Reputable??

[Kokopelli]

Basically the OP asked if any knew whether the company was reputable . . . lots of people were eager to offer their judgments based on surface-level appearances, and some ridiculous details, but the answer is NO.

I really wish someone would buy that boa, though. I'm curious to have all the speculation put to rest . . .

I think that taking into consideration the fact that you signed up to this site like... a month ago, you are very eager to criticize people here.
For one, you don't have to be here if you don't like it- the discussion was civilized enough and no flaming occurred. That's what the people here decided they felt like talking about.

Your opinion is just as valid as any other's. If you want to "test the waters" be my guest, take the risk of IBD on yourself, rather than encourage someone else to do so. And if you don't like how a thread is going, you don't have to reply in it.

 

[vetusvates]

Did I miss something, or am I just old-fashioned?
What is their physical address, and why is it conspicuously absent?

Just knowing Miss Edna is in Alpine, Texas....just makes me feel all warm and cozy inside.

If it is there, and I overlooked it, then.....never mind.

 

[windowswisher]

I think that taking into consideration the fact that you signed up to this site like... a month ago, you are very eager to criticize people here.
For one, you don't have to be here if you don't like it- the discussion was civilized enough and no flaming occurred. That's what the people here decided they felt like talking about.

Your opinion is just as valid as any other's. If you want to "test the waters" be my guest, take the risk of IBD on yourself, rather than encourage someone else to do so. And if you don't like how a thread is going, you don't have to reply in it.

Kokopelli,

I have never directly criticized you, but you have me for no reason. Your contributions as a whole, from what I've seen, have been condescending, rude, and unhelpful. The majority of the board consists of awesome people seeking to share their knowledge and love of animals. I find it disappointing that endless arguing and disparaging comments have to be a part of a forum that seeks to provide quality information on a P2P basis.

I suppose since I'm new I should just shut my mouth and not voice my opinion? I didn't know that was a tenant required of me when I signed up.

Also, I'm sending them an email requesting detailed information on the boas in question myself, as you suggested. Kokpelli, I don't doubt your knowledge of snakes, and I hope you don't doubt my love of them.

I just wished you conveyed your information in a less-caustic tone; I think it would be more conducive to the board in whole, since you obviously know your stuff.

Peace, brother. I wish no will-ill on you or anyone. And yes, perhaps I shouldn't have contributed to this board, but maybe something will come of it if we can agree on peace.

 

[vetusvates]

Peace, brother. I wish no will-ill on you or anyone. And yes, perhaps I shouldn't have contributed to this board, but maybe something will come of it if we can agree on peace.

You'll be fine, Sugar. Just stick around.

 

[windowswisher]

Just sent an email inquiring as to why the boas are priced so much lower than retail, the guarantees and return policies on their animals, and whether they offered any sort of education to customers purchasing potentially dangerous exotic animals (i.e. alligators).

Hopefully we'll all know?

 

[tyflier]

Tyflier, dude, everyone here understood your point- but many also find it extremely narrow minded and very focused on the legal aspect.
No one claimed this site is illegal(unless you mean the photos, which none of us can really say true or false).
There are many things that are simply wrong but still perfectly legal- that doesn't make it right, ethical or moral. You also can't state "facts" like "these things do not indicate there's a risk"- you don't know that. In your opinion it doesn't, in other people's opinion in does- let it be.
No one put anyone on trial- a person asked a question and people -answered- based on their own opinion. Thank God we all have the ability to judge right from wrong.
People cannot help but judge certain things without experiencing them- that's a fact of life. A person can experience only -so much-, and his entire life will be dictated based upon how he judged things he did not experience first hand- for instance, do you choose a profession by first trying being a lawyer, astronaut, shoe salesman and only -then- follow your heart? no- you judge and assume what is right for you based on what you see and feel- superficial though it may be.

A keeper asked a question, people answered, and I support them completely- there are several things there that emit a bad smell to the whole thing. It -may- be just an unlucky choice of the seller, using certain pictures or choosing such a price. Or it may indicate there's something a miss.

Personally I don't encourage people to "gamble" when it comes to animals, and as far as I am concerned the points I have described earlier in this thread are excellent indications as to how safe it is to buy from a seller.

