religion

[Emily1188]

Also diseases/epidemics...

Yep. Anything major/monumental.

 

[Daenerys]

Blergh, need edit button:

Evolution was once thought to be totally gradual, but now the idea of punctuated equilibrium is fairly prevalent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

The more intense the selection pressure, the more intense the change. A lot of change can occur over short periods of time (although the moth example is unnaturally and uncommonly short, to my knowledge).

But nothing will happen when there's no selective pressure... as in the lungs vs. pollution scenario.

(I really should be focusing on my stream biodiversity essay instead of this thread >.<)

I think we discussed punctuated equilibrium in my introductory biology class last semester....I don't know for sure though cause so much information needed to be taken in that I kind of got overwhelmed....but this wiki site sounds familiar. Definitely talked about cladogenisis. Probably will learn more about it in later, higher level classes...you know what? I really should read that free copy I got of Darwin's Origin of Species sometime.

Even though most of my life I was raised Christian, I find evolution to be a much more logical and believable theory. But, alas, I am still forced to attend church every time I visit my boyfriends house on a Sunday....to me, religion is like brainwashing. >.>

 

[Nanci]

The fact that the trees became darker so rapidly probably had to do with why the moths changed so rapidly as well. The lighter colored moths very quickly became eaten, leaving the darker colored moths to reproduce.

Right, evolution through natural selection.

 

[Outcast]

Why is it that every conversation/debate, gets turned into a debate on whether evolution is real? I personally believe in intelligent design. If evolution does happen, which I believe it does, because when something is adapting to an environmental situation, it is evolving in one way or another. Doesn't evolving mean bettering itself? even if half of a species dies of some plague, those that lived have survived because their bodies were strong enough to fight off the infection, and therefore have evolved in a way.... I believe that evolution explains how, not why. And, God can use whatever tool he/she wants to use whether is it Evolution, or Sudden creation, or whatever. Humans will never know, nor have the capacity to know everything there is to know about the universe and what caused it. In the end it is all speculation.

Just my 2 cents...again...

 

[Nanci]

*Honk Honk*

Geez, why wasn't I introduced to this as a child, when I could have absorbed it like a sponge, rather than having to _study_ it as an adult??

 

[Daenerys]

Children are so impressionable.....I'm glad I was taught it in high school at least, but now I am getting a good foundation in it in college Yay zoology majors!

 

[Nanci]

My uncle gave me copies of The Origin of Species and The Voyage of the Beagle when I was about 12, but I found them pretty daunting.

 

[wade]

When I was in Jr. High School, Charles Darwin came and spoke to the class.

 

[Daenerys]

Yeah they would probably be a tough read for someone so young. But if you can be taught the theory of evolution in a fun and intriguing way as a child it wouldn't be so bad

 

[Nanci]

That does not surprise me, Wade.

 

[Nanci]

Fortunately when I was a child it was still okay to teach evolution!! Made for some precocious questions in confirmation class, though.

 

[Outcast]

Aren't they teaching evolution in schools now? I remember when I was in high school we learned a lot about it in biology. It's when the teachers tried to say something about Intelligent Design that crap hit the fan.

 

[Daenerys]

Hahah, I never really gave much consideration to things like evolution or religion when in school. Well, until I was like 16 or 17. Thats when I really started thinking about those things. Before then, it was just life. Learn about evolution in school, go home to my Christian family. All was good.

I learned about evolution in my first year of high school in biology class, yes. The teacher gave a speech about how she was just doing her job and that this material was going to be on the test so just learn it for that reason and don't worry about if you believe it or not.

 

[Nanci]

I can't remember not knowing about evolution! But I was a pretty science-geeky child. If creationism was brought up in school, I was like "ppppffffftttt!!! Are you joking?" Now- I'll buy intelligent design of evolution.

 

[Jadie.Glitch]

Those whatever they were moths that had to turn dark to match the soot on the birch trees evolved fairly rapidly...

Chameleons can change too based on their surroundings. If that's not the case with these, then there are probably many different shades of this moth out there and when the trees turned black, most of the white ones were picked off by predators:

"...causing most of the light-coloured moths, or typica, to die off from predation."

Then when the trees started cleaning up, the black ones were getting eaten, while the lighter ones were allowed to make a comeback and begin thriving again. Just my theory, not that my theories have mattered in this discussion.

