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Taken a turn for the worst. I need help/advice..

oh give it a rest...
Sounds like good advice for both of you. The "enigma and klootie" show got old pages and pages ago. No more of it in this thread.

And to Wullie or anyone else who thinks this is a fun thread to bump with frivolous posts-- think again. This thread needs to die.
 
ryans shop in townhead

If you are giving Ryan free advertising send people to the right place, its in Townhill, Dunfermline.

I respect you as a lady who has gone through a great deal and is trying her best to deal with it...

That is out of order
and KARMA deals us blows in life

refusal to learn means KARMA is likely to deal us what we deserve,....

in relation to the second quote, these 2 are down right nasty.

Wullie
 
If you are giving Ryan free advertising send people to the right place, its in Townhill, Dunfermline.



That is out of order




in relation to the second quote, these 2 are down right nasty.

Wullie
If you only joined here to start trouble, then please don't bother sticking around. Go back to RFUK and play games there. Whether you stay or go, I'd rather not see another post from you in THIS thread, unless it's something of critical importance (and I'll be the judge of that). This is an official warning.
 
Sounds like good advice for both of you. The "enigma and klootie" show got old pages and pages ago. No more of it in this thread.

And to Wullie or anyone else who thinks this is a fun thread to bump with frivolous posts-- think again. This thread needs to die.

Roy, I apreciate that you may see my limited contribution to this particular thread as frivolous, but it amazes me how members of such a highly regarded and knowledgable forum as this one is, cant see through the smoke screen which has followed this particular thread and the main characters of it. It appears to me that some of the members across the pond have actually been treating them as experts (I'm not claiming to be an expert by the way). nothing could be further from the truth.

Now that I have found this forum I hoped to trawl up some useful info but will have to be careful what advice is taken when I see the high regard given to these overnight experts.

Roy this is in no way a blight on you, just getting something off my chest.

All the best in 2008

Wullie (yes the same one!)
 
Roy, I apreciate that you may see my limited contribution to this particular thread as frivolous...
Maybe "frivolous" was the wrong word for me to use. Your contributions were just unnecessary and redundant. I mean that literally, not in any inflammatory or insulting way. This fire is pretty much out, so throwing fuel on it now just wouldn't be productive.

...but it amazes me how members of such a highly regarded and knowledgable forum as this one is, cant see through the smoke screen which has followed this particular thread and the main characters of it.
I can't speak for the other non-UK cs.com members who have posted in this thread, but I personally didn't care all that much about this crisis. I suspect that many non-UK members in this thread didn't either (and some UK members too). Heck, I really don't know the whole story now, and I'm not interested in knowing it. What you may be interpreting as our inability to see through the smoke screen may merely be our lack of motivation to know every detail and follow every pointed finger. I certainly lack the motivation.

It appears to me that some of the members across the pond have actually been treating them as experts (I'm not claiming to be an expert by the way). nothing could be further from the truth.
I don't know about all that. Treating them as experts? How so? In my opinion, we don't seem to be too hung up on the expert thing around here. Corn snakes aren't the most demanding herps to keep and propogate anyway.

Now that I have found this forum I hoped to trawl up some useful info but will have to be careful what advice is taken when I see the high regard given to these overnight experts.
Hang around. But realize that like all of these types of forums, this one has members with limited experience who like to give out advice anyway. But most bad advice is confronted and corrected as a thread goes along. Judging the whole forum by what you've seen in one crazy thread isn't fair.

Roy this is in no way a blight on you, just getting something off my chest.

All the best in 2008

Wullie (yes the same one!)
I actually appreciated the response. And now that that's off your chest, I hope you can leave it here. You obviously had some specific members in mind when you made some of the statements above, and if your intent is to knock some of them down here in this forum, be very careful how you go about it. Review the forum rules. I've spent a very small amount of time on RFUK, and I don't know if you're accustomed to that atmosphere or even if you're a member there at all, but this site is much less relaxed about flaming than that one is.

Happy New Year!
 
... but it amazes me how members of such a highly regarded and knowledgable forum as this one is, cant see through the smoke screen which has followed this particular thread and the main characters of it. It appears to me that some of the members across the pond have actually been treating them as experts (I'm not claiming to be an expert by the way). nothing could be further from the truth.

Now that I have found this forum I hoped to trawl up some useful info but will have to be careful what advice is taken when I see the high regard given to these overnight experts.
Any status of expert or novice has nothing to do with this issue. And honestly, what qualifies someone an expert, anyway. Are you saying time in the hobby alone makes you an expert? Sounds like a bit of snobbery going, IMO.

An emotion-filled, premature warning was posted... emotions calmed, apologies and acceptance of errors were stated... and now some people just refuse to accept this, get over it and move on. Just give it up already. Or at least keep it on the other forum. Please.
 
An emotion-filled, premature warning was posted... emotions calmed, apologies and acceptance of errors were stated... and now some people just refuse to accept this, get over it and move on. Just give it up already. Or at least keep it on the other forum. Please.

