Stop the political B.S.

[snakemom1961]

I guess I'm confused about the whole "political BS" part.
I know threads get heated at times, but to me that's the reason for the "general chitchat forum".
I realize we all have to follow rules as far as calling each other names. but really I'm really surprised that this has been brought to light.
I guess this is just another reason I try to limit who I post to and what I say.

I Don't need to be patroled with every post I make. I'm sure I have typed some things in the past that maybe I shouldn't have, but seeing what you the moderator has said in this post alone I'm sure I've use much less harsh vocabulary.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Alot of forums that I frequent that DO allow it, have a topic just for it. Minimal moderation, and a disclaimer not to enter if you are thin skinned.

The fish website I formerly moderated for has just such a forum, and it contributed greatly to my losing interest in the forum and ultimately giving up my position as a moderator there. I rarely even visit that forum anymore.

They had the warnings, too, and the problem with putting it in its own little forum with warnings is that people then seem to feel they can say/do anything in that forum, without fear of reprisal or penalty from the mods. It breeds an atmosphere of resentment among all parties. I for one do not want to see that happen here....

I will say this... the personal attacks and thinly veiled insults that have been tossed around in a few threads of late have come from ALL sides, not just one, which is the gist I was getting from this thread.

 

[wade]

Some people like to think they don't make personal attacks, but that is for the receiving party to decide. And maybe they just don't realize that attacking Obama personally will create equal offensiveness, so they don't see where the backlash is coming to.

I enjoy the relevant political and religious topics, those mostly started by the more thought provoking members of the board such as Kathy, Wade, and Tom E. But sometimes someone will take a good discussion and mar it with anti Obama sentiments. I do very much like Obama, but do not like to be called Socialist, Communist, or a blind supporter because of it.

Michael I don’t thing you are being entirely fair or realistic. If we are to have a political discussion of any kind, politicians are bound to come up and Barack Obama is in fact a politician. I don’t agree with most of the thing he is doing right now. I don’t agree with his philosophy in general. If my saying that is out of bounds, then we better not have a discussion.

How can we have any kind of political discuss if you feel that anti Obama sentiments are offensive. Are we restricted to Bush Bashing? Is that the only thing we are allowed to say? When Bush was president, the Democrats were very vocal about his spending and how the deficit was going up. Now Obama is spending more than twice as much. Shouldn’t we be allowed to mention that?

You can’t have it both ways. If you feel free to criticize everything Bush did, and you have on many occasions, then you can’t get upset if people criticize Obama for doing the same thing. I mean I’m just calling a spade a spade.

If you guys really want to talk politics and religion maybe there should be a topic specifically for it. Alot of forums that I frequent that DO allow it, have a topic just for it. Minimal moderation, and a disclaimer not to enter if you are thin skinned.

Sir or Madam, I am not really familiar with you. I don’t think I’ve seen you around too much. This forum is in general a snake forum or more specifically a Cornsnake form. We talk about care and husbandry, breeding, genetics and morphs, all kinds of Cornsnake related issues. Then me have a miscellaneous section where we talk about non-Cornsnake snake issues. If it does not pertain to snakes in any way, we place those comments in what we like to call the General Chit Chat section. This is the section that you should avoid, don’t click on, don’t read, and don’t look at. Give it a try.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

I guess I'm confused about the whole "political BS" part.
I know threads get heated at times, but to me that's the reason for the "general chitchat forum".

I think this is just a warning/enough is enough thread concerning some recent posts in which debates have evolved into personal attacks.

They had the warnings, too, and the problem with putting it in its own little forum with warnings is that people then seem to feel they can say/do anything in that forum,

Totally agree. With those types of subforums with 'warnings' it seems the debates turn into personal attacks even quicker. People think because it's in a seperate subforum, with a warning, that the rules are more lax...when in actuality all rules still apply.

Like it's been stated a few times...attack ideas, not people. If you can't handle people challenging your ideals and way of thinking then don't participate in that thread...it's quite easy to hit the 'go back' button...I do it often.

 

[snakemom1961]

I guess the problem is the language the moderator used to make his point.
If he truly means what he says, then he should be made to curb his language hisself.
I truly do find "whiney bitch" offensive. Will I report it? No, because I'm sure there are things I have said and probably will say in the future that will offend others. I will not cast stones, but still find it a bit ironic that one of our trusty mods would complain about attitudes towards other and language and yet use some of both hisself.

 

[wade]

I reported Mr. Munson for his language last night. It wasn't just this thread. Roy was a regular potty mouth last night and I see no reason why we should be expected to toe the line if he can't control his mouth himself.

 

[Michael823]

Michael I don’t thing you are being entirely fair or realistic. If we are to have a political discussion of any kind, politicians are bound to come up and Barack Obama is in fact a politician. I don’t agree with most of the thing he is doing right now. I don’t agree with his philosophy in general. If my saying that is out of bounds, then we better not have a discussion.