Feel free to disagree but stop trying to tell everyone they are wrong- just because they think differently doesn't automatically make them wrong mate. You say "don't judge a book by it's cover"- fine, no one argues here. But you -cannot- claim that these things don't indicate something's fishy- cause you didn't check it, and even if it didn't apply to this specific case, it could apply to another.

OK...so...according to this, than...it is perfectly legitimate for people outside of the herp community to judge us with no information, and make regulations about what we are and are not allowed to keep, breed, and sell, simply because they deserve to make those judgements based on whatever criteria they like? :shrugs:

I don't give a hoot about this particular company. Couldn't possibly care less about them. My problem is with people INSIDE the herp community judging a new business as "irresponsible" for no reason. If people withIN the community are judging us like this, how can we possibly fight the people outSIDE of the community??

THAT'S my point. Not that there isn't risk, or there isn't warnings or red flags that one needs to pay attention. You absolutely cannot show me where I said "there is no risk". I said there is no "irresponsible or illegal activity that we can see from the site". Big difference there.

And yea...I'm debating it. Because, like I said...if people within the herp community are this quick to judge a breeder or business with no legal reason, no visible reason, and nothing to back up their suspicions and accusations, we don't stand a chance against the rest of society.

Might as well sell all your snakes and reptiles right now, if that's your attitude, because the "outside world" is ALWAYS judging us. If we can't styand up for ourselves and at least show semblance of respect to the people trying to make a business out of this...we're already dead in the water.

You can think whatever you want. I don't care. But making public accusations without basis, evidence, or foundation is NEVER good...especially in a hobby/business that is already frowned upon and disliked by a good percentage of the population, and one which ALREADY has bill after bill being introduced EVERY YEAR trying to prevent us from enjoying this hobby...with no real evidence or foundation...

But maybe that's just me...:shrugs:

 

[tyflier]

Did I miss something, or am I just old-fashioned?
What is their physical address, and why is it conspicuously absent?

Just knowing Miss Edna is in Alpine, Texas....just makes me feel all warm and cozy inside.

If it is there, and I overlooked it, then.....never mind.

Meh...The lack of physical addy doesn't bother me. I don't see it on a lot of sites. City and state is usually what you get, because these facilities aren't usually open to the public. Again...not a defense of them...just my own observations...

 

[Floof]

I noticed the "stock pictures", too, and also found it... Unsettling. Not as unsettling as the 'gators and such (do I have to add an "IMO" here to ward off any attacks?), but unsettling nonetheless.

I wouldn't have found it as "unsettling" if there weren't pictures in there that obviously weren't theirs (legally or otherwise), but it's hard to look over images pulled from other websites and photocopied from books (yes, there was one that was, indeed, photocopied from a book!) and say "Oh, that's perfectly normal for a reputable breeder/dealer." I'm pretty sure this is also where Tara is coming from, at least to some extent.

Just sent an email inquiring as to why the boas are priced so much lower than retail, the guarantees and return policies on their animals, and whether they offered any sort of education to customers purchasing potentially dangerous exotic animals (i.e. alligators).

Hopefully we'll all know?

Hmm... Why didn't anyone think of this before?? Good move. I can't wait to hear their response. =)

 

[vetusvates]

Meh...The lack of physical addy doesn't bother me. I don't see it on a lot of sites. City and state is usually what you get, because these facilities aren't usually open to the public. Again...not a defense of them...just my own observations...

True enough, as I think about it, I probably wouldn't be splattering my address across the internet, either. Maybe I am a little 'visual', and old-fashioned, though. I like to think about where you and others live, though, Chris. In a perfectly innocent way, of course.

 

[tyflier]

I noticed the "stock pictures", too, and also found it... Unsettling. Not as unsettling as the 'gators and such (do I have to add an "IMO" here to ward off any attacks?), but unsettling nonetheless.

I wouldn't have found it as "unsettling" if there weren't pictures in there that obviously weren't theirs (legally or otherwise), but it's hard to look over images pulled from other websites and photocopied from books (yes, there was one that was, indeed, photocopied from a book!) and say "Oh, that's perfectly normal for a reputable breeder/dealer." I'm pretty sure this is also where Tara is coming from, at least to some extent.



