Study about UV light and Corn Snakes

[dadcoy]

Now first and foremost, I am not trying to reinvent the wheel. I am just trying to provide the best home for my baby Amel (named Gabriel...Big Christopher Walken fan)

I have had the conversation on here and on Bio Active sites.

After doing some research I found this study, and actually talked to a Vet. The vet and I had a conversation and while Corn snakes are nocturnal during hotter climates, they do spend most days in the open during cooler months(when not in brumatio(is that the right word)

so my question is...with all of these studies, I wonder if any of them took an Albino into consideration?

here is link to the study I was referring to:

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt...UeIpIq6cY2weiaVx10FpAGWd5ypwWciVR7InpWPct6SZg

 

[dadcoy]

I should say the vet told me that they are only nocturnal during hotter months....

 

[backafter30]

Link doesn't work for me.

I am all for providing a healthy environment for my snakes, but I think you're over-thinking the issue. You just posted an article in the feeding section about how frozen mice potentially have no nutrients, now you're suggesting that they need UV light? I'd be interested in reading that article, but snakes have been raised and bred in minimal-light tub racks for decades with no identifiable link to health issues. I've seen professional ball python racks that had opaque tubs that let in no light at all! Corns need a reasonable temperature gradient, a modest amount of room to stretch, disease-free rodents, water, and a place to hide. It's really not that complicated...

Unless you're just trying to stir the pot?

 

[dadcoy]

not trying to stir the pot, just new to snakes, did my research like any good pet owner should...join the message board and find out the ones that actually keep the snakes differ from the research I did, so I am trying to have an open discussion. that is what message boards are for correct?

the first statement in my post basically was not trying to start arguments, just wanna have a discussion...any harm in that??

not sure why link isnt working for you, i clicked it and it worked for me:
try this

http://www.arcadia-reptile.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Corn-Snake-project-2011.pdf-1.pdf

 

[dadcoy]

if you are on a computer that has facebook blocked, it won't work. I had to link it is through facebook as that was the way I found it

 

[backafter30]

Ok, that link worked. I'll take time to read it. Well, good for you for doing the research. Better than some who get half a dozen snakes and then wonder what to feed them. And that is exactly what this forum is for: discussion and learning. I'll let you know that I think after I read the article. :cheers:

 

[smigon]

Unless they are a certified reptile vet I wouldn't use them. Very few vets are experts in reptiles, and even then can lump corns in with boas and other snakes that do require certain light sources and care. I would trust the people here, they have so much information about corns and their care than most regular vets.

There are many vets who recommend live feeders (cruel to the mouse and the fight to the death may cause your corn to get really hurt in the process) and UV or regular spotlights. Corns don't need either, ever, and UV can harm some morphs and blind them.

 

[backafter30]

After reading the article, I have to say I'm unimpressed. 76 pages of blah, blah, blah, most of which really had nothing to do with the topic at hand, mixed with charts, graphs, tables, numbers, misspelled words, and the overall theme that "more research is needed", and "we really didn't prove anything". I didn't realize that a scientific perspective could be so boring. And the sample size was miniscule! I think that the combined experiences of hundreds of hobbyist breeders over several decades tells us much more, and that would be that most snakes do not require supplemental light for long-term health and well-being.

 

[LittleFrog]

None of my snakes are ever out during the day, only at night and early morning.

 

[Ravenessa]

The article had a lot of filling... And it said it affected the weight... HOWEVER I can bet money that 3-4 years down the line that they size is even again. Lack of UV grows them slower that I can agree on as UVB does stimulate bone growth amongst other things. I have monitor lizards and other UVB requiring animals. I am slow growing my sav so I can hopefully breed her in the future, and I suspect lack of real uv slows their growth down as they usually reproduce by age 1-2 in the wild, and in captivity they have issues to reproduce all together.

However I highly doubt it's a neccessity and the UV light we have are all way too strong and I would stay away from it as most snakes are more sensitive than we know.

That would eb my guess on this....

 

[obboi34]

I don't believe this study due to its construction and its final premise, apologies to Ms Nail. The take-away was that the animals may be more active when exposed to a UVB source, but I imagine that some of those same behavioral differences might be because of exposure to light sources. We would need a larger sample size for this to have meaning. I'd imagine that UVB might have some behavioral effect in the wild but that could just as easily be due to temperature changes from basking. .

 

[sn8kman1]

After reading the article, I have to say I'm unimpressed. 76 pages of blah, blah, blah, most of which really had nothing to do with the topic at hand, mixed with charts, graphs, tables, numbers, misspelled words, and the overall theme that "more research is needed", and "we really didn't prove anything". I didn't realize that a scientific perspective could be so boring. And the sample size was miniscule! I think that the combined experiences of hundreds of hobbyist breeders over several decades tells us much more, and that would be that most snakes do not require supplemental light for long-term health and well-being.

Wow, I must say that I unimpressed with that comment. My snakes are active at various parts of the day not just night time. I do after all feed them during daylight hours.

For those of you not familiar with an academic APA based article, the Abstract and Discussion sections contain the most information. The other parts are statistical so that another could replicate or reproduce the study to test for reliability and similar or different results.

If we are serious about giving corn snakes the best possible environment, then I feel that this article should be considered relevant. Like all academic articles, it does call for more research to be done; in this case with a larger sample.