How can we have any kind of political discuss if you feel that anti Obama sentiments are offensive. Are we restricted to Bush Bashing? Is that the only thing we are allowed to say? When Bush was president, the Democrats were very vocal about his spending and how the deficit was going up. Now Obama is spending more than twice as much. Shouldn’t we be allowed to mention that?

You can’t have it both ways. If you feel free to criticize everything Bush did, and you have on many occasions, then you can’t get upset if people criticize Obama for doing the same thing. I mean I’m just calling a spade a spade.

You're right Wade! And I have to apologize to you for calling you out in the last thread. I was just angry that you were quoting what I posted in response to KJUN as offensive, and not being equally critical of him for his constant attempt to call my brother and I system milking, blind supporting, socialist extremists.
You have every right to personally call out Obama for some of his bogus ideas, and I have sincerely agreed with a lot of your thread topics and posts. What I mean by the anti-Obama sentiments, are the Anti-Christ accusations, communist accusations, etc... I think those type of posts are bound to stir up a heated conversation, and unfairly detract from the thought out ideas that you began your threads with.
Most of the time I want to agree with what your saying, I just don't want to be another person on the side of the fence that simply has it out for Obama for who he is (not that you do). I truly feel that you attack Obama's views in a fair way, regardless of whether I disagree. But you aren't always fair in calling people out for being offensive, and it seems disproportionately aimed at a few members. Which makes it hard to get into a good debate, when you have some members getting away with certain statements, and jumping on every post of others.

 

[mike17l]

What I mean by the anti-Obama sentiments, are the Anti-Christ accusations, communist accusations, etc...

Anti-Christ comments, fine whatever. But the communist accusations? You are the one (maybe it was your brother) who "calls a spade a spade", just like you, many of us call a communist a communist. Calling someone a communist is not an insult, it is a statement of fact or maybe just opinion. Look up the definition of communist/communism, you will see that is an ideal, a way of life, you will also find, that many of Mr. Obama's ideals line very closely with communism. Does that make him a communist? maybe, maybe not. Only time and history will tell.

 

[Roy Munson]

A couple of points...

1. I am not required to act as a mod in every post I make. I was out of line last night, but I was clearly willing to accept the consequeces. I haven't received any warnings yet, but if I'm able, I will give myself infraction points.

2. While heated political discussions may be fun and harmless to some, they usually result in more work for the mods. If you haven't spent a week using all of the little cs.com time you have reading and responding to dozens of trivial reports, then you may not understand the situation as well as you think.

 

[KJUN]

If you guys really want to talk politics and religion maybe there should be a topic specifically for it. Alot of forums that I frequent that DO allow it, have a topic just for it. Minimal moderation, and a disclaimer not to enter if you are thin skinned.

That's why we already have the general chit-chat forum.
KJ

 

[KJUN]

Obama isn't a member. We can call him names. The rules have ALWAYS been no attackign members, and Rich has stated this pretty obviously on at least one of his other boards.

You're right Wade! And I have to apologize to you for calling you out in the last thread. I was just angry that you were quoting what I posted in response to KJUN as offensive, and not being equally critical of him for his constant attempt to call my brother and I system milking, blind supporting, socialist extremists.
You have every right to personally call out Obama for some of his bogus ideas, and I have sincerely agreed with a lot of your thread topics and posts. What I mean by the anti-Obama sentiments, are the Anti-Christ accusations, communist accusations, etc... I think those type of posts are bound to stir up a heated conversation, and unfairly detract from the thought out ideas that you began your threads with.
Most of the time I want to agree with what your saying, I just don't want to be another person on the side of the fence that simply has it out for Obama for who he is (not that you do). I truly feel that you attack Obama's views in a fair way, regardless of whether I disagree. But you aren't always fair in calling people out for being offensive, and it seems disproportionately aimed at a few members. Which makes it hard to get into a good debate, when you have some members getting away with certain statements, and jumping on every post of others.

Be honest. I've NEVER called you or anyone a "socialist extremist." To me, you are a socialist or you are not one. It's like be pregnant - you are or you aren't.

 

[wade]

2. While heated political discussions may be fun and harmless to some, they usually result in more work for the mods. If you haven't spent a week using all of the little cs.com time you have reading and responding to dozens of trivial reports, then you may not understand the situation as well as you think.

I'd like to make a suggestion to the population as a whole. We are all big boys and girls here. The rules are in place to maintain a certain level that would be appropriate to 14-year-old children. That is hard for me, I don’t understand Rules, Limitations, and Boundaries. But we also don’t need to cry to the moderators every time someone stubs their toe. We don’t need to use the moderators to settle disagreements. We don’t need to report every infraction. I have been a member for a long time and I think I have only reported 3 people. One of them was Roy Munson last night.

So give the mods a break. Don’t lean so hard on the complaint button.

 

[KJUN]

So give the mods a break. Don’t lean so hard on the complaint button.