Hmm... Why didn't anyone think of this before?? Good move. I can't wait to hear their response. =)

Aww, c'mon...I never attacked you or anyone else. I merely stated that there was no reason for unfounded accusations.

Finding a website "unsettling" or thinking it's better left alone, or even thinking you need to further research them before making a purchase is absolutely fine. There is noting wrong with being cautious and I never stated otherwise.

There IS something wrong with accusing a breeder of being irresponsible and/or breaking a law without any proof. That's ALL I said. Don't blow this into something it isn't. I never said anything against you or anyone else...

You're acting like I came in here guns a'blazin' sticking uip for this guy like he's my long lost brother, and the reality is I never did any such thing. The only "attacks" in this thread were leveled against the owner of that website, not you...

 

[Floof]

Aww, c'mon...I never attacked you or anyone else. I merely stated that there was no reason for unfounded accusations.

Finding a website "unsettling" or thinking it's better left alone, or even thinking you need to further research them before making a purchase is absolutely fine. There is noting wrong with being cautious and I never stated otherwise.

There IS something wrong with accusing a breeder of being irresponsible and/or breaking a law without any proof. That's ALL I said. Don't blow this into something it isn't. I never said anything against you or anyone else...

You're acting like I came in here guns a'blazin' sticking uip for this guy like he's my long lost brother, and the reality is I never did any such thing. The only "attacks" in this thread were leveled against the owner of that website, not you...

Looks like I still haven't learned when to keep my thoughts to myself...

You may not intend to "attack," but it certainly feels that way--just like my "accusation" that wasn't meant to be an accusation of any sort. And you certainly did come in "guns a'blazin'", even if it wasn't to stick up for this seller. If you look back, to anyone who isn't very used to the style of debate you're obviously well-versed in, your superbly extensive rebuttle and dissection of the simplest of comments does, indeed, feel a LOT like an attack on the speaker of the instigating comment. (At least, it does to me--I certainly can't speak for everyone.) I realize, now, that is not your intent... But, it's like my original post. My intent wasn't to sound accusatory toward the breeder in question, yet even I recognize that it mistakenly came out as such.

You know, I almost replied to something you mentioned earlier but had decided against it. I may as well, though.

If people withIN the community are judging us like this, how can we possibly fight the people outSIDE of the community??

This is all well and good. And certainly agreeable. But, at the same time, how can we fight people OUTside the community when people INside the community are fighting amongst themselves about what "should" and "should not" be said? (Or, as here, about the "right" and "wrong" ways to say things... Since you've agreed with one or two of my points while disagreeing with my poor wording all in the same breath...)

Sorry if that comment bothered you. I guess I can be a bit of a snotty hothead sometimes. =P

 

[tyflier]

Floof...do yourself a favor, go back and read the thread again. I think you wil see that your first 2 responses to this topic were both statements of distrust of the breeder because they breed large reptiles. Your second post actually called them irresponsible, which may not be an "attack" per se...but it is without a duobt an unfounded accusation.

And I didn't reply until you MADE that accusation. Oh, and what was that scathing, guns blazing, attacking, demonic, condescending post that I made? Oh yea...I remember...

What's irresponsible about breeding American Alligators? What's irresponsible about breeding retics, burms, or 'condas? There is nothing irresponsible about bvreeding them OR selling them.

It is solely and entirely up to the buyer to nknow what they are purchasing. Breeders are in it for 2 reasons...they love animals and they want to make a few bucks. These animals are not illegal so what is irresponsible about breeding and selling them?

Well, now...that really doesn't look, sound, or feel like an attack at all. Really it's just a simple statement...breeding those animals is not irresponsible.

So you can claim to be attacked all you want but the proof is in the pudding. I never said a nasty thing to you in this topic or any other. If you're so senstive that the above quote is a personal attack to you, than you probably shouldn't participate in any online forums. There is nothing even remotely attacking in my post in this topic...

