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Starting to become irritated here.......

Symphony_grace

Symphony_grace

That One Weird Girl
I have 3 sets of harem mice colonies that I picked up in the past 3 months.
I noticed yesterday that my very first female was pregnant and left her alone with the set.
Well not too long ago she gave birth to quite alot of pups! But the problem is I think either she or her along with the other females in that harem set have eaten most of the babies. I managed to save 3 and separate the mom with her babies from the set. Within minutes I find the mom nibbling on a baby, and doesn't seem to want to take care of her litters at all. This is the second litter from this exact mouse that past me by and I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong!!!!!! Please help me ):
 
"Different strains of mice vary in fecundity, and certain mutant strains can be difficult to breed, due to a variety of factors such as small litter sizes, low fertility, poor mothering instincts, high rates of cannibalism of newborns, and higher morbidity or mortality resulting from the genetic mutation/alteration. When acquiring a new genetically modified strain, therefore, it is always a good idea to consult with someone who has direct experience with maintaining that strain." http://www.research.uci.edu/tmf/husbandry.htm
 
For what its worth, cannibalism can occur due to overcrowding with many animals. After the cannibalism starts it can be hard to control as a baby may have a touch of blood on it that triggers the cannibalism through sight or scent. I had my own bought with that myself at one time. Too many males can also lead to cannibalism.
 
Some mice just eat there babies its there nature I feed those females off. How many mice do you have in one harem?
 
taxman123 said:
Some mice just eat there babies its there nature I feed those females off. How many mice do you have in one harem?
Click to expand...

For the one with the cannibal mom, 5.
Another has 4 and the last one is 6. The one with 5 in it is the only harem that gives me trouble so far. I've yet to see about the others.
 
http://www.snakebreeder.co.uk/html/mice.html
"I have found that 2 to 4 females to one male in a standard mouse cage works fine."
I especially like this later article. It is very well written and even covers the feeding of mice. Albeit, I've read other mice rearing articles that go way too in-depth with the mice feed. Everything from specialty feed mixes to warnings about not feeding corn. Suffice it to say you definitely want healthy mice if they are going to be the sole source of nutrition for your corns.
 
Not...feeding mice corn.......?
Well shoot. That's one of my mistakes -_- But I thought once a week helps build protein!
 
It took me months to find a start for breeders that did not eat their babies. After that the colonies are many generations down the road, with just an occasional pinkie being eaten. Sometimes it is not what you are feeding them, how they are housed or the numbers. It is just poor breeder stock and cannibalistic parentage. It is usually best to get breeders from someone who has established colonies instead of pet stores and such. My colonies are fed on rodent block, dog food and a performance chicken scratch (Game Fowl Diet) from Southern States. I don't like a mix that is mostly corn but some corn is ok. Best of luck with it
 
It's fairly normal for a mouse to eat her first litter, but when I had my happy mouse farm any repeat offenders were culled. Stress through overcrowding or disturbance can be a factor, as well as the protein in the diet. Personally I used sow pellets (pig feed) as the staple diet with good results, no wastage like you get with grain mixes, where the mice pick out their favourite bits and leave the rest. The litters grew fast.
1 male to 3 females worked best for me, especially after the colonies got established and the females were all related. Toilet roll tubes to run through and chew up, safe climbing and chewing branches from apple and hazle trees plus deep littering so they could tunnel around semed to give the mice a better environment.
Then I made the mistake of wanting to add in fancy colours, and started to get smaller litters and babies that didn't thrive from introducing pied mice to my PEWs and eventually gave up.
 
:bowdown:Now that makes sense Diamondill. A lot easier than blending everything together and trying to make your own special feeding pellets or blocks as well.
 
I did a 3:1 ratio don't switch out males or females give them a few breeding start over again with an entire new clutch. As they mature I cull males and older females. My mouse tubs were 60 gal modified tubs worked very well.
 
susang said:
I did a 3:1 ratio don't switch out males or females give them a few breeding start over again with an entire new clutch. As they mature I cull males and older females. My mouse tubs were 60 gal modified tubs worked very well.
Click to expand...

60 gallon tubs, 3:1 ratio.... total numbers in each 60 gal tub would be nice. :rolleyes: I'm always trying to pick brains. Other than that, I'm relatively harmless.
 
A lot of first timer moms eat the litter and go on to never do it again. They can get overzealous when grooming their first ever babies and as inexperienced momma mouse sometimes just doesn't know when to stop. I used to cull or remove the mice that were cannibalizing but now I just leave them in there and give them a second chance. Moving them stresses them, I leave them in their group let them figure it out and usually they don't eat all the pinkies so I let them raise whatever they didn't eat and practice being moms. If they do it a second time they get fed off. If there's a big litter getting cannibalized I might take a few of those pinkies and give them to another, more experienced colony to raise, If a female in a different cage has pinkies the same size they usually readily adopt the pups. But I do leave a couple in with the first mom so she can practice raising them. Usually the cannibalism that happens right after they are born is an inexperienced mom thing as opposed to being caused by hunger or overcrowding.
 
From what I know off breeding mice females shouldnt be together for birth and the males shouldnt either. Mice are not ment to be able to raise more then 4-6 max with out have weak litters that may not thrive for 3 mice you will need a cage the equvlant to the floor space of a 20 gallon long. for diet try parakeet or cockatiel feed but not just the cheep stuff this will give the aproriate protien (should be 12-15% i beilve) and anything kaytee should just be ignored all together. Mice like privacy so a cardbord box or other form of box is nice for them to raise there young in and babies should never be touched before 3 days...but I have never bred mice its just what i have learned from good mouserys.
 
Hmmm. I think my experiences are odd reading your posts...

I have a 2.5 colony that has a thirty gallon tank, as well as a tube that leads out the top to an old hamster cage. They utilize all of it.. when I catch cannibals, I kill them right then and there, pregnant or not (like my last one... she woulda had at least 12 babies too >.> ). I keep everyone together at all times, the boys don't really fight, the females haven't eaten any babies since I switched them to cheap dog food (more plant protein) and rabbit chow (and the random dinner left overs LOL). I handle the babies I don't plan to kill off right away too... I break all the rules :(

It took me a year to get to this spot though, and my females REALLY pumped out the babies this summer. I had to kill a lot of mice before finding a line that didn't eat the babies. I usually will keep a female back from my litters.
 
I have been raising mice and rats for many decades - usually pretty successfully.

As noted by others, I sometimes have also seen first time moms eat babies. And I have seen moms (or dads) eat them when stressed due to overcrowding, overheating, or too much disturbance from people or cats, dogs, etc.

OTOH, I have, at times, had mine a bit overcrowded (especially when I am planning to pull most of the babies as pinks instead of allowing them to grow up) and somewhat too hot, often without many problems at all. Sometimes I think a mouse just has a tendency to eat babies. Those get fed off, so if it is genetic, the trait(s) will show up less in my population of mice as time goes on.

I have never separated out individuals from the group cage for them to give birth. But if you want to provide some sort of nest boxes for privacy, they often do make use of them, and will probably suffer less stress as a result.

An interesting note - I knew somebody who kept huge harems of a male and a couple of dozen females together in a very large cage. They usually did quite well. The male was happy and seemed to do his job without constantly harassing the females - seemed to work fine.
 
Don't seperate any of them from eachother. It just stresses them out when you go to put them back together.
 
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