Bravo! [my one and only post to this thread]

Only a fool would blindly accept a single individual's advice on the internet as being that of an "expert" with the exception of people who are recognized as bona fide experts (Jeff Mohr, Kathy Love, others). But, seeking and receiving advice of multiple folks and taken in as part of a 'big picture' does help someone make a better informed decision. CS.com does not fall victim to 'group think' very much - if there's a dissenting opining, you'll usually hear it.
 
Bravo! [my one and only post to this thread]

Only a fool would blindly accept a single individual's advice on the internet as being that of an "expert" with the exception of people who are recognized as bona fide experts (Jeff Mohr, Kathy Love, others). But, seeking and receiving advice of multiple folks and taken in as part of a 'big picture' does help someone make a better informed decision. CS.com does not fall victim to 'group think' very much - if there's a dissenting opining, you'll usually hear it.
I think you'll find this was your fifth post on the subject. The same amount as Toyah who was directly implicated...
MIKE
 
Merry Xmas Roy!
GGSL2_big.jpg
 
I think you'll find this was your fifth post on the subject. The same amount as Toyah who was directly implicated...
MIKE
Hmmm... I thought I had stayed out of this particular piece of nonsense. I guess I didn't. Unless someone posts before I do, this will then be my 6th of 572 posts, which makes me 1.04895% of the noise.
 
Hmmm... I thought I had stayed out of this particular piece of nonsense. I guess I didn't. Unless someone posts before I do, this will then be my 6th of 572 posts, which makes me 1.04895% of the noise.
I can see how your able to call all this nonsense. You don't live on a small island, with a vet alleging doom and gloom...
Luckily it was all something and nothing.
But no-one knew for sure for a long time.
MIKE
 
I can see how your able to call all this nonsense. You don't live on a small island, with a vet alleging doom and gloom...
Luckily it was all something and nothing.
But no-one knew for sure for a long time.
MIKE
Sorry, "nonsense" was a poor choice of words. Let me see if I followed the main details of this epic saga correctly (please correct me where I'm wrong, and you know I will be, which is why I don't watch TV mini-series):

* snake becomes ill, then seriously ill and is put down.
* vet, for unknown reasons (possibly cya), refuses to rule anything out, including what would be the worst case scenario - a particularly nasty virus which spreads easily and is pretty much a death sentence to exposed reptiles.
* distraught owner sounds the general alarm prematurely##
* much furor (part of what I lumped into the 'nonsense' part) ensues.
* owner can't get a straight answer from the vet/lab
* other animals become ill, which is revealed to have been probably caused by a mistake (or several, or a chain thereof) in husbandry
* previous owner, who also owns one or more of the newly ill snakes, is implicated then exonorated
* owner is publically crucified for a multitude of sins. Then drawn and quartered. Then fed into a cuisinart.
* owner apologizes for implicating previous owner, sounding the alarm prematurely, and not being able to provide timely information from her vet.
* not satisfied, she continues to be beaten.

Did the owner handle this situation as well as she possibly could? Probably not.
Were a lot of people put into panic? Yup.
Did the owner pay a price? Yup, sure looks to me as if she's been raked over the coals a time or two.
##Should the penalty be more severe, or continue to be metered out? That all depends upon her intent, which only she knows. Think back to the nursery rhymes you heard as a youngster: What was the difference between Chicken Little and The Boy Who Cried Wolf? Both caused a panic, both deserved to be corrected, but only one had evil intentions. I guess it's up to each person to decide which is the case here.

My personal opinion is that the owner was distraught over the situation that at the time her snake was put down she feared the worse and tried to warn the community. "Can't rule out" became "possibly is" in the heat of the moment and she reacted without adequate information. Any other mistakes she made aren't capital crimes in my opinion and she has paid for them, learned from them, passed them on, and hopefully won't repeat it. It just appears to me from my vantage point far away from your small island that things have gotten overly vindictive.

I can tell you that this experience was at the forefront of my thoughts the second I saw my snake (Butter) showing signs of an RI and the next day he was at the vet and began an aggressive course of treatment, which has probably saved his life (he's still not out of the woods, but eating and drinking and gaining weight and showing no signs of the RI any more). It has also made me ultra cautious about cleaning and sterilizing myself and anything that comes in contact with Butter, and my other snake that's suffering from repeated prolapses for still undetermined reason(s) (Vern). I go so far as to take a shower and put on fresh clothes after handling Butter or Vern before even going into the room where my 4 (still) healthy hatchlings are kept, and using sanitizer before and after touching any of them. I'm probably erring on the side of caution too much, but it's working so far.

Again, "nonsense" was a poor choice of words. But does this issue deserve to remain as heated and personal as it has become?
 
* previous owner, who also owns one or more of the newly ill snakes, is implicated then exonorated

Sorry, I just need to clarify this, despite agreeing that the thread should be quietly left until a copy of the virus results are posted, and then closed (assuming negative).

I am the previous owner of Windsor, and I have never had any problems with any of my snakes. Windsor did not show any respiratory symptoms while in my care. None of my other snakes have shown any signs of illness, and as it's now four months since Windsor left my home, I'd expect something to have happened by now, if it was going to!

