THE THINGS PEOPLE DO...I NEED TO VENT

[TandJ]

For reasons above, that might be reason enough to say Customer Service skills suck, I just can't the gumption to get sales regardless of the skills of the keeper..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[PJ@PJCReptiles]

PJ, sorry to hear you stressing like this..

I read through about a page and half.. I get similair questions and well, people don;t like hearing the answers and just wanna wear thier rose coloured glasses..

If that happened to me, well, the darn eggs didn't make through icubation, which would really be hard to do in the belly of a Cali King.. I get stressed by a lot of of the things I see people doing with their critters and they seemingly have no passion or need to understand about what is likely to happen to them.. I feel for you ..


Regards.. Tim of T and J

I completely agree with you Tim. I just needed to vent. I sure as heck do not need past customers coming back to me years down the road with cohab issues and such!

P.S. I have not read the post completely because it seemed to be between a few other members and I was ok with that.

For reasons above, that might be reason enough to say Customer Service skills suck, I just can't the gumption to get sales regardless of the skills of the keeper..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

As for this comment, I am trying to not take it personally Tim. I hope you do not think my Customer Service skills suck.

I fair warned them and gave them all the right information. I did not NEED their sale back in the summer for 2007. In fact, I dont need any sales to go through. I have a tons of herp "friends" more than willing to take what I need to move for free. And that does not bother me. I just dont have the time or energy to "screen" all customers. I have learned that if they come across with the straight forward truth about what they are going to do with my snakes, I will from here on out be saying "NO Thank you, I do not think my snakes are for you" and they can go to the local pet store and get some ill, mite infected, unhealthy snake and I will not have to deal with them. But I do get calls from our local Police Station because of poor husbandry and lack of knowledge on Geckos that they didnt get from me. I think I am going to start charging a flat rate fee for my advise and "coming to just take a peek". I told the Police Sargent that they needed a vet visit and some meds but he said NOPE, I will just kill them. And that was an officer of the law....go figure!

Sorry once again for ranting. I respect you Tim and many others here. I was just so shocked and in awe in more of people and herps. See why the government wants to take our animals away from us and make it illegal to have them and breed them?????????

So everyone knows, the female did go home the next day. As for the eggs, they are in the incubator. I just may be offering them to good homes only for the price of shipping. I know I dont need them for any of my projects. But it is not their fault if they make it and are healthy. Me and my big dump heart as work once again.

PJ

 

[carnivorouszoo]

So everyone knows, the female did go home the next day. As for the eggs, they are in the incubator. I just may be offering them to good homes only for the price of shipping. I know I dont need them for any of my projects. But it is not their fault if they make it and are healthy. Me and my big dump heart as work once again.

PJ

Those poor things. Both the snakes and the eggs. I found a friend of mine cohabbing a ring neck and a sand boa (the boa is now mine) and helped him get properly set up for the ringneck. At least I hope its proper. I was afraid the boa would eat the ringneck. It was actually this thread that got him to give me the boa and properly house the other so I thank you all for sharing here. It made a difference.

 

[TandJ]

As for this comment, I am trying to not take it personally Tim. I hope you do not think my Customer Service skills suck.

Heck no, I think most people are a lot better at than myself with CS skills.... I do know I don't try very hard at times to move stuff.. Which is why I leave my prices a little higher too.. At least I know when I got someone intrested, they are really intrested! We have time invested in the animals, I could dump them for a cheap price, but in the back of my mind, I question if the cheap price is going to make cause for a disposiable pet.. I have had and still ahve people asking me if I will meet some one elses priceing.. I simply can't, because I don't need to be conected to the problems, I have to take a responsible stand for my own breedings.. Thus of course is why we are doing so few this year, because I have a feeling if HR 669 doesn;t kill us, the down tunring market will..


Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[KachineK]

Poor Momma snake. It s*cks when people don't listen to those in the know and decide that they can just do whatever they want. S*cks even more when they come back and complain that things didn't go right.

I hope the mother made it though okay after she went home. Have they updated you about her condition? Hope the people learned their lesson about co-habing (probably not). And I hope you get something really cool from those eggs. If not, I have a new tank itching for a new friend. lol One snake just isn't enough!

