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priceless ...

I opened this thread and the minute I saw this pic I thought republican conservative propaganda as well. Like so many other threads on this forum started by people who lean right... Anyway it makes sense, since elections are next week.
I have been getting these little pieces of cardboard propaganda every day in my mail box for weeks. I heard lately between the two parties republicans and democrats they have spent 3 billion dollars on these elections. That to me is far more outrageous and disgusting than one guy who may or may not be misusing a soup kitchen and can afford a phone (which if he really is homeless I don't begrudge him for having because it might help him get a job)
As distasteful as it is to me to see yet another political thread on cs at least it is propaganda that didn't cost money to distribute.
3 billion dollars. Think about it, that's enough to run a small country. Who is really abusing the taxpayer dollars?
 
Chris your right!!! We can't assume that individual is abusing the system.
We can’t assume the guy is even IN a line or that the other guy behind the first Lady is a Secret Service agent. But I do assume ……because it was posted as a parody on a commercial. And nothing else.


this photo is a political piece of propoganda that has shown how effective negative propoganda is at leading people to believe in falsehoods. ...

That’s your and I guess a few others take on it.



This whole topic is SO ridiculous...

And you REALLY hit the nail on the head with this point!!!


Now I am going to post some picture of pandas’ so we can tear that picture apart!!!

Enjoy!!
 
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To me the person adding the captions, just saw a situation on a photo that could show someone abusing the system, even if that was not the situation. Maybe the person adding the caption does not even himself believe that the guy is abusing the system. He might just have thought: so funny how this particular photo coincidentally looks like someone is abusing the system.
That's a crock. There is no evidence of wrongdoing in the photograph. Period, end of story. I don't care who wrote the caption, the FACT is that there is NOTHING within the photo0 to define the individual as an abuser of the system. Period.

The photo might be priceless because someone 'has been captured abusing the system', or because 'someone who might not even be a homeless person lining up for a free meal looks like someone abusing the system', depending on your interpretation (logic/frame of reference) and sense of humor.
The photo is priceless as a piece of propoganda...but that's about it.

The photo is a photo of an unknown person snapping a shot of a famous person in an unknown cafeteria-type location. There is nothing abusive or illegal going on in the photograph in any way shape or form.

Any percieved social system abuse is in your head. Any ideas of qwelfare fraud are in your head. Any sense that this is a homeless shelter or soup kitchen is in your head. The propoganda is in the caption.

Since we don't know why the person who added the captions thought it was funny to begin with, we can't say it is propaganda.
That's a crock, too. Propoganda is propoganda because of the content of it's message, not because of the intent of it's creator.

What I've learned in the past years about logic is, that every person has its own. There is no single true logic. Because your personal logic is so logical to you, you might think that others just have no logic, but for them their logic is as logical for them as your logic is for you. Then you have to agree to disagree indeed, but saying someone has no logic because you don't agree with/understand it, is not appropriate IMO. Every person has its own logic. What makes the difference 'in level' when it comes to debating, is if one can actually analyze the logic of another person and understand it, even if not agreed with it.
I never said someone didn't have any logic because I disagreed with them. I said some people don't understand simple logic as they themselves evidenced in this thread. This post is a perfect example of individuals using the idea of "opinion" and "humour" as a way to avoid thinking logically.

And STILL no one has shown me a single piece of evidence within the photo that definitively identifies this individual as an abuser of the system. You can't even difinitively identify the locationas a soup kitchen! That's logical to you? OK...I suppose you're welcome to your own opinion on that, but don't confuse your opinion with logic.

Logic states that this is a photograph of an unknown individual in an unknown cafeteria taking a picture of a famous person working in the kitchen. Logic also says that there are at least 2 cameras in this photo, and most likely several others there that day. Logic further says the only thing that makes this photo a "portrayal of social system abuse" is the caption. Logic says this is propoganda.

But you're welcome to have whatever opinion you'd like. Just don't confuse it with logic...
 
That's a crock. There is no evidence of wrongdoing in the photograph. Period, end of story. I don't care who wrote the caption, the FACT is that there is NOTHING within the photo0 to define the individual as an abuser of the system. Period.

The photo is priceless as a piece of propoganda...but that's about it.

The photo is a photo of an unknown person snapping a shot of a famous person in an unknown cafeteria-type location. There is nothing abusive or illegal going on in the photograph in any way shape or form.

Any percieved social system abuse is in your head. Any ideas of qwelfare fraud are in your head. Any sense that this is a homeless shelter or soup kitchen is in your head. The propoganda is in the caption.

