The Largest Street Gang in America

[Nova_C]

I don't often start threads, but a discussion on another forum about police brutality that started around a cop literally shoving a taser in someone's anus before shocking the victim, this video was linked.

(Note, there are parts that are horrifically graphic)
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=54162036

It's pretty sickening.

Cops in the US and Canada (No, really) are getting out of control. People are being killed and the cop(s) responsible are getting no punishment whatsoever. In a culture of fear that permeates North America, with the rising demands for minimum jail times, the draconian and (likely) unconstitutional sex offender registry in the US, and even the calls to keep offenders locked away forever (Judging from threads on this board regarding recent events), cops receive nothing at all for abuse, sexual assault and murder.

There are likely cops on this board. Honestly, you may be the most honorable person ever, but after seeing that video, the fact that what is going on happens at all means that I cannot respect your badge. I cannot respect your office. I cannot respect your authority. Enough cops cover for the really bad ones that the entire profession is tainted and until the good cops really step up to clean up the system, then they are all bad cops.

 

[The_Thunderer]

I dunno... if aliens were watching the earth, do you think they should destroy ALL of us because of the "sins" of the few?

Just saying... I think you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater...

I know some very honorable policemen and women. I know that they work hard to keep me and our neighborhoods protected. The actions of a few should not reflect on these honorable men and women.

 

[mike17l]

I dunno... if aliens were watching the earth, do you think they should destroy ALL of us because of the "sins" of the few?

Just saying... I think you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater...

I know some very honorable policemen and women. I know that they work hard to keep me and our neighborhoods protected. The actions of a few should not reflect on these honorable men and women.

Ditto! I guess I am a horrible teacher, seeing as there is at least one at my school, so I must be one by association. :roflmao:

 

[Ricky87]

I don't often start threads, but a discussion on another forum about police brutality that started around a cop literally shoving a taser in someone's anus before shocking the victim, this video was linked.

(Note, there are parts that are horrifically graphic)
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=54162036

It's pretty sickening.

Cops in the US and Canada (No, really) are getting out of control. People are being killed and the cop(s) responsible are getting no punishment whatsoever. In a culture of fear that permeates North America, with the rising demands for minimum jail times, the draconian and (likely) unconstitutional sex offender registry in the US, and even the calls to keep offenders locked away forever (Judging from threads on this board regarding recent events), cops receive nothing at all for abuse, sexual assault and murder.

There are likely cops on this board. Honestly, you may be the most honorable person ever, but after seeing that video, the fact that what is going on happens at all means that I cannot respect your badge. I cannot respect your office. I cannot respect your authority. Enough cops cover for the really bad ones that the entire profession is tainted and until the good cops really step up to clean up the system, then they are all bad cops.

After watching this video it's impossible for me to disagree. I'm sure this is one of those things that people will take issue with, or say their relative is a cop and is the best person they know, but I have never and will never respect cops or their badges. If they are good people than I will always respect them, but never for their position in society. It's only too easy too become a police officer, and once they have that title they can do anything they want and many do.

I saw something on the news a while ago where a police officer beat a women in a bar, because she refused to serve him alcohol due to his already being drunk. He then punched over, and over, and over again while she was unconscious on the floor. Job status; still a cop. Same thing the other day when a sheriff broke in to a home illegally and stole thousands of dollars. Criminal charges; no. In fact the same sheriff is probably at the station drinking coffee as we speak, because he wasn't even suspended. There's no justice for Baron Pikes who was shocked to death, or Michael Bell who was murdered by the police the day before his wedding. Rodney King's case is still pending and they have that on tape, let alone all the people who are arrested with the only charge of "resisting arrest". How messed is that?. I say we change the whole system, and it starts with the police force. Just my opinion, and I'm sure many will disagree, but the stuff in this video goes on everyday!.

 

[The_Thunderer]

Well, then, just nuke us all! The actions of the few reflect on all of us. I must've been a bad pastor since there are a few bad pastors. I must be a bad father since there are a few bad fathers. I must be a bad man because there are a few bad men.

What NONSENSE! Such drivel...

 

[Nova_C]

This is the problem. The notion that "A few bad apples don't spoil the bunch" are allowing the bad apples to get away with murder.

