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PLEASE HELP!

Right now the air temperature in his enclosure reads 80.
I am a hundred percent certain it is a regurgitation (I can see the tail from the pinky) but he also did poop. I was going to wait 8 days before feeding him the head (as the protocol suggests) and I wasn't planning on handling him for awhile. I know he's stressed because he has only been here about three weeks. I will for sure take him to the vet if he regurges the head. Should I even try one more time or should I just take him there now?
 
Most likely the second regurge was caused by feeding the same size meal and not waiting in between. So skip the next meal, which is essentially 8-10 days (8 is fine) and then feed just the head. My regurge protocol for hatchlings is:

Head
Head plus Shoulders (1/3)
Half Pink
Other Half
Other 2/3
Headless pink, slit or cut into two pieces
Very small whole pink, preferably cut in two

(This is a total of 4 pinks, counting the last one, nothing wasted. You can cut them with a small scissors while frozen.)

Always slit whole pinks multiple times from now on.
Don't feed while blue.
I recommend obtaining Nutribac and dusting all meals with it for several months.
I'd be feeding on a 4-5 day schedule, IF the baby is not regurging, and is out, roaming about, acting hungry, which I would expect as soon as 24 hours, but for sure by 48, with such small meals. Once he's back up to whole small pinks, you can go to 5 days.
 
Thanks Nanci. I should have said "two regurges in a row, reason unknown" is a vet trip. In this case, you have pinpointed the reason.

Yes, Carnelian, follow Nanci's recommendation.

In the tradition of cya and in general ;), I believe that anytime a person feels a trip to the reptile vet is of benefit to their own animal, even just for peace of mind, then at the least give the vet a call. I do practice what I preach :D
 
Ok I will follow that as best as I can. I did wait 4 days last time but I guess that wasn't enough. But also when you brought it up, Neal hasn't roamed around at all since I got him. He stays in a tight ball under something most of the time. I stay up pretty late (about 12-1am normally) and he still isn't active. I've only seen him be active once when I woke up (around 8). Is this normal for a baby cornsnake?
 
It's very normal if the snake is in shed. It can be normal if the snake is not. Mine almost all come out to the fronts of their bins when they are hungry, but a couple don't. But it's also normal to first explore a lot, then hide, when moved to a new home. Does he have a lot of leafy vines to hide in, when he's out? Babies feel a lot safer, when they have vines, and will come out more.
 
Ok good to know. He only has some vines right now, and spends a majority of his time there so I'll see about getting more. Thank you!
 
To expand on Nanci, who stated it so well, I sometimes think that we should emphasize that hiding is the corn snake's natural and go to position. When you read about people's snakes doing cute things and hunting, etc., it is because it is noteworthy.

Of course, it is more fun to look into a viv and see activity, but the truth is that especially in the daytime our snakes spend their lives in hiding. That's why having hides for them is so important. Also, as late as you stay up, snakes will often stay in hiding until lights out. Then the party begins.

This is not to mention that they will be hiding in shed and when digesting. Though they hide more as youngters, hiding does not end at adulthood either. Here's my adult yesterday under the aspen with one eye visible, lol. And this was when she was hungry (feeding is tonight) and ostensibly in hunting mode.

jwVmRBVl.jpg
 
Nanci said:
Most likely the second regurge was caused by feeding the same size meal and not waiting in between. So skip the next meal, which is essentially 8-10 days (8 is fine) and then feed just the head. My regurge protocol for hatchlings is:

Head
Head plus Shoulders (1/3)
Half Pink
Other Half
Other 2/3
Headless pink, slit or cut into two pieces
Very small whole pink, preferably cut in two

(This is a total of 4 pinks, counting the last one, nothing wasted. You can cut them with a small scissors while frozen.)

Always slit whole pinks multiple times from now on.
Don't feed while blue.
I recommend obtaining Nutribac and dusting all meals with it for several months.
I'd be feeding on a 4-5 day schedule, IF the baby is not regurging, and is out, roaming about, acting hungry, which I would expect as soon as 24 hours, but for sure by 48, with such small meals. Once he's back up to whole small pinks, you can go to 5 days.
Click to expand...

Nanci, this is a little off topic, but it's something I've always wondered. When cutting a pinky in half, do you cut it lengthwise or across the middle so the head and chest is on one half and the hips and tail is on the other?
I know it sounds like a ridiculous question, but I don't understand how cutting it across the middle makes it any easier to swallow since it is the same width/thickness, but cutting it lengthwise seems so messy, I wonder if the snakes would hesitate to eat something that no longer resembles a mouse in any way other than smell?
Or is the idea of cutting it not to make it easier to swallow, but simply to make it easier to digest?
 
I was finally able to get an estimate on the length of Neal (you were right he was active in the dark). He is approximately 11 inches. Should I just stick to feeding him heads like in Kathy Love's protocol because he's so small or should I slowly have him eat bigger things?
 
albertagirl said:
Nanci, this is a little off topic, but it's something I've always wondered. When cutting a pinky in half, do you cut it lengthwise or across the middle so the head and chest is on one half and the hips and tail is on the other?
I know it sounds like a ridiculous question, but I don't understand how cutting it across the middle makes it any easier to swallow since it is the same width/thickness, but cutting it lengthwise seems so messy, I wonder if the snakes would hesitate to eat something that no longer resembles a mouse in any way other than smell?
Or is the idea of cutting it not to make it easier to swallow, but simply to make it easier to digest?
Click to expand...