Exactly, so for me this photo ain't funny because I immediately think of all the other possible scenario's, besides that, I don't think people in need of free meals should not be allowed to own a mobile phone. The person who added the caption either has a reference frame that makes him think there is abuse going on (in which he might be right) and he wants to show that for an unknown reason (I don't think it's a campaigner for any candidate) or that coincidence caused a funny situation. You can't know which of the two it is. But since you think propaganda is not about intention, you take way the room to think it is not propaganda.


That's a crock, too. Propoganda is propoganda because of the content of it's message, not because of the intent of it's creator.

Well, then we just disagree on that. Though this article about the different definitions of propaganda always includes the intention of the propagandist.

I never said someone didn't have any logic because I disagreed with them. I said some people don't understand simple logic as they themselves evidenced in this thread. This post is a perfect example of individuals using the idea of "opinion" and "humour" as a way to avoid thinking logically.

And STILL no one has shown me a single piece of evidence within the photo that definitively identifies this individual as an abuser of the system. You can't even difinitively identify the locationas a soup kitchen! That's logical to you? OK...I suppose you're welcome to your own opinion on that, but don't confuse your opinion with logic.

No,why is that necessary? You don't even know if the person who added the caption thinks there is.

Logic states that this is a photograph of an unknown individual in an unknown cafeteria taking a picture of a famous person working in the kitchen. Logic also says that there are at least 2 cameras in this photo, and most likely several others there that day. Logic further says the only thing that makes this photo a "portrayal of social system abuse" is the caption.

You are right, and that for some people is the fun about it; how an innocent photo could look like a "portrayal of social system abuse". Your reference frame makes you think the creator made an innocent photo into a "portrayal of social system abuse" or that the creator has a reference frame which makes him think there is abuse going on, you just don't believe the creator could have another intention. Fine, but that's in your head and probably you exclude that possibility because your logic is different.

Logic says this is propoganda. Your logic says this propaganda, that's what I mean with being able to understand there are different types of logic, compiled from experiences, definitions of the words you use and how your brain works.

But you're welcome to have whatever opinion you'd like. Just don't confuse it with logic... To me you just don't get that different people have different logic, which in the end builds different opinions. Opinion is a product of logic. People with colliding logic, probably are unable to agree on many things

(too short message)
 
I opened this thread and the minute I saw this pic I thought republican conservative propaganda as well. Like so many other threads on this forum started by people who lean right... Anyway it makes sense, since elections are next week.
I have been getting these little pieces of cardboard propaganda every day in my mail box for weeks. I heard lately between the two parties republicans and democrats they have spent 3 billion dollars on these elections. That to me is far more outrageous and disgusting than one guy who may or may not be misusing a soup kitchen and can afford a phone (which if he really is homeless I don't begrudge him for having because it might help him get a job)
As distasteful as it is to me to see yet another political thread on cs at least it is propaganda that didn't cost money to distribute.
3 billion dollars. Think about it, that's enough to run a small country. Who is really abusing the taxpayer dollars?
LOL. Like there haven't been a plethora of threads started by people leaning left...

I DO agree with you that there is WAAYYYY too much money spent on our elections by BOTH sides (and the little ones in between)... however, that is part an parcel of living in a "free society" where "buying time" to get your message across is considered "free speech" - and rightfully so!
 
(too short message)

Your above reply makes sense, even though we still disagree.

I just want to address intent and propoganda. A person can create a caption or slogan, such as this, and believe 100% in the idea they are expressing. Their intent, therefor, is jnot to distribute propoganda. But that doesn't legitimize the information being distributed, and doesn't prevent that information from being propoganda in nature.

Certainly intent CAN be hugely important, when a person knowingly disseminates false information AS propoganda. But intent is not inherant in propoganda.

I'll give you an example...few would argue that KKK merchandising, advertising, and rallying are anything but propoganda. I think 99% of us can agree that their "advertising" and "information booklets" are absolutely propoganda. That does not mean that the people putting it together and distributing are intentionally distributing propoganda. They likely believe they are educating people about some righteous truth, just as the creator of this caption could potentially feel.

But that intent does not change the fact that it is propoganda in nature, does it?
 
I knew Fred was too tall because you can not see me in the back. Why do they always put me in the back behind Fred?

Love the Fatman
 
Your above reply makes sense, even though we still disagree.

I just want to address intent and propoganda. A person can create a caption or slogan, such as this, and believe 100% in the idea they are expressing. Their intent, therefor, is jnot to distribute propoganda. But that doesn't legitimize the information being distributed, and doesn't prevent that information from being propoganda in nature.

Certainly intent CAN be hugely important, when a person knowingly disseminates false information AS propoganda. But intent is not inherant in propoganda.