That's not hyperbole.

The reason I say all cops are bad is because this problem has become systemic. When is that last time your friend, or relative, who is a cop testified against a fellow officer? Or arrested a fellow officer? There are not enough so called good cops to reign in the bad ones.

Hundreds of cops took part in that action in which they slowly blockaded the park until no one could leave and then arrested them all. Every single one a bad cop, violating the rights enshrined in the American Constitution, the very same constitution that is worshiped by many on this very board, is not protecting people from the police.

And you keep excusing them because "They're not all bad."

 

[Ricky87]

Well, then, just nuke us all! The actions of the few reflect on all of us. I must've been a bad pastor since there are a few bad pastors. I must be a bad father since there are a few bad fathers. I must be a bad man because there are a few bad men.

What NONSENSE! Such drivel...

All I'm saying is that there is no police to police the police. I'm scared everytime I see a cop, yet I've never broken any laws or had even a misdemeanor. Yes, some will say that's my problem, but they could shoot anyone of us and call it "necassary force". The system is very flawed, but I do respect any officer in it for true justice. Their the bravest people, but I just don't trust the majority. As for being a bad pastor, no way!. I respect everything you do to instill faith in people, but the power a pastor has is nothing to what a police officer has. I love all who do good in the world, but people who want that kind of power seldom want it only for protection. It's the title that's become glorified. I've seen a few police officers in my area and they all give the same look of disdain. The "I'm better than you" stare. If you trust them than that means you know some great ones, but end-all said-all they unnerve me!.

 

[The_Thunderer]

LOL... and you'd trust the police force of Russia... North Korea... Cuba... Iran... Venezuela... ?

Wow... There are "police who police the police". BUT, just as criminals, they can only catch them one at a time.

Go ahead put them all in the same category... but isn't this JUST like "profiling" that I'm sure you'd absolutely be against. It ISN'T okay to stop a suspicious looking Muslim when we were attacked by Muslims, BUT it IS okay to point a finger at EVERY policeman or policewoman because of the actions of some policemen or policewomen.

Really... I certainly hope that I'm not judged along with everyone else because of the actions of a relative few.

With such BROAD strokes, you condemn all humanity.

 

[Nova_C]

Did you even watch the video, Thunderer?

The bar brawl that a bunch of off duty cops started? When people called 911 a bunch of on duty cops were dispatched. When the on duty cops saw that it was off-duty cops who were attacking patrons of the bar, they drove right on past.

Ex-cops with hidden cameras went to random police stations to ask for the process on filing complaints. The cops at the desk refused to offer any information unless the person asking identified themselves, provided ID and their home address. When they refused, these undercover ex-cops were, in many cases, arrested.

For asking for information on how to file complaints.

Cops are covering for cops en masse. These are not isolated events. And again I point you to the people sitting in a park who were all arrested.

Just what kind of freedom is in America, anyway? Will you excuse the many for the virtue of the few?

 

[mike17l]

LOL... and you'd trust the police force of Russia... North Korea... Cuba... Iran... Venezuela... ?

Wow... There are "police who police the police". BUT, just as criminals, they can only catch them one at a time.

Go ahead put them all in the same category... but isn't this JUST like "profiling" that I'm sure you'd absolutely be against. It ISN'T okay to stop a suspicious looking Muslim when we were attacked by Muslims, BUT it IS okay to point a finger at EVERY policeman or policewoman because of the actions of some policemen or policewomen.

Really... I certainly hope that I'm not judged along with everyone else because of the actions of a relative few.

With such BROAD strokes, you condemn all humanity.

I repped for an earlier post in this thread, but if I hadn't dome that, this one would have got it. Well said.

 

[The_Thunderer]

Thanks, Mike... But really, I think it is just sad... If you and I were to condemn a certain population of people for the actions of a few, we'd be racists, or homophobes, or bigots, or the current "PC word" INTOLERANT... BUT, Nova C and Ricky87 - THEY get to be god and make all the correct judgments.

Nova C. I watched the video and I've seen many more like it. Assuming that everything in the video is ALL that happened, I AM disgusted by what I saw. I AM angry for what I saw. I DO want justice for what I saw.

