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Salmon Ghost

That champagne is awesome! love it!

oh, and I titled this thread salmon ghost b/c of one that Walter has listed as such and I'm in love with that snake.
 
Great Strawberry examples. It appears that you can have both homo Hypo Straw and Hypo/ het Straw within the clutch. Were there any Straw/het Hypo ?

Thanks! As, I think, someone said earlier, I don't believe (so far) that strawberry or hypo A is more dominant than the other. They're simply allelic so they will take on an intermediate appearance when (+straw)(+hypo-A) as opposed to (+straw)(+straw) or (+hypo-A)(+hypo-A).
i.e. no 'hets' exist as long as that specific allele is double gened for one of the above traits.
 
Thanks! As, I think, someone said earlier, I don't believe (so far) that strawberry or hypo A is more dominant than the other. They're simply allelic so they will take on an intermediate appearance when (+straw)(+hypo-A) as opposed to (+straw)(+straw) or (+hypo-A)(+hypo-A).
i.e. no 'hets' exist as long as that specific allele is double gened for one of the above traits.

Thank Tara! I developed a brain cramp!:D
 
The Corals that Jeff produces are variable too, the females in particular develop much less pink.[/B]

My female is quite as intense pink as my male, I'd say about 85% as intense looking at the most intense parts. But Jeff told me the line gets better and better each generation anyway.

Maybe I'm gonna buy me a microscope to take a look at my ghosts scales to see if they are homo hypo and/or strawberry.
 
This breeding and other RedCoat x Non-RedCoat breedings is beginning to make me believe that RedCoat is co-dominant like Diffused, and perhaps even variable like Diffused. Being co-dominant, means that you can see the effects of the gene as het, like Diffused. A Het RedCoat has a slight coat of red color and homo RedCoat are the intense RedCoats I have posted photos of.

I believe Champagnes are homo RedCoat.

Ok adds to the confusion lol If is co-dom like this how much red would you say is a slight coat? I personally do think the gene is more apparent when combined with amel and ultramel from what I have seen here. Is just a guess since I am new with the gene. So if this is all the case about it being co-dom it would make the gene far more prevailant in the gene pool. Such as the breeding I did with it last year to an anery with no apparent signs of the gene. I have three breedings with the male this year an anery stripe, a pure hunt club, and a normal het diffused, sk, amel to compare results and outcomes of red in the offspring. With last years clutch none of the snow and aneries are showing signs of even het with the gene while all the amels, the ultramel and some of the normals have varrying degrees of red to them. I am going to borrow pics of these to make the comparisons with for now. First up is the ultramel female, then amel male, then thier sisters of the clutch. So am I way off base on this or am I looking at something else?
 

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Here is the picture of the normal in the third picture at 2 months old November 10th 2011
IMG_2233.jpg


Here is a picture of her the other day March 10th 2012
IMG_2858.jpg
 
I did Dave, back on page 1 of this thread. Marsha (Poppycorns) has the best for comparison.
 
Marcia also has apparently ID'ed 3 or 4 different "red masque" mutations, just to make things more complicated. Don S sez she'd be a great mind to pick but is very busy with life...
 
Thanks Tara, I'm a little slow on the uptake of every twist n turn in this thread. For some reason I thought Neon had something to do with those patternless ones with a line of intense bright color running down the center of backs. That is indeed a bright snake. Thanks again, dp
 
Not to confuse things even more, but I have a line of really pink ghost corns (my specters) that originated with Kathy Love. Terri, Chuck, and a few other breeders have some of my stock. I've also traded some hatchlings last year to Jim Stelpflug for a juvenile female salmon ghost to cross them with. Neither Jim nor Jeff Galewood thought they were the same, as mine seem to have more saturated colors and BLACK borders. I've already bred them to strawberry motley, hypo bloodred, fluorescent, silverqueen, and a sunkissed that I believe is homo for hypo-A. INteresting results to say the least.
 
The specters are my favorites of all of my corns. I'm trying to focus more on them than the salmon and strawberry projects I had planned since there's so much confusion over what is and isn't compatible and it takes so long for the strawberries to color up. While specter genetics aren't completely understood yet, at least you've got results to show they aren't the same as strawberries (and are apparently homozygous for hypo). I also like how much color they show even as juveniles.
IMG_9052.jpg

IMG_9056.jpg
 
The specters are my favorites of all of my corns. I'm trying to focus more on them than the salmon and strawberry projects I had planned since there's so much confusion over what is and isn't compatible and it takes so long for the strawberries to color up. While specter genetics aren't completely understood yet, at least you've got results to show they aren't the same as strawberries (and are apparently homozygous for hypo). I also like how much color they show even as juveniles.
IMG_9052.jpg

IMG_9056.jpg


I love that project you have going on.
 
When Walter said that Don S's Coral Snow proved to be homo for Hypo, I wondered how he knew. I assume he bred it to a Hypo, or recovered a Hypo from hets he created, but this would not prove that Don S's Coral Snow was a Hypo Snow, Hypo/Straw Snow or Straw Snow. The production of a Hypo only proves than it is one of the three possibilities.