 

[tyflier]

This is all well and good. And certainly agreeable. But, at the same time, how can we fight people OUTside the community when people INside the community are fighting amongst themselves about what "should" and "should not" be said? (Or, as here, about the "right" and "wrong" ways to say things... Since you've agreed with one or two of my points while disagreeing with my poor wording all in the same breath...)

Sorry if that comment bothered you. I guess I can be a bit of a snotty hothead sometimes. =P

Bottom line, Floof...this post from you is WAY more condescending than ANYTHING I wrote in this thread. I'm done with you.

 

[Kokopelli]

Kokopelli,

I have never directly criticized you, but you have me for no reason. Your contributions as a whole, from what I've seen, have been condescending, rude, and unhelpful. The majority of the board consists of awesome people seeking to share their knowledge and love of animals. I find it disappointing that endless arguing and disparaging comments have to be a part of a forum that seeks to provide quality information on a P2P basis.

I suppose since I'm new I should just shut my mouth and not voice my opinion? I didn't know that was a tenant required of me when I signed up.

Also, I'm sending them an email requesting detailed information on the boas in question myself, as you suggested. Kokpelli, I don't doubt your knowledge of snakes, and I hope you don't doubt my love of them.

I just wished you conveyed your information in a less-caustic tone; I think it would be more conducive to the board in whole, since you obviously know your stuff.

Peace, brother. I wish no will-ill on you or anyone. And yes, perhaps I shouldn't have contributed to this board, but maybe something will come of it if we can agree on peace.

Allow me to correct any impression I may have left on you. I have nothing against you voicing out your opinion, none at all, you are also invited to check out other threads and see that on quite a few occasions I actually defended new people here.
I don't consider myself better than you, heck, for all I know you might know more about snakes than I do... being here for a longer period of time doesn't make me your superior.

I do believe though that if I would have signed in into a new community and voiced out an opinion against how members in it choose to conduct themselves... that would have been rude. Earlier you said that many people here supposedly judge without checking things... don't you think that by stating that you did exactly the same?
You don't know the interaction here, or the people involved... nor does it make sense to criticize people for "arguing endlessly"- it's their choice, they break no rules, and for all you know, maybe that's how things go down here. (by the way, there are many political threads here, and religious ones, very sensitive that drag on many different opinions, some of which causing a bit of an uproar- but that's just part of how people interact here)

Another thing I noticed is that it's very easy to attach a certain "tone" to a post, but with all honesty, it's quite possible to be wrong about the tone you perceive. Always remember that though to you a post can seem offensive at first, if you re-read it you can interpret it in different tones as well.

I will be the first to apologize if you felt antagonized, I don't know you, I don't know what you're about.

As I try to detach any perception I may have about a person's "tone" from his post, I rely on facts...
I personally saw two posts you participated in- one of which was quick to claim I was condescending because I voiced an opinion which opposes your liking of two headed reptiles... and the other here where you took the liberty to pretty much tell everyone in this thread that they were "arguing endlessly" and that you are disappointed that this is how the community functions- I don't know, to me, that looks very out of place and yes, rude.

If the argument revolved around you, or you felt mistreated, you can and are more than welcome to voice it out, and it would make sense in my eyes.
But to take the liberty to criticize everyone(and I can't see how saying everyone's arguing pointlessly is not a criticism)... that's presumptuous.

So yes, you're new. No, it doesn't mean you need to keep your mouth shut, but yes, it does mean that based on your limited time here, making such statements is out of place, at least in my eyes.
As for my contribution to the forums being only condescending... well, you are quite welcome to your opinion, and I am not saying it in a condescending tone either- I can't argue with how you perceive things. I do know at least a couple of people who think differently, and that's about it really.

I hope you will take the time to stay, and enjoy a great community.

 

[Kokopelli]

OK...so...according to this, than...it is perfectly legitimate for people outside of the herp community to judge us with no information, and make regulations about what we are and are not allowed to keep, breed, and sell, simply because they deserve to make those judgements based on whatever criteria they like? :shrugs:

I don't give a hoot about this particular company. Couldn't possibly care less about them. My problem is with people INSIDE the herp community judging a new business as "irresponsible" for no reason. If people withIN the community are judging us like this, how can we possibly fight the people outSIDE of the community??