BUT, the horrible, despicable, and unjustified actions of these policemen and women does NOT mean that EVERY policeman or policewoman is "bad". It does NOT mean that they next "badge" you see deserves to be spit upon. Don't you see it? If one of your neighbors is a rapist... are YOU? In a sense, you're just as bad as the cops who assumed the guilt of the kids skateboarding around their friend... or the policewoman who manhandled the innocent guy holding the camera... YOU are doing the same thing they are... unjustly accusing innocent people of a crime they didn't commit.

Also, in your first post, you included Canada... why are you now bashing the US alone in your last few posts? I guess bad Canada cops get a pass?

Again, I say, with such very broad strokes, you condemn all of humanity. If one of us is bad, then we're all bad. Guess you get to be judge, jury and executioner, huh? What makes you different from these "bad cops"?

 

[Nova_C]

There's a fundamental disconnect between our posts, Thunderer. You believe that these are isolated incidents. I believe that they are not. You believe that only the cops in the video are acting badly. I believe that all the cops that covered for them are acting badly as well. You believe that I am out of line for calling all cops to task for what transpired. I believe that all cops have a duty to keep each other in line.

No one offered up any examples of cops testifying against other cops, or arresting other cops. But you keep saying I'm out of line. No one showed any examples of cops being held accountable. But you keep saying I'm out of line.

For every cop that beats a suspect unconscious for no reason there is an entire precinct of police officers keeping them safe from prosecution. Every one of them is violating the public trust.

Why do we give people badges and guns, grant them special privileges and then hold them to a lower standard than the average citizen? Explain that one.

As far as Canadian cops go, I'm not giving them a pass, but it's tough to talk about these cases equally since the rights granted Americans by your constitution are more broad than the rights granted Canadians by our charter. Also, the video was expressly about US police. Also, lots more Americans on this board.

 

[El Jefe]

Maybe we should post a video of all the cops killed in the line of duty because they pulled over totally innocent people.

 

[Hypancistrus]

...I have never and will never respect cops or their badges. If they are good people than I will always respect them, but never for their position in society.

In one breath you say you have never and will never respect an officer... in the next you say if they are good you will respect them.... which is it?? I think I know....

I have heard of bad experiences with police officers. I have also heard of very good experiences with police officers. I agree with Mike and Thunderer... you're painting with a broad brush in a situation where it's a few incidents causing issue.

Anyone see the article about the teacher that tried to strangle his student? I believe it was in England? I guess that means that Mike and I are both going to try and strangle a few of ours this year too.

And you know what, Mike? I'll see your earlier statement and raise it... MANY of the teachers in my particular school are not good teachers who really do not give a crap. But that doesn't change the fact that some of us are, and do care and try to do our jobs to the best that we can.

It's only too easy too become a police officer, and once they have that title they can do anything they want and many do.

Including die for YOUR safety....

Thanks, Mike... But really, I think it is just sad... If you and I were to condemn a certain population of people for the actions of a few, we'd be racists, or homophobes, or bigots, or the current "PC word" INTOLERANT... BUT, Nova C and Ricky87 - THEY get to be god and make all the correct judgments.

Agreed... the gay guys on this board must all be pedophiles because I read a story about a gay guy who was a pedophile once.

And also, Tara and I hate men, because some lesbians hate men and we're lesbians.

And Nova... I saw your snide little comment about mine stating that a person who is and was a follower of Charles Manson needing to be locked up for life. I will say again.... are you familiar with Manson, his followers and their crimes??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Manson

They slaughtered a pregnant woman, along with many other people. The police never tied Fromme to the murders, but she BELIEVES in the man who ordered them, strongly enough to wave a gun in the face of the PRESIDENT. If you BELIEVE in things like that I don't want you living on my street. Like I said, mate, if you want her on YOUR street, we'll all chip in to ship her up to Canada.

The number of ex-cons who are later convicted again in this country are staggering. Raps sheets as long as their arms... and they are walking around free, allowed to escalate in their violence and depravity. Do I feel safer having police officers standing between me and them? Hell yeah.

I'd feel even safer to have prison block walls between me and them.