If I were producing Ghost that I knew were homo for Strawberry, I would call them Salmon Ghost, and Snows that were homo for Strawberry Salmon Snows, which would tell the buyer, the genetics behind the morph. Obviously selective breeding has been done with the Salmon line to make them pinker than a standard Straw Anery. I think in this case, the selective breeding has brought together, Homo Straw Anery and Red Mask and Red Coat.

It seems the best of the best Salmons have all of these traits, which is why they are so pink and so desirable. I also think that Salmon is just as descriptive of the extreme pink on Salmon Snows and Salmon Ghost as coral is.

After reading this over and over and thinking more about it, I am now starting to think this is the case, (that the RedCoat trait is the cause of the deep saturation of pink coloration)

First, I would like to retract my saying that Don's Coral was homo HYPO A. It still very well may be, but could also be a Hypo/Straw.

I've come to this conclusion due to these reasons:

1) that Don's Corals came from Jim, (which I didn't know until this thread)
2) I figured it to be homo HYPO A only, due to the fact I was under the assumtion that the Stawberry trait was the cause of the deep pink saturation of the Salmons and seeing Don's Coral does not display that deep saturation I didn't think that it could be homo for Stawberry.
Also because I have recoverd Hypos or Hypo/Straws from the F2 animals descendant of Don's Coral Snow.......BUT, now not sure if it's one or both.

It seems to make alot more sense now about the RedCoat playing a factor in these deep pinks on the Salmons, seeing the RedCoat trait pretty much applies a transparent RED wash of color over everything that is already there, which deepens the overall coloration.

Something else I've noticed with the RedCoats, is that the red coloration is even present on the belly and covering quite a bit of the belly, if not all.
My Salmon Snow has the same pink coloration on a little more than of her belly as on her dorasl/latteral and my Salmon Ghost has the same pink coloration over all of her belly.

This presence of pink belly color is leading me more to believe in the theory of the RedCoat being a player in the Salmon line.

The Corals (Snow & Ghost) that I held back that came from Don's Coral has absolutly NO pink coloration on their bellies, plus they do not display the deep saturation as the Salmons. Again, this is not an attempt to bash Don's Coral(s), it's mearly being mentioned to differ what I'm seeing between both lines. Don has always/still does produce some awesome Coral Snows. Hell, why do you think I asked for a loaner from him.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
The name Salmon was coined by Jim from SW Reptiles; I believe he is where it all started; if you don't count the fact that he got his original animals from Don Soderberg's Coral line. Strawberry is part of JMG's animals. I've proven that out by test breeding. I do believe there is something else other than strict line breeding going on though. My guess is something along the lines of Redcoat or Neon in addition to Hypo and Strawberry breeding for that hypothesis will start this season.

Terri

Ok, I have effectively wasted 1/2 my day reading all I could on all the red/pink genes. How have you definitively tested and proven Strawberry is in the JMG line? I know for sure hypo A is in the JMG Salmon line via our breeding results. Just curious is all.

dc
 
Ok, I have effectively wasted 1/2 my day reading all I could on all the red/pink genes. How have you definitively tested and proven Strawberry is in the JMG line? I know for sure hypo A is in the JMG Salmon line via our breeding results. Just curious is all.

dc

good luck extracting pure strawberry from them, just sayin.....unless of course it's bred to a pure real strawberry, in which case you'll hit (smash into) 50% of the strawberry target, but most likely because 50% of the parents is strawberry. Welcome to polygenetics 101.
 
good luck extracting pure strawberry from them, just sayin.....unless of course it's bred to a pure real strawberry, in which case you'll hit (smash into) 50% of the strawberry target, but most likely because 50% of the parents is strawberry. Welcome to polygenetics 101.

I am not trying to prove strawberry is in the mix of the JMG corals/salmons, I personally don't think it is. Like I said on a separate thread, I think it is a line bred trait. However, Terri stated she had proven it was in there via breeding trals so I wondered exactly what she had done to prove it out.

Truthfully, I could care less what is in there, they are cool looking and why worry about how to try and recreate it when I already have great animals in which to keep line breeding and improve upon.

dc
 
The Corals (Snow & Ghost) that I held back that came from Don's Coral has absolutly NO pink coloration on their bellies, plus they do not display the deep saturation as the Salmons. Again, this is not an attempt to bash Don's Coral(s), it's mearly being mentioned to differ what I'm seeing between both lines. Don has always/still does produce some awesome Coral Snows. Hell, why do you think I asked for a loaner from him.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

Walter, what were the parents of those pink aneries you produced a few years back? Did you get more than one brood of them at that time - or since? What was the proportion of phenotypes in those productions? I am not sure if those were the same as the ones you are referring to above, but i remember seeing some nice looking pink aneries you produced.



dc
 
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