Cutting it makes it easier to digest, but primarily just a smaller meal than even a day old red. You can do either. Lengthwise is really messy (cut while frozen!) but I've never had a snake refuse it. Sometimes pinks are just so short and fat, and the snake is so tiny, that lengthwise makes more sense.
 
Carnelian said:
I was finally able to get an estimate on the length of Neal (you were right he was active in the dark). He is approximately 11 inches. Should I just stick to feeding him heads like in Kathy Love's protocol because he's so small or should I slowly have him eat bigger things?
Click to expand...

We can't really tell anything about his size by the length; only the weight gives any useful information. However, since he's a hatchling, it's pretty standard to start with a pink head and work up from there. After he goes through the regorge protocol, he should be back to eating whole small pinks.
 
Nanci said:
Cutting it makes it easier to digest, but primarily just a smaller meal than even a day old red. You can do either. Lengthwise is really messy (cut while frozen!) but I've never had a snake refuse it. Sometimes pinks are just so short and fat, and the snake is so tiny, that lengthwise makes more sense.
Click to expand...

Thank you Nanci. I'm currently in a slice-and-dice situation for the first time, so this is timely information. I will now stop hijacking this thread.

Carnelian, I haven't had to deal with a regurge, but I've been on this forum for a few years, first as a stalker, then as a member. The only advice I can offer is to say this: when offered advice from people like Nanci and given a protocol to follow written by people like Kathy Love... you can trust it! I would follow it to the letter and not deviate even if you think your snake can handle it. Best of luck for you and little Neal. :)
 
maybe it didn't smell right for him? I was looking after a friend's African house snake for a month, and she straight out refused any food. I did however, reading around on here and google, found that putting the pinkie in freshly boiled water, allowing it to cool until it was warm to the touch then stabbing the mouse in the head and getting some brain matter to come out; then making it move around her tank with the feeding tongs, got her [what i think anyway] hunting it and that got her eating. maybe your snake [like some dogs] has a higher prey drive and having something just laying there didn't strike him as food?
 
I did boil it for him considering that in the past he hasn't tried eating it if it wasn't boiled. But every time I feed him, I have always tried wiggling the food in front of him first. He just won't bite. I left him with it overnight (as the last three previous times he ate) but he wouldn't eat the head. There was some juice coming out from the head (making it a messier process), but he still didn't take it. Should I feed him half a pinky tonight? What should I try to prevent another regurgitation?
 
Hi Carnelian!

I'm REALLY sorry you're having to deal with a truly sucky situation. I know how it feels to have a hatchling who is ill and just won't seem to do what it needs to to get better, regardless of how hard we try! It just really sucks and there's nothing good about it except that it is a true testament to how much we love our pets and demonstrates how far we will go to try to help them to survive!

Now that I've said what I'm genuinely good at saying, I'll tell you what I don't like to say: You are doing a great job and all you can do is keep it up and be patient doing it! (See? That didn't really make anything that much better and it didn't really feel great typing it either!)

The bottom line is that with a hatchling that is regurgitating, the situation is fragile but can be worsened by well-intentioned owners who are NOT patient! I probably unintentionally killed my hatchling once by force-feeding it (it NEVER ate and was approaching 3 months without any food and was going to die anyway, so I tried!). The problem was that I didn't wait long enough in between force-feeding sessions for the poor thing to digest appropriately, at least, that's what I was told and knowing my own natural impulsivity, it seems likely because I just WANTED to save it so badly!

What I'm trying to say (painfully, at this point!) is that you probably just have to try again with another head (YUCKY PEW!!) and this time, try washing it with Dawn dishwashing liquid and then rinsing it really well. The slight scent of that particular soap (there are 2 others if you do a search) is supposed to work as an appetizer vs. what may be keeping the hatchling from eating, which may be a bad smell or taste from something dead. Since it already ate, I'm assuming it does have a good feeding response and if this doesn't work, slap-feeding it might. But I would try giving it a head washed in Dawn first since it regurged multiple times and may be too weak to try the slap-feeding with at this point.

Just make sure a couple of days have passed since your last attempt (to maximize the potential for it to be hungry) and try again with Dawn.

Patience and persistence may be what will save Neal. If not, it just means that Neal was one of those hatchlings that was never going to survive to begin with (Mother Nature can be a heartless wench when it comes to culling out the hardiest of each species! She just doesn't seem to have the maternal sense of coddling most of us humans have!). But let's HOPE not! One thing IS certain! You will never know unless you TRY! And little Neal may just MAKE it!!

You and your little sneaky one will be in my thoughts and prayers!!!
 
I will add to the thoughts and prayers that your little one eats. It may just be too soon. He may know his stomach is not ready yet. Like Axis said patience and persistence!
 
Would assist feeding help? That guy from snake bytes said it sometimes works although if the snake is being sick is probably not recommended...
 
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