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Some People... (rant!)

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It is true...

that once a serious expert in any field (medicine, reptile enthusiast, whatever) gets on TV, he / she will have to pander to the audience to some extent. The producers will insist on catchy headlines, and at least some sensationalism. The best shows combine that lure with some really good info for real "edutainment". The mediocre shows are just sloppy and sensational (like some on Animal Planet, unfortunately). I usually evaluate nature and medical shows by scrutinizing the parts I DO know - if they mess up the facts there, then I assume they also cheat on the parts I don't know. I can live with some sensationalism and pandering to the lowest common denominator if I am also getting some useful info. So far, I am satisfied that Dr. Oz and also "The Doctors" have been pretty accurate and usually present both sides of controversial topics. If I can be entertained while learning, that doesn't seem so bad.
 
snakemaster24 said:
Well like with the conda thread you tried to make it about me..................I can pull direct quotes from that.
Click to expand...
Actually, kiddo, I tried to defend the OP by saying that just because his name is the same, he's not necessarily a troll. I understand that you crave attention that you might not get at home, and I'm sad for you, but for the love of all that is holy, stop trying to point fingers at other people by telling them they're "worse" than you. Babycakes, you've yet to earn that luxury.
 
You know...I love it when you say, Babycakes.

It must be you tone.

Say it again for me will ya! :nyah:
 
You can make yourself look great by trying to make someone else look bad. I've never stuck around folks who talked trash about others, because it indicated they'd do the same with regards to me. But I can appreciate the scenario of telling others how they can change to accommodate me, for that way, they never have to work on personal self improvement.
Sheesh, this livingroom is a mess.
I'll call roto-rooter.
 
kathylove said:
"...THAT study would merely show that the majority of Americans are uneducated and lazy when it comes to nutrition...with or without meat... "

Unfortunately, I would have to tend to agree with you on that!


These experiments were not meant to be scientific, published studies. They were merely short experiments meant to graphically show viewers who might relate to those in the in the show what could be accomplished by a drastic change in a short time. I don't think Dr. Oz expected most, if any, to maintain a completely raw, vegan diet for the rest of their lives. He was just trying to get them motivated to make healthful changes that would incorporate SOME of tips they had found out in that short time. He did do some follow up on them some months later. As I remember, some did keep up some of the changes, and were enjoying better health. And some were not.

These shows were meant to be inspirational and motivational, and to make viewers think about their health. But I don't think Dr. Oz expected anyone to think they are scientific, double blind, studies to be published in a peer reviewed journal. That was not the purpose. I think they did succeed in making people think - not sure how many people acted on them, though.
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I understand the intent behind the "experimentation". Problem is...the average boob-tube-viewer doesn't care if an experiement is accurate or "scientific" or merely a sensationalised feel-good story. If it's presented as factual(as his shows are), they accept it as factual, and never care to research any further.

In many situations, this may just be no big deal. But I think in terms of health and diet it is something that should not be taken lightly and left to the general public to "decipher" whether it is scientific or not. We KNOW where that leads us.

What I mean is...a show like this can and soon will be(and I'm actually surprised it wasn't exploited more in this topic) used as "proof" that a strict vegan or raw diet is "healthier" than a meat-inclusive diet. And that's just baloney. A healthy diet is a healthy diet, with or without meat. Unfortunately, people will use this to better their own personal agendas, and as "proof" of some garbage point that doesn't really make any sense on any level deeper than superficial...

I mean...just look at some of the "proof" that gets spewn about.

Cows are the main cause of global warming due to methane gas so a vegan diet is better for the environment. BUNK. It's garbage at it's deepest level, and has absolutely no basis in the real world issue of global warming. But it's used...often.

Meat is unhealthy because we can't absorb it at a fast enough rate to metabolise it, which means a vegetarian diet is blanketly healthier. BUNK. The AMOUNT of meat that people eat is unhealthy. The TYPE of meat that people eat is unhealthy. The cooking process of some meat can be unhealthy. But meat in and of itself, in appropriate amounts, and as a portion of a HEALTHY diet is not the least bit unhealthy.

These are the types of "proof" that get regurgitated in debate after debate about vegan/vegetarian diets being "more healthy", and frankly...they are crap arguments with no basis in reality. And shows like this actually help propogate those myths...

I guess it isn't a big deal. I just don't like seeing garbage touted as science...and vice versa...

And I in no way mean to imply that you, Kathy, were touting this as "science" or "proof" of anything. I know that wasn't what you were doing with your response, so please don't take this post that way...
 
wade said:
Dave I wish you weren't so critical of others.
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That statement rocks. Ok, now Im outta here because tyflier knows everything there is to know....and he's right no matter what.:sidestep:

I still wonder why so many Dr.s and Dieticians recommend vegetarianisim? Hmmmmm....:cool:
 
I have a sorta funny-gross story that came to mind when I saw that this thread was still going along.