This isn't the end all of the discussion by any means, but I feel the information given is useful.

But this is just my opinion for whatever that's worth.

 

[dadcoy]

Wow, I must say that I unimpressed with that comment. My snakes are active at various parts of the day not just night time. I do after all feed them during daylight hours.

For those of you not familiar with an academic APA based article, the Abstract and Discussion sections contain the most information. The other parts are statistical so that another could replicate or reproduce the study to test for reliability and similar or different results.

If we are serious about giving corn snakes the best possible environment, then I feel that this article should be considered relevant. Like all academic articles, it does call for more research to be done; in this case with a larger sample.

This isn't the end all of the discussion by any means, but I feel the information given is useful.

But this is just my opinion for whatever that's worth.

Well said.

As I have stated numerous times, I am no snake expert, it took me 14 years to talk my wife into allowing a snake in the home, she has a serious phobia of them, I have a serios phobia of spiders...I am 6'1" 240 lbs but if a tiny spider came by I would move, not kill it...but definetaly move so I understood her fear.

anyways back on topic, I do not want this to be an argument, just a discussion because I myself felt it was at least enough useful information to think there may be something to it. I would think maybe a small amount of UV might be beneficial, I also believe that the bulbs they sell are to much for any reptile let alone a corn. I have read another study that the reason some reptiles cannot breed in captivity is because non-natural UV speeds their growth and reproductive organs take the hit...but who knows...

 

[backafter30]

Sn8kman1,
Like you, I was only offering my opinion. I am not an expert, wasn't trying to impress anyone, and indeed would be quite surprised had I done so. Maybe I just didn't justify my comments well. When I said I was unimpressed, I meant that the article did not succeed in convincing me of anything. It was fluffed up with common-knowledge background details and information that I felt was not remotely relevant to the topic. I guess I am not familiar with academic articles, but that format seemed inefficient for transmitting information. The reader got bored, fell asleep, or wandered off before he got the whole story. The important data was not conclusive, and the sample of test subjects and test duration was insignificant even if a clear association had been indicated. Corn snakes are so highly diverse that one can have a single clutch of hatchlings, no two of which look alike, in different sizes, with different growth rates, different activity levels, temperaments, personalities, etc. And yet you consider the article relevant, and the information useful? In what way? Any topic, including the importance of UV, that helps us to provide for our animals is relevant, but what does this article teach us? Ten examples of one species, all with health issues, were observed for 17 weeks. Even if the conclusion had been clear, it would not have the significance to convince any snake breeder to provide UV light for their snakes. You would need to study a diversity of species, over a long period of time, under every condition to establish a connection between UV light and overall health. Since the snake hobbyist industry has done just that over decades, and is left with no unexplained health issues looking for a cause, it seems that there is no issue. While UV light may possibly provide some benefits, like making it more enjoyable to view our snakes, the lack of it does not seem to cause harm. So how is the information in the article useful? How will you use it, or how would you suggest any of us use it? I respect your opinion and think all of us being able to express ours here is a great benefit and can only improve the hobby. We all want what is best for our snakes, and I would be interested in seeing further research.

 

[murder4me]

Unless they are a certified reptile vet I wouldn't use them. Very few vets are experts in reptiles, and even then can lump corns in with boas and other snakes that do require certain light sources and care. I would trust the people here, they have so much information about corns and their care than most regular vets.

There are many vets who recommend live feeders (cruel to the mouse and the fight to the death may cause your corn to get really hurt in the process) and UV or regular spotlights. Corns don't need either, ever, and UV can harm some morphs and blind them.

How many certified reptile vets are on these boards?

 

[Shiari]

How about vet techs? I've worked at a practice with two vets who see reptiles. While they aren't certified, they do a ton of research into issues that their patients face. I've also taken reptiles to a vet who sees pretty much nothing but reptiles and birds. I took one snake to an emergency vet an hour away, and that vet also owns snakes. None of these vets were in the least bit concerned about a lack of UV light on my corn snakes. All 4 vets would confirm that my new box turtle *does* need UV light.

If we're going to continue playing the anecdata game, the vast majority of my snakes don't come out during the day unless they can 'smell' that I'm thawing them mice. Even then many of them don't move from the hidey spot until I actually set the bin on the floor in preparation to open it.

 

[dadcoy]

How about vet techs? I've worked at a practice with two vets who see reptiles. While they aren't certified, they do a ton of research into issues that their patients face. I've also taken reptiles to a vet who sees pretty much nothing but reptiles and birds. I took one snake to an emergency vet an hour away, and that vet also owns snakes. None of these vets were in the least bit concerned about a lack of UV light on my corn snakes. All 4 vets would confirm that my new box turtle *does* need UV light.

If we're going to continue playing the anecdata game, the vast majority of my snakes don't come out during the day unless they can 'smell' that I'm thawing them mice. Even then many of them don't move from the hidey spot until I actually set the bin on the floor in preparation to open it.

That could be a learned behavior as much as a natural behavior. I am no expert and I don't know which is right or wrong, but fact is all corn snakes in the wild get UV ligt, do they need it or crave it, well I think that depends on the snake and how they are kept. I have talked to others who give their corns UV for a few hours a day and theirs actually come out and bask in it while on....does it make them healthier...who knows

 

[Chip]

I've brought this up a few times, but guess I never started a thread about it. I experimented with UVB: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140412