I'll give you an example...few would argue that KKK merchandising, advertising, and rallying are anything but propoganda. I think 99% of us can agree that their "advertising" and "information booklets" are absolutely propoganda. That does not mean that the people putting it together and distributing are intentionally distributing propoganda. They likely believe they are educating people about some righteous truth, just as the creator of this caption could potentially feel.

But that intent does not change the fact that it is propoganda in nature, does it?

The intent of the KKK distributors is to tell people how they should think and to get members I assume. Propaganda to me ain't about bad intentions, but about the intention to influence people's opinion, mostly about political subjects, with or without the use of lies or hyperboles or any other trick to make people believe them. The goal of influencing peoples opinions might be winning the elections or get members for a club like the KKK, or just ruining another candidates reputation.

We don't know if the photographer or the creator of the captions or the OP of this thread was trying to influence peoples opinion about anything. Can you prove for any of them that they were? You said yourself that he can potentially feel he is educating people. He might not, he might just be thinking he is making a funny joke, and that's what my point is about.

We are all just using our own logic and reference framework (consciously as well as unconsciously) to explain to our selves what we see in the picture, with or without the captions. The message people get from it is different for different persons. To me the picture does not even have a clear message; it does clearly say that the guy with the cam is abusing the system, but what does the photographer/creator/poster want to tell us with it? I don't know.... maybe that is because I don't know a lot about the campaigns or previous information/propaganda spread by the candidates, but even if you do, you still have to figure out the message yourself. If it would have said:' choose candidate A because he will take care of abusers like this, stealing your tax money', it might be called propaganda, depending on the definition you use (being it a lie or not).

Since you don't think propaganda is about intention but only about the content we certainly can't agree on the subject, though even according to your definition I don't see propaganda, because I don't see what opinion this is all about.

I really like it that we always are able to respectfully debate and disagree with each other :)
 
This whole topic is SO ridiculous...

I'm still waiting for even one single, solitary piece of evidence found within the photo that tells anyone definitively that the individual taking the photo is abusing social welfare programs.

Anyone? Bueller?

All of the debate, definitions, and name-calling are a moot point. Just show me one piece of evidence, within the original photograph, that definitively points to the individual taking the photo as being a welfare abuser. One piece of evidence within the photo, and I will bow down, say I am wrong, and apologize.

But until then, this photo is a political piece of propoganda that has shown how effective negative propoganda is at leading people to believe in falsehoods.

It's no wonder some of you are so angry. I would be angry too, if I let news media and politicians do all my thinking for me...:sidestep:
In your very narrow LITERAL analysis you continue to miss the point of the pic and caption. It has nothing to do with the John Doe in the black shirt. It is about the situation portrayed. You don't have to bow down but I do accept your apology. ;) :grin01:

You also continue to say there is nothing to show it is a soup kitchen for the homeless even after I posted a link to the original article from the Tribune with the original pic. In the article it clearly states that it is a soup kitchen for the homeless. It also clearly states MO was ladling soup for those lining. It also states they were genuinely delighted by her presence, perhaps that's why he took her pic with his Blackberry. :shrugs:
 
In your very narrow LITERAL analysis you continue to miss the point of the pic and caption. It has nothing to do with the John Doe in the black shirt. It is about the situation portrayed. You don't have to bow down but I do accept your apology. ;) :grin01:
The situation portrayed in the photo is neither abusive nor illegal. Again we go back and forth saying the exact same things. That accomplishes alot.

You seem to think the situation being portrayed is horrible. Tell me, please, what it is, exactly, that you see happening in this pitcure. Not what the caption, not an article says, what you see happening in this picture.

You also continue to say there is nothing to show it is a soup kitchen for the homeless even after I posted a link to the original article from the Tribune with the original pic. In the article it clearly states that it is a soup kitchen for the homeless. It also clearly states MO was ladling soup for those lining. It also states they were genuinely delighted by her presence, perhaps that's why he took her pic with his Blackberry. :shrugs:

Yes, well that's because the link to the article is not in the picture. You can find all the background information you want on all kinds of photographs. That link is not in the picture.

So again...within the picture, what is illegal.

As well, the "soup kitchen" is privately funded, not government funded. As well, you don't have to have a Blackberry to have a camera phone, you don't have to have service for the camera to work, and tracphones come prepaid with cameras now for around $25.

So you wanna tell me again where the abuse is?:shrugs:
 
The situation portrayed in the photo is neither abusive nor illegal. Again we go back and forth saying the exact same things. That accomplishes alot.
No worries as I won't be posting much this week. I will be traveling to Denver on business.