The only reason I was implicated was because originally it was said that Windsor showed respiratory symptoms the night he left my home (and so it was my husbandry that was at fault). Later on, Elle did admit that she had lied when she said he was ill when he left here, and apologised for lying about it in the first place - not an easy thing to admit, and it was big of her to admit it rather than just take the easy option of continuing to insisting that it was true - but that's it over, done with for me, I appreciated the sentiment of the apology and I am not one to hold a grudge.
 
I am the previous owner of Windsor, and I have never had any problems with any of my snakes. Windsor did not show any respiratory symptoms while in my care. None of my other snakes have shown any signs of illness, and as it's now four months since Windsor left my home, I'd expect something to have happened by now, if it was going to!

Toyah - sorry... I missed that plot twist. I'm glad to know that you received an apology and that you accepted it.
 
It has also made me ultra cautious about cleaning and sterilizing myself and anything that comes in contact with Butter, I go so far as to take a shower and put on fresh clothes after handling Butter or Vern before even going into the room where my 4 (still) healthy hatchlings are kept, and using sanitizer before and after touching any of them. I'm probably erring on the side of caution too much, but it's working so far.
:-offtopic Strange you should mention this. I always use bacterial hand wash before touching any snake,and one of the reasons is scent(see below).
I always put it up my arms so I get good coverage. But some of the snakes then go up to my shoulder or around my neck, then the next might. So I'm wondering now if I should be naked, showering between vivs. (not an image to conjure with). How clean is clean , especially if you have snakes in quarantine. How do you know if the big Boa you just bought, hasn't left some nasty on your sweater ready for the next one to rub on.


MIKE'S THEORY #3 (Very similar to the tap method for handling big snakes)
Always use sanitiser before you handle your snake and it will associate the smell with coming out to play.
As opposed to when you go in to feed. They will work out what your in there for..LOL.
MIKE
 
I agreed ages ago this was all ridiculous... but I am sick to death of being flogged for something i have publically and privately appologised for on a weekly basis for months now...

what else can actually be achieved... nothing... after a person genuinely appologises publically contunued agitation of them persnally is obviuolsy going to cause a human reactiob of self preservation and defence... and there are many members have tried to agitate the situation whom are both much more mature , older and more experienced than myself in life and with reptiles...

I have had to weather being called a crack whore in this thread and ridiculous PMs ( and yes the moderators know of this) on this thread along with inflamatory comments about my disability and the fact i use a wheelchair so cannot care for my animals through private messages and emails...

It is very difficult when people are being personally nasty to keep your head above the childishness of it all and not attempt to defend yourself..


however... some of the more recent posters are correct... i tried appologising and it wasnt accepted... then people carried on causing issue with myself.. AFTER i had mentioned there was nothing more i could do or say.... they were just as guilty of causing drama AFTER it had calmed down as I was of causing it in the first place on RFUK... so whos really to blame for this being 10 million pages lng and ful of inane drama and petty arguements..

anyone who posted in an inflamattory or arguementative manner.. thats who.. which yes includes me...

what more can a person do if a specific group are intent on NOT accepting an appology and flogging a dead horse till they are covered in more blood...

I have said sorry so many times i am bored of the word.. I have tried to regain some dignity by walking away from this pointless arguing... only to fal back into it in the last few days as i felt the need to defend myself from more nastiness...

but as there have been a GROUP of people so intent on dragging every detail and every comment out over and over I have pointlessly felt i had to defend myself..


I am truly sorry this was the way i entered this forum... I never meant for my presence here to cause upset...

What has been forgotten clearly here is ... I genuinely care about my animals...

i hope despite the fact i have at times felt forced to defend my position when accused fo somethingn i have not done... i can stil find a way to enjoy my animals... not for breeding... not as some sort of fancy or hobby but simply becaus ethey are beautiful and fascinating animals...
 
FINALLY! Heres my black milk report through. I can't believe they were not going to send it without me demanding it? Whats that all about... Anyway, I requested it on the 21st I think and I didnt get it till today. The report was done on the 23rd November though so why was it not sent sooner (or at all should I say)?!

Date stamp on the envelope, I recieved the letter today. Fpr the Thomas' again...
milkreport2.png


page one
milkreport.png


Page two
milkreport3.png


As you can see It included the fecal details which was all fine. I spoke to my vet about his bacteria cultures as I didn't understand what it was saying and he said basically its nothing to worry about, this bacteria is found everywhere :p The only things edited out is the vet practice and his lab code which is unecessary info to the interweb.


There was no viral panel, just this report and Windsors gross autopsy report again. I will however get the vets to send me a written letter to say there is no virus present in my collection based on the evidence already provided. If they will not agree I will have them do bloodwork on Noir and get a viral panel done.
 
Crikey woman! This is a saga and a half! You've been given a right run-around. I don't see why they didn't run a viral panel, as I thought you'd paid for one? (Although I may be mixing up your snakes with the others involved?) Seeing as it was this vet who raised the virus possibility I think they owe you some reassurance that it's definately not present. (By which I don't mean that you owe anyone that result, more that the vet should provide definate closure)
 
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