Years ago I got invited to a crawfish boil at a nice farmhouse, with a seating area near a barn which had barn cats and a passel of kittens.
One kitten came along and saw this piece of what I vaguely remember was chicken. Started to gobble it down, but its tiny teeth couldn't manage to crunch up the bone so it urked up the morsel. The next kitten, seeing the urked up morsel, ran to get it. It too first gobbled, then urked. This went on for several more kittens as I visited and talked and surreptiously followed the kitten drama.
Dunno why, this thread reminds me of the hapless kittens that wouldn't stop trying.
 
"...Meat is unhealthy because we can't absorb it at a fast enough rate to metabolise it, which means a vegetarian diet is blanketly healthier. BUNK. The AMOUNT of meat that people eat is unhealthy. The TYPE of meat that people eat is unhealthy. The cooking process of some meat can be unhealthy. But meat in and of itself, in appropriate amounts, and as a portion of a HEALTHY diet is not the least bit unhealthy..."

I agree that people can be healthy as vegans or as omnivores,with proper planning and follow through. Actually, I think that probably EVERYONE in the discussion probably agrees with that? And I think that some individuals will find optimum health with various well planned diets ranging from either extreme, depending on their own genes and preferences. I don't THINK that anyone disagrees with that? So I think we are in agreement.

As far as popular shows (and even popular books) - it is true that some people who refuse to research further will take everything they see on TV as gospel, and use it as scientific proof. But since those kind of people will not likely research "real" science anyway, I think it is far better that a confirmed fast food addict get the idea that raw vegan is good to trend towards, than that they continue to believe that burger joints should be their major food group each day! It is highly unlikely that such a person will suddenly turn into a raw vegan because they liked the show! But maybe they will make an effort to incorporate a LITTLE of the good that they see.

Those are the same kind of unthinking people who will take their pet pythons to the bar or beach to scare people, and see nothing wrong with it (or newbies who cohab snakes, no matter what info they find, lol!). But all you can do is give out info, and set people on the right path to do more research on their own. If they are adults, they have to take responsibility to find their own truth, and live with the consequences of their actions.
 
yellowbellyhippy said:
That statement rocks. Ok, now Im outta here because tyflier knows everything there is to know....and he's right no matter what.:sidestep:

I still wonder why so many Dr.s and Dieticians recommend vegetarianisim? Hmmmmm....:cool:
Click to expand...

Hey, YBH...what doctors, since there are "so many" of them, recommend a complete removal of all meat and dairy products from a diet? And even better...what doctors would recommend this to a person already eating a healthy omnivorous diet, other than one with a personal agenda to fill? Most doctors don't recommend drastic dietary and lifestyle changes to already healthy individuals...except maybe yours...

I'd like a list. Since you claim that there are "so many" of them, I am assuming that you have seen a listing or webasite somewhere wherein all the doctors that recommend this drastic change in dietary needs have listed and provided substantiated evidence that it is always a healthier choice.

Yes...I noticed how you conveniently forget about tofu being a supplement, and yes, I notice how you conveniently forgot about the oral supplement pills you take. See...when I asked you about those things you claimed you didn't take any of it. Later on, you described your ritual of taking many individual supplements and mixing them together every morning. Very convenient, isn't it?

Like I said...just more garbage arguments used in support of bunk. Until I see that list of doctors I will assume you are just talking out of your hind quarters. I will admit that is a neat bonus to a vegan diet...

If you can't be respectful...be quiet. Leave the real talk to the adults...
 
Actually, there was an interesting experiment...

again, not a scientific, control group experiment, but interesting nonetheless, about reversing diabetes with a raw, vegan diet. A movie was made about it, a doctor supervised it, and I did watch it. They took several people with Type II diabetes, and put them on a raw diet for 30 days. It really did work. BUT - there is no way to know what would have happened on a super healthful cooked, omnivore diet and there was no control group. But I still found it very interesting and indicative that we do need more healthful produce. I believe they did do some follow up on the participants at a later date, but can't remember the details.

Again - I am aware that it is not long term, and had no control groups. But doesn't mean we can't learn something from the effort.

Here is the movie, if anyone is interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Simply-Raw-Reversing-Diabetes-Days/dp/B001BKLCCS
 
Dr. Gabriel Cousens
(a famouse vegan Dr. and author)

My previous Dr. Dr. Cottrell ( he is in minden,nv you can get his phone #)

My current Dr. Dr. Chacon 775-883-3636

Also, the 7 Day adventist medical center in Portland Oregon is a vegetarian hospitol with PLENTY of Dr.s and 1 Fab dietician.
 
I look kind of anemic in that lighting. Not as much as when I'm wearing school-bus-yellow clothing. Pass me an Iron-Tab please.

Go to the USER CP (link at near-top left of the screen),
then in the CP, scroll down, it's a link on the left side.
Under "Settings and Options".
;)
 
Kathy, I was doing the Yerba Mate & Milk Thistle when I was OD'ing on zoomzoom health extracts. Yerba Mate is Ilex paraguayensis. A South American Holly. Also an alternate source of caffeine, I later learned. Effect is similar to making tea from our (Florida) native Ilex vomitoria LEAVES, which by weight, is 26 times more caffeine than coffee. (the berries are toxic, hence the species name).
 
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