That's been my motto. Excluding SPAM, I think I can only remember reporting two posts. One was profanity and one was an attack on me many moons ago that was in a thread I wasn't even really involved in at all. That one was because of the way it insulted others on his forum through an attempt to insult me. Special situation. If I have done more, it's profanity. That is something I wish was handled a LOT more strongly here. It is not necessary nor called for. If you can't argue without profanity, then you have no valid case for your argument in the first place.

Otherwise, I don't lean on that button too hard, either. If I'm a big enough boy to get INTO a mess, then it's my mess. I own it, and I either need to live with it or stay our of messy situations.

I'd behave differently if I were a moderator (as I do on another board) and I WOULD remove posts that I would never report myself. Different hats. Different actions. However, if I get my butt chapped over something, that is up to me to get over. I don't need a moderator to help me not get my feelings hurt.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I have to try and leave the political threads alone anymore. I am a liberal and it seems like there is a majority of conservative people here that lean the other way (including a couple of the mods LOL) but I have to admit it is getting old seeing the same three or four people getting into heated and nasty exchanges first on dog training then on politics. I don't care who started it or who's right or wrong, just want to see it die down already. What we all DO have in common (at the very least the love of the hobby of keeping cornsnakes) seems worth more to me than what we don't.

 

[Hail_Britannia]

Indeed, I agree. It's hard being made to feel uncomfortable/unwelcome because of one's political convictions, which is why I've been forced to stay out of the political threads on this site. Seems counterproductive, since one can only have a well-rounded discussion when members of each point of view are included in the dialogue, but meh. By the way, I'm not saying anyone on this site has attacked me personally, they haven't, but many of the comments in certain threads have made me feel a bit...unwanted.

I guess I just don't thrive on conflict...but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Michael823]

Be honest. I've NEVER called you or anyone a "socialist extremist." To me, you are a socialist or you are not one. It's like be pregnant - you are or you aren't.

Have you or have you not made personal attacks on the fact that I receive disability? and even taunted and ridiculed my brother and I for it. Or that I like Obama because of his "socialism", and because he's like my rich uncle that provides for me to have a "free ride".
I also don't agree with the personal attacks being acceptable about Obama because he is not a member. Calling, or insinuating that he is the Anti-Christ is a sure fire way to bait people, is it not? There are plenty of people that are not CS.com members including our families, and that does not open them up to inappropriate accusations. That is a ridicule that crosses political and religious debate, and has no place in a legitimate debate on politics.
The reported post and crying to the moderators accusation was also unfair. I've reported ONE post, and the mods can testify. I've specified which post it was, and it was legitimately reported as I found it beyond the level of casually inappropriate conversation. It was not simply because I felt picked on, it was because there could be zero integrity to being a family site if that was acceptable to post.

 

[KJUN]

Have you or have you not made personal attacks on the fact that I receive disability? and even taunted and ridiculed my brother and I for it. Or that I like Obama because of his "socialism", and because he's like my rich uncle that provides for me to have a "free ride".
I also don't agree with the personal attacks being acceptable about Obama because he is not a member. Calling, or insinuating that he is the Anti-Christ is a sure fire way to bait people, is it not? There are plenty of people that are not CS.com members including our families, and that does not open them up to inappropriate accusations. That is a ridicule that crosses political and religious debate, and has no place in a legitimate debate on politics.
The reported post and crying to the moderators accusation was also unfair. I've reported ONE post, and the mods can testify. I've specified which post it was, and it was legitimately reported as I found it beyond the level of casually inappropriate conversation. It was not simply because I felt picked on, it was because there could be zero integrity to being a family site if that was acceptable to post.

Ricky/Michael:

I only said things along those lines about you specifically after you openly stated you COULD work, but choice NOT to work because you wanted to do something else. I wish I had that option.....lol. That in NO WAY was relevant, though, to anything here. I didn't deny ANYTHING except calling anyone an extreme socialist. Feel free to go back and read my post.

 

[Chip]

Can't we just have a sub-forum where we can speak our minds without any regulation/censorship? If someone makes an "a" out of themselves or is even a total "D-bag," it's there for all to see, and their words will be on record, yet can still be freely allowed. I understand that with people of all ages coming to the message board, there is a need to enforce proper conduct. But an 18 and older contributing membership only forum, that might not only allow free speech, but create an area where the entertainment value would be amazing. Just spitballin', I haven't even seen any instances where anyone has overtly crossed any lines that created this whole thread.

 

[Michael823]

Ricky/Michael:

I only said things along those lines about you specifically after you openly stated you COULD work, but choice NOT to work because you wanted to do something else.

Where KJUN? Are you stating that I am simply choosing not to work? I would love an over 18 sub forum for this!

 

[Michael823]

Left out the part where you wished you had that option. Yup, we definitely need an over 18 sub forum for this.
Apparently KJUN is oblivious to the fact that people are born with setbacks and disabilities, yet thinks if there were such a thing that he could handle them with grace and ease. Please KJUN, keep your K-JUNK to yourself, and count your blessings that you have never had to live with a life threatening condition.

As the great Gandolf would say "for all of your subtleties you have not wisdom, I have seen more than you know for the eyes of the white tower are blind"