Kachine Kolgon

 

[PJ@PJCReptiles]

Those poor things. Both the snakes and the eggs. I found a friend of mine cohabbing a ring neck and a sand boa (the boa is now mine) and helped him get properly set up for the ringneck. At least I hope its proper. I was afraid the boa would eat the ringneck. It was actually this thread that got him to give me the boa and properly house the other so I thank you all for sharing here. It made a difference.

Yes it is a sad situation for both the momma and the eggs. I am very happy that my ranting has hopefully saved one snake for a nasty end! Kudos to you for being there!!!! The eggs are with me!

Heck no, I think most people are a lot better at than myself with CS skills.... I do know I don't try very hard at times to move stuff.. Which is why I leave my prices a little higher too.. At least I know when I got someone intrested, they are really intrested! We have time invested in the animals, I could dump them for a cheap price, but in the back of my mind, I question if the cheap price is going to make cause for a disposiable pet.. I have had and still ahve people asking me if I will meet some one elses priceing.. I simply can't, because I don't need to be conected to the problems, I have to take a responsible stand for my own breedings.. Thus of course is why we are doing so few this year, because I have a feeling if HR 669 doesn;t kill us, the down tunring market will..


Regards.. Tim of T and J

I hear you Tim, but we have to have faith here. Last I knew I lived in the great country of the United States of America! They just cant take all this away from us. The market will around, it is just the cycle of the economy which our families have seen since they came here! If I have to trade with good breeders like you and others to keep cornsnakes around for the future, I will! I am looking at some very nice morphs and believe me Tim, they will not be "throw away" animals for anyone! Keep your head up and know that Jay and I love you and Jen!!! Big hugs buddy!

Poor Momma snake. It s*cks when people don't listen to those in the know and decide that they can just do whatever they want. S*cks even more when they come back and complain that things didn't go right.

I hope the mother made it though okay after she went home. Have they updated you about her condition? Hope the people learned their lesson about co-habing (probably not). And I hope you get something really cool from those eggs. If not, I have a new tank itching for a new friend. lol One snake just isn't enough!

Kachine Kolgon

I am sure I will never know what happens with the momma, sad but true. I cant worry about all of them. This is a hard knocks lessons for me. And you know that people will never completely agree on the co-hab issues.


Please know that the momma snake did go home. She looked good for her size but I do know the risk. She did eat a fuzzy for me before going home. I did all I could do. I really thought she would end up egg bound and died right here with me. As for the eggs, I just couldnt let my kings eat them. They all look good. I do not plan on making a penny off from them. Time will tell and most of you will remember their start in life once they are hatched and ready for homes.

I have faith in this hobby, no matter what down turn our economy takes. We will rebound. We have too. If not, who else is going to keep snakes from becoming non-existence? We have to stay strong!! I know, wrong thread, but it is my thread...LOL.

Thank you all for the wonderful support. That is why I came to you all and vented! Big hugs and a :cheers:!

Smiles
PJ :wavey:

 

[PJ@PJCReptiles]

So here is the final chapter in this story...

Keep in mind that the parents of these "hatchlings" were barely 15 months old. She was cohabed with 2 other males! She started dropping 3 eggs in their tank. By the time they pick her up (still carrying 4 more eggs) and placed her and the whoops...5 eggs they found and put her and the eggs in a small bin with some tiny paper shavings.

I was of course upset as you have all read from the start. No, they have never called me to ask about the eggs or the "hatchlings". The first one pipped the other night so I left it alone. The next morning I went to do my rounds and than check the incubator. It was out!

BUT...when I opened the lid I could tell something was terribly wrong. It could not crawl like a snake at all! It was riddled with strange twisted kinks. So being the person I am, I slit all the other eggs open. ALL were dead! ALL were very deformed, small bubble heads, fat bodies that were all twisted and kinked, one didnt even have a heart!