THAT'S my point. Not that there isn't risk, or there isn't warnings or red flags that one needs to pay attention. You absolutely cannot show me where I said "there is no risk". I said there is no "irresponsible or illegal activity that we can see from the site". Big difference there.

And yea...I'm debating it. Because, like I said...if people within the herp community are this quick to judge a breeder or business with no legal reason, no visible reason, and nothing to back up their suspicions and accusations, we don't stand a chance against the rest of society.

Might as well sell all your snakes and reptiles right now, if that's your attitude, because the "outside world" is ALWAYS judging us. If we can't styand up for ourselves and at least show semblance of respect to the people trying to make a business out of this...we're already dead in the water.

You can think whatever you want. I don't care. But making public accusations without basis, evidence, or foundation is NEVER good...especially in a hobby/business that is already frowned upon and disliked by a good percentage of the population, and one which ALREADY has bill after bill being introduced EVERY YEAR trying to prevent us from enjoying this hobby...with no real evidence or foundation...

But maybe that's just me...:shrugs:

Well if it's alright with you I'll hang on to my snakes

Seriously though, I think you diverted the thread into a legal discussion when none of it was involved to begin with.
You admitted yourself in your post that those things -can- potentially be red flags... A person wanted people's advice... and experienced keepers who saw these potential red flags pointed it out... that's about it.

I wouldn't have answered "I don't recommend them", I just posted what caused me to feel ill at ease with it...

Personally I have never accused them of doing anything illegal.

I also know that every human being throughout his life will have to make decisions based on limited information, or experience, because let's face it, resources and time are not unlimited.

Perhaps I didn't keep track of the thread properly, but I didn't see anyone saying that they are 100% crooks- simply pointed out the reasons why they look unreliable in their eyes.

Does it reflect reality? Maybe yes, maybe no. Our choices effect us, they chose a certain tactic, and this is one of it's consequences...

If I chose to advertise myself in some way, I would have to deal with the consequences of the results... This is true in every field and business and though I would like to be idealistic and think snakes are different... at the end of the day it's still a seller- consumer interaction to a degree, and I don't see a reason as to why should it naturally be different. I can try and encourage people to try and think differently, but I wouldn't say that this behavior was unexpected.

 

[tyflier]

Well if it's alright with you I'll hang on to my snakes

Fine by me. You don't live in the US, so you probably don't see as much rampant anti-reptile legislation as I do...

Seriously though, I think you diverted the thread into a legal discussion when none of it was involved to begin with.
You admitted yourself in your post that those things -can- potentially be red flags... A person wanted people's advice... and experienced keepers who saw these potential red flags pointed it out... that's about it.

Show me where I diverted the thread. I simply stated, quite accurately, I might add, that it is unfair to accuse the owners of that site of being irresponsible based on the type of animals they breed, or as "thieves" without evidence. Since that is what was being done in this topic, I fail to see how addressing that is "diverting the thread". I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I wouldn't have answered "I don't recommend them", I just posted what caused me to feel ill at ease with it...

Personally I have never accused them of doing anything illegal.

Wasn't ever really about you. I didn't take any of your posts as accusatory, and never addressed you as much. The conversation with you was centered around the price of the boa, and procedures for acquiring new boas. We agree that caution should be used, regardless of whom you purchase. We disagree that a low price is an autmatic "don't buy it". So what? That's not that big of a disagreement, especially between the two of us, right?

I also know that every human being throughout his life will have to make decisions based on limited information, or experience, because let's face it, resources and time are not unlimited.

True. But...evidence of wrongdoing is beneficial when publicly accusing someone of such wrongdoing. I take no issue whatsoever with people saying, "I don't know. Seems like a red flag" or "I wouldn't buy from them. I get a bad feeling" or "Nah...their site gives me a bad feeling. I wouldn't buy from them." All of those are perfectly legitimate and acceptable opinions to have based on what's available and what is seen on the website.

What is NOT accetable(to me) is to say "No. They are irresponsible because they breed gators and big pythons" or "No. They are thieves because they stole images"(without evidence) or "They didn't take the pictures, so they MUST be crooked". Those are accusations.