You seem to think the situation being portrayed is horrible. Tell me, please, what it is, exactly, that you see happening in this pitcure. Not what the caption, not an article says, what you see happening in this picture.

Yes, well that's because the link to the article is not in the picture. You can find all the background information you want on all kinds of photographs. That link is not in the picture.

So again...within the picture, what is illegal.
First off (taking your literal approach) please quote where I stated it was horrible.

What is happening... an apparent homeless person unable to afford food is using what very much appears to be a Blackberry Curve or Tour. Are these things absolute no but they absolutely don't have to be. I believe the pics intent was to point out social welfare abuse in general. It was obviously NOT intended as a documentary or as literal evidence to the criminal prosecution of the John Doe in the pic.

I have to be honest. I have chuckled a few times at how you have managed to take clone of a popular hyperbolic TV commercial intended to make a point (not a literal statement). Then try to twist it into some literal lack evidential proof of whom is in the pic, the exact type of phone he has, exactly what he is doing in line, if he is homeless or a millionaire, etc etc.

The bold to me is almost laughable. You are near famous on here for saying post a link to proof. So I find the original article with the original pic. It answers the questions you posted as to who the second photographer was, what the location of the pic is used for, why the folks are standing in line, etc And your response is ignore it because it wasn't in the OP pic? All of which were somewhat a waste of time because it was never intended literally. :shrugs:

As well, the "soup kitchen" is privately funded, not government funded.
Ok for the fourth or fifth time the use of the word funded was my ERROR. What can I do to help you get past that.

As well, you don't have to have a Blackberry to have a camera phone, you don't have to have service for the camera to work, and tracphones come prepaid with cameras now for around $25.
To the 90th percentile sure I believe it to be a Blackberry. I work in the industry and I am very familiar with handsets. All major carriers require a data plan for smart phone activation. Could a homeless guy have been given a Blackberry with no service sure. Again though all of this is moot because the OP pic was not intended to be interpreted literally. It is a clone form of a popular TV hyperbole. None of which have ever been intended as literal evidence but rather to express a point. If you are unable to understand that the very use of this form negates a literal interpretation I guess I can't help you. :shrugs:

So you wanna tell me again where the abuse is?:shrugs:
Absolutely! The portrayed non-literal abuse is someone unable to afford food to the point of using a free social welfare service while at the same time being able to afford an expensive communications service that is not a necessity.

Feel free to tell me we don't know the guys name, or his income, or his phones model number, etc etc etc. All of which are irrelevant in a hyperbolic TV commercial clone used to make a situational point not a fact based attack on the specific person in the pic. :shrugs:
 
In the end, the caption is STILL nothing but assumptions specifically written to elicit an emotional response to a percieved threat. Designed to make you believe something wrongful is happening. Designed to make you angry at the percieved wrongdoing. And yes...deisigned to give you an opinion about a percieved situation.

In the end...it's still nothing more than propoganda.:shrugs:
 
In the end, the caption is STILL nothing but assumptions specifically written to elicit an emotional response to a percieved threat. Designed to make you believe something wrongful is happening. Designed to make you angry at the percieved wrongdoing. And yes...deisigned to give you an opinion about a percieved situation.

In the end...it's still nothing more than propoganda.:shrugs:

Well as propaganda goes it worked very well on you didn't it Ty. You have been in a dither for a week over the horrible implications of this JOKE.
 
Tyflier, how do you know why the captions were written? You are assuming it, it's not a fact. This is the point you are not getting..... though you want proof all the time. you cannot read the creator's mind, can you?

The only thing that is quite clear is, that the creator stronlgy suggests something wrong is happening in the picture, or at least he uses an innocent picture to 'point out' to people that abuse exists in general (which is a fact according to any poster here). We still don't know why he wants to point that out.

He could have drawn a cartoon to make his point, but he used a anonymus photo which might not be in reality what he suggests at all, but it could be exactly what is going on. Would you be angry if it was a cartoon?

He might use the photo as an 'illustration', and not as a 'caught in the act' proof of a situation. Or he really thinks the guy is abusing the system, we just don't know...
 
I almost missed a great political thread where Chris is eloquently, and unfortunately futilely, trying to elucidate people on scare tactics. Too bad the same people who find the picture funny tomorrow will turn this country in a much scarier place. :(
 
To all the people who thought the picture and captions was funny please go vote.

Only two more years and we can get a good President or maybe an another bad one.

Love the Fatman
 
To all the people who thought the picture and captions was funny please go vote.

Sooooo... people who didn't find it funny shouldn't vote? Whoops, too late - I already sent in my ballot!

Only two more years and we can get a good President or maybe an another bad one.

Another Bush?? Yikes!!!! :duck:
 
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