee lines to my knowledge, so I'll call her a Normal, maybe an Okeetee Phase, but not an Okeetee. lol... ya I can see how it can be a little confusing.

I think that one of the problems is that for awhile a lot of people were calling their run of the mill normals Okeetees. Although it may seem harmless, enough of this misrepresentation hurts the corn snake industry's standard of morphs AS WELL AS the keeper. There's a much more eloquently explained sentence about this somewhere, but it basically goes like this, "if you lower your standards in order to call sub par animals something they're not, you're really lowering your own reputation, because no one is going to seek out a breeder to get a sub par example of a morph."

Another problem was that people were using the label of Okeetee as a marketing ploy. A new comer would post a picture of their "awesum new Oaaketee!!1", and the community would inform them that what they had most likely wasn't a locality Hunt Club Okeetee or an Abbott's Okeetee.

Also, I'm sure that the casual keeper cannot know how much effort is put into obtaining wild specimens, selecting them for color, and line breeding pure beautiful locality animals. I'm sure if I'd put forth this effort, I'd get a little peeved at someone putting the same name on a random -who-knows-where-it-came-from Normal.

Not all Okeetees are actually really beautiful red and orange black bordered snakes. Being a visual community though, the idea of what an "Okeetee" is has evolved over the years.

Anyway, I think your girl is pretty cool. I really like that her saddles wrap around her whole body near her neck. She has some pretty cool aberrant spots. Her colors are great, and her borders look pretty cool!

I know what you mean about the "disappearing borders". It seems like borders on the top half of a snake appear smaller as they grow.. hers look good though! I'm sure she'll look better and better as she grows.
 
Jessicat said:
Okeetees bred for the look but without the bloodlines should be called "Okeetee Phases", but I'm sure that most people serious about breeding nice Okeetees use locality blood.

Abbott's and wild line locality.. there's no question there. You have an awesome Okeetee!!

Now, I have a normal corn who looks a lot like yours. She has some sweet borders on her, and her colors are great. She is NOT out of Okeetee lines to my knowledge, so I'll call her a Normal, maybe an Okeetee Phase, but not an Okeetee. lol... ya I can see how it can be a little confusing.

I think that one of the problems is that for awhile a lot of people were calling their run of the mill normals Okeetees. Although it may seem harmless, enough of this misrepresentation hurts the corn snake industry's standard of morphs AS WELL AS the keeper. There's a much more eloquently explained sentence about this somewhere, but it basically goes like this, "if you lower your standards in order to call sub par animals something they're not, you're really lowering your own reputation, because no one is going to seek out a breeder to get a sub par example of a morph."

Another problem was that people were using the label of Okeetee as a marketing ploy. A new comer would post a picture of their "awesum new Oaaketee!!1", and the community would inform them that what they had most likely wasn't a locality Hunt Club Okeetee or an Abbott's Okeetee.

Also, I'm sure that the casual keeper cannot know how much effort is put into obtaining wild specimens, selecting them for color, and line breeding pure beautiful locality animals. I'm sure if I'd put forth this effort, I'd get a little peeved at someone putting the same name on a random -who-knows-where-it-came-from Normal.

Not all Okeetees are actually really beautiful red and orange black bordered snakes. Being a visual community though, the idea of what an "Okeetee" is has evolved over the years.

Anyway, I think your girl is pretty cool. I really like that her saddles wrap around her whole body near her neck. She has some pretty cool aberrant spots. Her colors are great, and her borders look pretty cool!

I know what you mean about the "disappearing borders". It seems like borders on the top half of a snake appear smaller as they grow.. hers look good though! I'm sure she'll look better and better as she grows.
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thanks for your help.
 
Looks (and sounds) like one too :*)...Abbotts are selectively bred Okeetees, so crossed to a locality Okeetee (do you or the breeder know which or who's locality?) generally equals Okeetee :)...At 5 months yours is coloring up real nice...

two half sib locality Okes...
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With these unless you caught them yourself within the borders of the Hunt Club your just going on the breeder's word. The actual borders themselves are cause for argument, let alone whether or not a snakes "Okeetee-ness" is lost when it crosses outside the speculative borders...Mine are from John Albrecht; I traded him a bloodred for some F1's from his collection, in a park and ride in Timoniom MD lol...His tags on his truck read "Okeetee" and some positive feedback from respected members of the community put my mind to rest on these...but...didn't catch them myself so knowing as much about their background as possible is a neccessity, as far as the "okeetee_ness" goes ;)
 
chris68 said:
032208foke.jpg

adultcorns110508001.jpg

With these unless you caught them yourself within the borders of the Hunt Club your just going on the breeder's word. The actual borders themselves are cause for argument, let alone whether or not a snakes "Okeetee-ness" is lost when it crosses outside the speculative borders...Mine are from John Albrecht; I traded him a bloodred for some F1's from his collection, in a park and ride in Timoniom MD lol...His tags on his truck read "Okeetee" and some positive feedback from respected members of the community put my mind to rest on these...but...didn't catch them myself so knowing as much about their background as possible is a neccessity, as far as the "okeetee_ness" goes ;)
Click to expand...

beautiful chris! wow! how big is he?

not sure what locality mine is from but heres a link with both parents pictured. http://greasycreekcornsnakes.com/index_files/Page876.htm

the second pair.
 
He's (2nd pic) pushing 4', the female is smaller...The parents of yours are SWEET, and yours is a nice snake to start an Okeetee project for sure :*)
 
As far as I know, the Abbott's are not pure line Okeetee's either. He outcrossed to other hypos etc to clean up the colors. All of my pure line locality Okeetees have a definite melanistic wash to them that increased with age. Washes out a lot of the colors. I could be wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure that the Abbott's were not pure line to pure line Okeetees. Pretty little snake no matter what though. I was always partial to normals myself!
 
MegF. said:
As far as I know, the Abbott's are not pure line Okeetee's either. He outcrossed to other hypos etc to clean up the colors. All of my pure line locality Okeetees have a definite melanistic wash to them that increased with age. Washes out a lot of the colors. I could be wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure that the Abbott's were not pure line to pure line Okeetees. Pretty little snake no matter what though. I was always partial to normals myself!
Click to expand...

the snake on your avatar is quite the looker!
 
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