This country is probably the most lenient country in the world when it comes to felons... the "children" that shot up their school in Jonesboro, Arkansas, were released when they turned 18. Released to go back to their families and build a life in the same neighborhood where several families were making due without a loved one because those little punks murdered them.

Then again, at least one is now back in jail on drug charges and because when he was picked up he was carrying a hand gun, which was a violation of his parole.

But you're right... everyone deserves a second chance. Which of your family members are you going to sacrifice for the next "well behaved" convicts second chance?

 

[Rich in KY]

There are thousand and thousands of good cops who put their lives on the line for all of us everyday that they put on their uniform.

There are bad cops. But, they are the exception. I feel very safe because of the vast majority of good cops who do a thankless job.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

The issue I see with this is, once again, the media. Does the media like to show anything good that happens? Nope. They only show the bad because it helps get ratings. It also avoids cops arresting cops stories because of statements like this:

I cannot respect your badge. I cannot respect your office. I cannot respect your authority.

Who are you going to call if someone breaks into your house or car? Who are you going to call if you get into a car accident? Who are you going to call when someone is breaking into a neighbors house?

Yes, there are a few bad cops. But is that enough to condemn them all? Not in the least.

I repped for an earlier post in this thread, but if I hadn't dome that, this one would have got it. Well said.

Got him for ya. There's a few others I wanted to rep, but apparently, I've given out too much rep in the last 24 hrs.

 

[Nova_C]

Who are you going to call if someone breaks into your house or car? Who are you going to call if you get into a car accident? Who are you going to call when someone is breaking into a neighbors house?

My interactions with police have all been at their benefit. The one time I needed them they never showed up. Not a big deal. I do know that police work isn't any more dangerous than the average job. I'll try to dig up the stats, although I'm pretty sure none of you actually care what the reality is.

Hyp, what snide little comment? I asked a question. No one answered it and I've been hounded ever since.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

My interactions with police have all been at their benefit. The one time I needed them they never showed up. Not a big deal. I do know that police work isn't any more dangerous than the average job. I'll try to dig up the stats, although I'm pretty sure none of you actually care what the reality is.

Hyp, what snide little comment? I asked a question. No one answered it and I've been hounded ever since.

So a desk job where you sit at a computer all day and make phone calls is more dangerous than police work? I find that very hard to believe, and would like to find the stats on that. There was an officer here that was, not too long ago, shot in the line of duty and lost an eye. Many police officers have lost their lives in the line of duty. I find it very hard to believe that you can say the same about an accountant, or other similar profession.

When I've needed them, the police have always been a phone call away, and usually arrived in less than 5 minutes.

 

[Nova_C]

I never said an office job was more dangerous, I said police work wasn't more dangerous than the average.

Which isn't correct anyway. The majority of on-the-job deaths for cops are traffic accidents, the vast majority of which do not happen during emergency situations. A lot of cops in these accident fatalities were not wearing their seat belt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/h...=1107264596-NY8SdWdPncYYE/8PQaLd1g&oref=login

It's interesting that truck driving is much more dangerous work than policing, considering the number of deaths that result from regular traffic accidents.

Looking at this graph:

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/1999/Jun/wk5/art05.htm

It appears that the number of police killed by criminals is about 8 per 100,000, whereas the average on-the-job death rate is 5 per 100,000. If you include all on-job-fatalities, including traffic accidents, that number spikes to 14 per 100,000. So a cop is less than twice as likely to die while enforcing the law than the average person.

Still nowhere near as dangerous as fishing, farming or driving a cab. Doesn't sound like the level of danger this thread is suggesting.

Of course, fishers, farmers and cabbies aren't given special powers, they aren't armed by the state, and if they kill someone, they get charged with murder. Like I said, why are cops held to a lower standard?

Also, Mohrsnakes, when a cop does a random traffic stop, what's the likelihood of being killed?

 

[Cflaguy]

Having been a LEO....

I had a response and was ready to banned for a few days by my good friends Susan, Roy and Mike. But really I'm laughing my butt off.

BTW I arrested on LEO for a DUI, another in the same agency for shop lifting.

Two bits of advice.... just like when taking a true false test be careful of the word always......and.... sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut and appear smart than to open it and prove your ignorance.