Salmon Snow...Coral Snow.Difference?

[NickP961]

I was just curious if anyone ever proved that they were strawberry, or hypo, or what they were, or if it will ever be found out? Also, on the subject of salmon snows and coral snows, could you imagine them in say Tessera? That'd be amazing.

 

[SnakeAround]

I do have the ingredients......

 

[chris68]

They're a product of a few different things, with strawberry and/or a "red factor" combining with line breeding results to perfect the "look". What they may "consist" of probably varies depending on what line they are from. Here's some "pink" stuff from the Tequila Sunrise line

 

[SnakeAround]

My very early '11 salmon snow male, bred by JMG Reptile is expected to be a snow genetically, but line bred. However, the line has not been tested against strawberry.

Same goes for my '10 coral ghost male and female bred by JMG too:

male

female

I was told by an experienced breeder they don't look like strawberry ghosts, and from the pics posted in the post above that seems very true. I think they might have some red factor going on though. JMG said the pink acts quite dominant but just is a line breeding thing, not a mutant gene.

 

[Jaded_Heart]

I thought a coral snow was just homo for amel, hypo, and anery?

 

[Tara80]

That's what I've heard too Barbara. I believe the current line of thinking is that Red Factor/Red Coat is dom. but will compound on itself when bred back-to-back; turning more brilliant. Much of the time you can see the Red from this gene bleed through into the belly.

 

[SnakeAround]

Exactly, Jeff said the red in these ghosts was a shortcut to redden his extreme red (hypo?) line and even F1 of an outcross is very pink.

 

[NickP961]

I do have the ingredients......

You should definitely aim for Salmon Snow Tessera's. They would look so cool.




And thanks everyone for responding! I just wasn't sure if they were the strawberry gene or not. Btw they are beautiful snakes you have there!

 

[SnakeAround]

I think they are gonna be on my project list actually!

 

[ceduke]

I thought a coral snow was just homo for amel, hypo, and anery?

I was told that my coral is het hypo, not homo, so I don't think this is always the case.

 

[Susan]

I thought a coral snow was just homo for amel, hypo, and anery?

Once upon a time, that was the general consensus (the coral coloration was caused by being homo hypo A). However, that has been proven to be an incorrect assessment. Not all hypo snows have an increased coral coloration and not all coral snows are homo hypo. Line breeding is a large part of the creation of the colorful snows. You also have to take into consideration the multiple types/lines of colorful snows. There are coral, bubblegum, neon, salmon, TS, champagne, etc as well as combinations of these. I'm sure there are multiple genes and gene combos in play (hypo, strawberry, red factor, red coat, etc) as well as the selective breeding, all mixing together to give you the variety you see. And there is a big difference in phenotype between a coral snow and a salmon snow.

 

[dave partington]

What Susan said. It might be fun to toss some Landrace Lava & Keys corn genes in the mix too. And a dash of Cayenne, maybe a dribble of dilute, a drop of charcoal or lavender, some Hypo A.
But there probably comes a point when there's 12 or so genes in the mix that are either het or homo in expression, and so it's easier to line breed for a "look" then to try to figure out what precisely is going on.

 

[Tara80]

Both Landrace AND Cayenne get their look from the red coat/red factor, so ultimately this stuff only comes down to a few genes. It's just breaking them out to determine what is what that's difficult.
You have Hypo A/Strawberry/Christmas on one allele
Then Red Coat (or Red Factor) - whatever the cornsnake community decides to call it
And then Lava

 

[Jaded_Heart]

I think there should be a solid separation between what is in fact a "coral snow" vs a "salmon snow". I see tons of debate on the topic, and it's been solidly agreed than an animal homo for Amel, Anery, and Hypo produced a snake with pink saddles. and there are also snows that are pink all the way through. I assume those solidly pink snows carry the Strawberry gene? And coral ghosts, do those also carry the strawberry gene?

it would be easier to understand if coral ghosts, and coral snows, were based on the same set of genes (amel thrown in to make it a snow) but otherwise the same.

and a Amel/Anery/Hypo snow should be labeled separately to avoid all the confusion. Just IMO

 

[zorro]

I am going to respectfully disagree with my friends here and say the red coat and red factor may be two different things. I don't consider Joe's "red coat" to be anything like the cayenne's "red factor". Sometimes I think people just are in such a hurry to have their own name on something and don't do the test breeding ( which may take several years) to back it up.
I am just getting adults ready to test breed salmon ghosts (JMG) to TS pinks in 2012 to see if that pink is the same.
We all should be test breeding to see if this is all the same or something different so that we can have one or two names for the red or pink ones to end the confusion.
There are some that have done a lot of testing on some of these like Marsha who I think was mainly testing neon, champagne and coral and then her red factor bloods.
Just my opinion
John

 

[crotalis40741]

I am going to respectfully disagree with my friends here and say the red coat and red factor may be two different things. I don't consider Joe's "red coat" to be anything like the cayenne's "red factor". Sometimes I think people just are in such a hurry to have their own name on something and don't do the test breeding ( which may take several years) to back it up.
I am just getting adults ready to test breed salmon ghosts (JMG) to TS pinks in 2012 to see if that pink is the same.
We all should be test breeding to see if this is all the same or something different so that we can have one or two names for the red or pink ones to end the confusion.
There are some that have done a lot of testing on some of these like Marsha who I think was mainly testing neon, champagne and coral and then her red factor bloods.
Just my opinion
John

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone on this but If redcoat/redfactor are different genes the redcoat is less expressive. Some of the snakes I have seen posted with this label really don't look like they carry anything but normal red. I am no an expert is just my opinion on it. I have quite a few more years of test breeding here with it. I know I like the redfactor a lot and am excited to see how things progress. A few things I want to find out is which other genes does it work best with? Can the gene be bred too tight and after a few generations lose the red? I hope that one makes sense. Will most hatchlings showing it color up close to the father or will they just be brighter red in the saddles, heads and necks?
I am testing him with a wild caught female this year and a het sk blood, amel female and will post the results. But again I meant no disrespect to anyone in any of this.
bob

 

[Tara80]

You may be right John.
What I am stating is due to much discussion with Don; but I know you talk to him regularly as well and things could quickly change based on more trial breedings.
From what I've heard Red Coat and Red Factor is just a different play on word depending upon who's talking about it.
Also the red compounds and can be greatly reduced as well from outcrossing.

It's sort of muddy waters at the moment since it's only been recently that it's been determined strawberry is separate but allelic to hypo and IS different.

I don't think many of us (other than poppy and Don) have been able to do significant breeding trials yet to really get a grasp on what's going on.
I've got a pair of F1 neon x salmon snow babies I'm hoping to pair either this year or next.