In the four years we have been breeding on what we call a "bigger bases", we have never seen this in any of our animals. Let alone the parents of the 3snakes they had purchased! My Loveline Okeetee has been breeding without any issues always! My amels were from two other known breeder who have step out due to personal issues in their lives and demanding jobs. The incubator has been dead on this year for day one!

My lesson here is that I just dont see the need or the safety in breeding a corn or any other animal including dogs at such a young age. They were not fully developed to reproduce! So very damn sad and sickening in my book. I know we all have our believes on when to breed and when not to. But come on, two 15 month old corns weighing in at maybe 100 grams is so WRONG!!!!!!! I do not know if the female made it or not. At this point in time, I really do not want to know.

I had to pull each and everyone out of the egg. See the "freak" way genetics lined up. Not fair at all. I cried. It was very sad to see. I couldnt take pictures, it was gross and stinky. One even had a green yolk sack. The one without a heart a hole and its chest was caved in and it had a very tiny head.

SAD SAD SAD WRONG WRONG WRONG

Thank you all for your support in this matter! I do not know if I could ever do this again. Besides being too young, if you dont know how to move eggs and a gravid female, who knows what you are doing them.

Have a good weekend everyone!
PJ

 

[Em Wright]

Oh man, PJ.... that is so terrible. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this, especially the last part. I will keep you in my thoughts and hope these people have learned their lesson. Once again I'm so sorry! *HUGS*

 

[bekers71]

Wow PJ, I'm sorry it turned out that way. I can't imagine how you must be feeling at this moment. You did all you could do though and thats what matters. ((HUGS))

 

[*salAMANDA88*]

PJ...This just makes me sick. I knew that they would be bad off..heck I would have been happy to hear of all eggs not making it compaired to this story.

I am glad that you did what you could though...But now you know, for future issues with stupid people..and knowing reall is half the battle.
Love you tons and I also send warm hugs your way.Thank you though for posting this thread...it may help..even if its just one person who learns from this.


Talk to you soon.
~~'manda

 

[keisho25]

First off id like to offer my condolescences on the fallen lil guys/girls. Its so sad that people dont listen to the experienced herpers. and Im sure with this post that your tremendously sad story here will definately get to open the eyes to some people who believe in co-habbing. It is an aweful story but I think some people should here the nasty details in how co-habbing could go wrong. and I think you mad the best out of a bad situation.

 

[Chrissie&Coral&Lilly]

My snakes are separated and my oldest's sheding problem is no more thankfully

 

[PJ@PJCReptiles]

Oh man, PJ.... that is so terrible. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this, especially the last part. I will keep you in my thoughts and hope these people have learned their lesson. Once again I'm so sorry! *HUGS*

Thank you Emmie! *HUGS*

Wow PJ, I'm sorry it turned out that way. I can't imagine how you must be feeling at this moment. You did all you could do though and thats what matters. ((HUGS))

Becky I am not that surprised, more like really pi$$ed off at the whole thing. Thanks for the ((HUGS))

PJ...This just makes me sick. I knew that they would be bad off..heck I would have been happy to hear of all eggs not making it compaired to this story.

I am glad that you did what you could though...But now you know, for future issues with stupid people..and knowing reall is half the battle.
Love you tons and I also send warm hugs your way.Thank you though for posting this thread...it may help..even if its just one person who learns from this.

True Amanda! Hope it helps down the road.

First off id like to offer my condolescences on the fallen lil guys/girls. Its so sad that people dont listen to the experienced herpers. and Im sure with this post that your tremendously sad story here will definately get to open the eyes to some people who believe in co-habbing. It is an aweful story but I think some people should here the nasty details in how co-habbing could go wrong. and I think you mad the best out of a bad situation.

Thank you, it sure wasnt the babies fault for what happened. It is a sad reality of a bad situation for the 3 snakes involved.

My snakes are separated and my oldest's sheding problem is no more thankfully

So you snake's shed issues have resolved themselves? GREAT!! Sounds like it may have been stress related.

Thank you everyone!
PJ

 

[PJ@PJCReptiles]

P.S.

The owner of the female who this story is about, stopped into the pet shop my daughter is a manger of, and asked if the eggs had hatched yet!!!