It did. Come across harsh that is. I did NOT appreciate being called insecure for being upset at the OP (and boy was I upset, but not for your reasons Ms. Glitch.), I did not appreciate your assumption that I would choose one of YOUR listed reactions, and I do not appreciate your 'lumping' of groups who may or may not belive what you do. There is a HUUUUUGE difference between the Agnostic (who don't know what to believe just yet) and the Atheist (who know very clearly what they DON'T believe in). Those two groups are as different as Islam and Catholicism. If those two religions were described "really all the same group" there would be offense taken. You OWE the respect you seem to expect, YES, even to a group that thinks differently than you. Please be aware of that. This is one of the biggest problems with religious discussion. There is always someone who thinks they are "right" and feel they have to show it, which is fundamentally disrespectful to anyone who thinks differently. Is there anything more offensive than someone telling you your faith is wrong? Probably, but none I can think of off the top of my head. The best religious discussion takes place when everyone involved REALLY makes the attempt to keep everyone at an equal level...everyone respecting each others belief and arguments. Thats why this thread was doomed and so upseting, it started with an obvious act of disrespect. ("I can prove God is real" does not leave room for another point of view)
I do appreciate the depth of your faith. I'm glad you have such a comfort. I do not share your belifes, I do not choose to discuss what I belive. Do not lump me in with other groups, you do not have the information to do so. I've put the origional poster on my ignore list, and probably shouldn't have checked this thread again, but as Lucille said these threads are like potato chips...never can put them down...

I understand where you're coming from, and I've said multiple times that my intentions have been misunderstood. I don't like where this has gone. I was (what I thought) having an open, fun debate, which turned into a big bash fest. I'm incredibly disappointed with this forum and I no longer feel welcome. I'm unsubscribing this thread because I have no problem putting the chips down.

It's funny how people who don't believe seem to lean towards thinking that the world is out to get them and when things get real, they just turn angry and defensive instead of turning to love. That's no way to live. I for one will be praying for you all, and for whatever that means to you, I know my intentions are good and that I was merely speaking my mind in a place that I had come to think that's accepted.

You can go ahead now and continue your conversation any way you'd like. I can see that I'm no longer welcome. I mistakenly thought that I was welcome to begin with.

When I was in Jr. High School, Charles Darwin came and spoke to the class.

When I'm feeling down you always make me giggle. I'd rep you if I could rep any more people today, you big weirdo .

 

[Outcast]

Now- I'll buy intelligent design of evolution.

You see, Intelligent design pleases a lot of people, but there are those out there on both sides that viciously attacks anyone who even brings up that notion.

Usually they want to believe that only their way is right and they cant even fathom that maybe both sides are wrong, but if they were put together it could be more right than they could ever imagine....

It's like two pieces of a puzzle and the kids with the pieces think that theirs is the whole thing....

 

[Daenerys]

Chameleons can change too based on their surroundings. If that's not the case with these, then there are probably many different shades of this moth out there and when the trees turned black, most of the white ones were picked off by predators:

"...causing most of the light-coloured moths, or typica, to die off from predation."

Then when the trees started cleaning up, the black ones were getting eaten, while the lighter ones were allowed to make a comeback and begin thriving again. Just my theory, not that my theories have mattered in this discussion.
.

Yes, evolution by natural selection.

 

[snakewispera snr]

I see this is still going... And you're all still wrong.... LOL
I think the real issue in this thread is which English course Mr Crazy
has subscribed to, as I would like to learn a second language in a day also.
Dave has gone from this.

i need some time to type it up

its hard to say in english

lets say atheism = false
atheism^2 = atheism * false
atheism^2 + atheism^2 = atheism^2 + atheism * false
2atheism^2 = atheism^2 + atheism * false
2atheism^2 - 2atheism * false = atheism^2 + atheism * false - 2atheism * false
2atheism^2 - 2atheism * false = atheism^2 = 2atheism^2 - atheism * false
2(atheism^2 - atheism * false) = 1(theism^2 - atheism * false)
atheism = not false

there is part some of my proof i have more but it takes long time to make it in english

To this.....
In less than a day....

changing variable names does not disprove it at all

everything i said goes with quantum theory as for it being infinitely long i do not see the math or proof behind it i have seen it added in when it is described in simple terms to make it less hard for people to understand

and where is ur proof that what u say happened anyone could have made it up

and as for everyone who is saying my english has gotten better it is because i have been using a translator and thesaurus much much more and this thread has learned me more words so i can tell my thoughts

My vote is still TROLL ...
Now if he could just come back and tell us he co-habs his snake and only separates them when he feeds them live...... :devil01:

 

[airenlow]

I think I'm a believer now. When I got home from class, there was a JW pamphlet on my door! Not the usual Watch Tower...it is an invitation to a "special Bible talk" :devil01:

No Joke!

 

[Nanci]

It's a sign, Josh!!