Do you see the difference? And I'm not being sarcastic in asking that because obviouosly everyone doesn't see the difference. I don't have any issue with people stating their opinions about a company based on what they see or experience. I DO have a problem with accusations of irresponsibility and illegal activity without evidence. THAT is my problem in this thread.

Perhaps I didn't keep track of the thread properly, but I didn't see anyone saying that they are 100% crooks- simply pointed out the reasons why they look unreliable in their eyes.

I didn't see anyone say they were crooks. But I saw someone say "They stole that image". That's an accusation no matter how you slice and there is simply no evidence to support it. I also saw someone say "I can't make sense of a ersponsible breeder selling gators, pythons and anacondas". That's a backwards way of saying that breeding those animals is irresponsible and frankly...it isn't. Not in that simple form, and there is NOTHING on the site to indicate irresponsible behavior. It's another completely uinfounded accusation.

Does it reflect reality? Maybe yes, maybe no. Our choices effect us, they chose a certain tactic, and this is one of it's consequences...

Not reall sure what you mean...

If I chose to advertise myself in some way, I would have to deal with the consequences of the results... This is true in every field and business and though I would like to be idealistic and think snakes are different... at the end of the day it's still a seller- consumer interaction to a degree, and I don't see a reason as to why should it naturally be different. I can try and encourage people to try and think differently, but I wouldn't say that this behavior was unexpected.

Sure, you wuold have to deal with people looking badly at you for your advertising choices. But you do NOT have to sit by and let them accuse you, publicly of being a thief without evidence. It's called "liable" in this country.

IMO, the bottom line is that if you look around the site, it appears to be professionaly built, with competitive prices, a long list of care sheets, and short list of resources for you to use as necessary in the acquiring and care for an exotic reptile. In other words...by appearances alone there is NOTHING to indicate ANY irresponsible behavior or illegal activities by the owners of the site. So why accuse them of such? Certainly you can say you don't trust them, you don't like them, or you think people should shop elsewhere. But why accuse them of actual legal wrongdoing and irresponsibility instead of simply stating your opinion? :shrugs:

 

[Kokopelli]

Fine by me. You don't live in the US, so you probably don't see as much rampant anti-reptile legislation as I do...


Show me where I diverted the thread. I simply stated, quite accurately, I might add, that it is unfair to accuse the owners of that site of being irresponsible based on the type of animals they breed, or as "thieves" without evidence. Since that is what was being done in this topic, I fail to see how addressing that is "diverting the thread". I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that.


Wasn't ever really about you. I didn't take any of your posts as accusatory, and never addressed you as much. The conversation with you was centered around the price of the boa, and procedures for acquiring new boas. We agree that caution should be used, regardless of whom you purchase. We disagree that a low price is an autmatic "don't buy it". So what? That's not that big of a disagreement, especially between the two of us, right?


True. But...evidence of wrongdoing is beneficial when publicly accusing someone of such wrongdoing. I take no issue whatsoever with people saying, "I don't know. Seems like a red flag" or "I wouldn't buy from them. I get a bad feeling" or "Nah...their site gives me a bad feeling. I wouldn't buy from them." All of those are perfectly legitimate and acceptable opinions to have based on what's available and what is seen on the website.

What is NOT accetable(to me) is to say "No. They are irresponsible because they breed gators and big pythons" or "No. They are thieves because they stole images"(without evidence) or "They didn't take the pictures, so they MUST be crooked". Those are accusations.

Do you see the difference? And I'm not being sarcastic in asking that because obviouosly everyone doesn't see the difference. I don't have any issue with people stating their opinions about a company based on what they see or experience. I DO have a problem with accusations of irresponsibility and illegal activity without evidence. THAT is my problem in this thread.


I didn't see anyone say they were crooks. But I saw someone say "They stole that image". That's an accusation no matter how you slice and there is simply no evidence to support it. I also saw someone say "I can't make sense of a ersponsible breeder selling gators, pythons and anacondas". That's a backwards way of saying that breeding those animals is irresponsible and frankly...it isn't. Not in that simple form, and there is NOTHING on the site to indicate irresponsible behavior. It's another completely uinfounded accusation.