She just didnt have the time or the words to tell him so she told him that she is working all the time and that he would have to call the house and ask.

I have not heard from him, and I really hope I dont.

PJ

 

[kaleidoscales]

My snakes are separated and my oldest's sheding problem is no more thankfully

great news....I keep a sphagnum moss moist hide in my tanks...it is simply a little tupperware(glad ware ) container with a hole in it... I have it half on the Uth... my thayeri kingsnake loves it... this helps in sheds and you dont have to worry about the humidity in the whole tank...

 

[kaleidoscales]

Just read this thread..

The owner of the female who this story is about, stopped into the pet shop my daughter is a manger of, and asked if the eggs had hatched yet!!!

She just didnt have the time or the words to tell him so she told him that she is working all the time and that he would have to call the house and ask.

I have not heard from him, and I really hope I dont.

PJ

Hi PJ I have talked with you on Rgeeks...I just read this thread.. I probably would nt be able to breed my snakes because I would be so worried about finding them good homes...so I could understand... 2 things that came to mind or my 2 cents...LOL... A friend of mine was going to breed and sell collie pups and she designed some paperwork that the people who were buying the puppies would have to sign.. I dont know if you have a care sheet(s) printed up but maybe you could and have the people sign it that they have read it and keep a copy for your self. Perhaps you could use this with people you dont know. Pictures.. of eggbound females or deformed eggs..rodent injury.. bad sheds etc and what to do could be included. That way you wouldnt have to remember every time.. I know there is plenty of good info on this site - but having your own sheets and having them read and sign it would give you a little more power over the situation.. Even comparisons like should a pre-teen human girl have a baby.. Its not to early for kids to learn --after all kids who grow up on farms learn alot about life and death early. My daughters grew up with lots of pets and some chickens and rabbits. they experienced the joy of birth and the sadness of loss.. some of us are more sensitive already to these things..but perhaps others just havent even given it a thought. Happy Hatching.

 

[Em Wright]

That's a really good idea, Kal. I never thought of writing up a contract/care sheet sort of thing. I know folks who breed dogs sometimes have contracts with specific terms for the animal. Why not do one for snakes?

I'm gonna have to look into this. Thanks for the ideas!!

PJ, if he does call I hope you give him the full details and tell him what his thoughtlessness caused. I wouldn't be gentle with him, he doesn't deserve it! *HUGS*

 

[PJ@PJCReptiles]

Thank you both. Yet, just how far is one going to go to purchase a base line amel or normal? I try to educate any new snake owners but like any other "pet", it really comes down to the new owners to do what is right.

Just like with the American Pitbull Terriers! I have 2 and they didnt come from very educated breeders/owners. It took me and my daughter doing some serious reading and research before we took on two of them. We continue to be responsible pet owners no matter what others may say, I am the one after all that owns "PITS" and it is only up to me to protect them from the stupid people.

I think the same goes for any pet, including owning snakes. All I can do is offer the proper information, books and websites and the rest is up to them. I have to take myself out of the situation at some point in time or I will go nuts.

Good Luck to both of you with your future plans for your snakes!
PJ

 

[The_Thunderer]

PJ, I really like Kal's idea with some additions. I bought some leos from a gal who lives in Tucson. She had a really nice "info packet" that came with each leo (included birth dates, lineage, weights, eating habits, etc. Weights included a graph showing weight gain since birth). Along with the packet was a caresheet and little contract saying that she had gone over that caresheet with me and that I understood how to care for the leos I had purchased. Because she really was attached to her leos, she also included a clause that said that I would call her if I ever needed to give them up. Of course, if you like that idea, you could include this clause or not.

The prior parts of the "contract" would remove any "obligation" on your part and the signed copy that you kept would be reinforcement should anyone want to "extend" your obligation to them.

I've never gone into business for myself (just sold a crapload of stuff on Ebay), so I know I'm missing some important things here... Just trying to be helpful!!!

Of course, if it isn't helpful, then just nix the idea altogether. LOL.

 

[Corny Noob]

Oh my goodness PJ I just read the whole topic, you really went above and beyond for the love of your snakes
Goodness that's terrible *hugs*