Not reall sure what you mean...


Sure, you wuold have to deal with people looking badly at you for your advertising choices. But you do NOT have to sit by and let them accuse you, publicly of being a thief without evidence. It's called "liable" in this country.

IMO, the bottom line is that if you look around the site, it appears to be professionaly built, with competitive prices, a long list of care sheets, and short list of resources for you to use as necessary in the acquiring and care for an exotic reptile. In other words...by appearances alone there is NOTHING to indicate ANY irresponsible behavior or illegal activities by the owners of the site. So why accuse them of such? Certainly you can say you don't trust them, you don't like them, or you think people should shop elsewhere. But why accuse them of actual legal wrongdoing and irresponsibility instead of simply stating your opinion? :shrugs:

I agree that there's no basis to claim they are irresponsible or doing anything illegal.
Let me just add though that breeding and selling certain animals can be very hazardous- I suppose people will always feel a reflex of caution when they see people make the process of buying gators or venomous snakes so easy... But as you said, we do not know how they -actually- work so... yeah, I understand your opint

 

[tyflier]

I agree that there's no basis to claim they are irresponsible or doing anything illegal.
Let me just add though that breeding and selling certain animals can be very hazardous- I suppose people will always feel a reflex of caution when they see people make the process of buying gators or venomous snakes so easy... But as you said, we do not know how they -actually- work so... yeah, I understand your opint

Thank you for that.

I agree that it can make one "cringe" when it seems all too easy to acquire something dangerous. But the reality is, as I said earlier, there are very reputable breeders, some even members in good standing of this forum, that breed and sell large pythons, alligator snappers, elapids, rattlesnakes, and a myriad of other "dangerous" animals, and visiting their site would give you the impression that it would be easy. I can assure you...it is not.

But think we would be just as upset if it was nearly impossible to purchase these animals as well. Imagine how you would feel, with all of your boa experience, if a breeder required you to go through their own, personal permitting process, classroom instruction on husbandry, and singn a fornmal contract of care before alowing you to purchase a boa. That would rightly piss you off, wouldn't it?

Ultimately...not everyone that buys 'tics and burms is a neophyte. Especially when it's a $3500 pradox albino super tiger...

I believe that by and large the people purchasing these animals know what they are getting into. I think that the idea of neophytes and clueless kids running out and buying large snakes because they are cool is blown out of proportion to the reality of it. I don't have any evidence of it, certainly, but it seems to me if the problem was that rampant, it would be a more globaly recognized issue, rather than simply something you read about by ranting members of a reptile forum...

 

[Kokopelli]

I don't know if I would be too angry if there actually was a place in which you can learn husbandry... I think that for some people it can be good.
I also personally believe that the freedom to buy large pythons isn't worth the life of the baby who may die if God forbid a retic got loose and attacked.

Some of these animals really are just too dangerous, and too easily obtainable. But it's a very thin line and not everyone would appreciate having their rights limited.

Meh, I guess I'd rather not go into a big debate like that. I am just too tired at the moment

 

[windowswisher]

Their response:

Hello Becca,

Thank you for visiting our site. The answers to your questions are as follows. We can only speak to why our reptiles are so inexpensive. They are young, and very healthy and essentially providing them to the public this way means we do not have to keep stock of reptiles or care for them until they are sold. So we don’t have to raise our costs to cover the costs of taking care of several different reptiles.

Next, we do have a live guarantee on all of our reptiles except amphibians. We guarantee live arrival and stay that way as long as guidelines are followed (as expressed in out shipping and guarantee page) for the first 4 days. After that it is up to the customer. If under 4 days the reptiles passes, again guidelines have to be met and a credit will be given for next purchase.

As far as education....We will gladly provide a care sheet for any of our reptiles sold here. However we do not take responsibility for a customer ordering a potentially dangerous reptile. It is the responsibility of the customer to research the reptiles he/she would like to purchase, find out the potential dangers, as well as check local and state laws to see if illegal to own.

Hope this answers your questions. Thank you again,

PrimEval Pets Admin
Visit our website at www.primevalpets.com
"Where we treat our reptiles like family"