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The US flag is offensive ...

"We all knew"? Who are you speaking for in this case, other than yourself?

At any rate, the Swastika has been in use for a very long time, notably by the Hindu religion. However, if I was to fly a flag with a Swastika on it, would you consider that offensive?


Also, the question asked was "I would really like to know what is offensive about the rebel flag." I answered that question; That is, the Confederate flag is associated with the history of slavery in the American south. Accusing me of trolling because I answered that question is immature, Robbie.

That would depend on the Swastika being flown. Much like the pentagram, the angle of display completely alters the meaning. The Swastika shaped more like a "t" would be perfectly fine by me. However, the more "x" shaped Swastika would offend me (even though my great-grandfather fought in WWII on the German side, was captured, and tortured by Americans).

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt when it regards racial, or potentially racial, situations. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but the only times I've ever seen you post, it leads to fights. Coincidence? :shrugs:

They make underwear with the American flag on it, where's all of the protesting for that. This man was said to have fought for our country, and now we're armchair quarterbacking his rights to protest. I never see people having outrage over real problems like homelessness and child abuse, but bring up the flag and everyone starts humbugging. Seriously, no body here has the right to be outraged over what this guy did, they can find it personally offensive, but to be outraged paper soldiers over this is a little dramatic.
Nova C made some great points about the confederate flag, as did Robbie and Vestuvates. I personally find it offensive when I see the Confederate flag, probably because I live way up north, and the only Confederate flags I see people having are huge, like a big F-U. But people have the right to fly them, just as someone has the right to fly an upside down American flag if they choose.

There's underwear with a Confederate flag on them, too. And yeah, I have a pair. Does that make me a racist? :shrugs: I'll let you decide.
There's clothing of all sorts with nearly every flag of every nationality represented in the United States. It's just another gimmick to make money. While I don't necessarily agree with it, it would be pointless to argue it.

As far as homelessness and child abuse go, well, no one on here has ever started a real debate about them. Although I've got quite a few choice words to speak about the "Feed the Children" and other programs like that that focus their efforts overseas. But that's for another thread.
 
...I never see people having outrage over real problems like homelessness and child abuse, but bring up the flag and everyone starts humbugging. ...
What planet do you reside on? I think most here in this country find child abuse absolutely atrocious. I also can't recall anyone being in favor of homelessness. If you want to discuss those topics start a thread and I am sure there will be many posts.

...Seriously, no body here has the right to be outraged over what this guy did, ...
Incorrect! The same constitution that protects his right to do what he did also protects my right to be "outraged" over it.
 
Oh man I have stayed away from this for a reason, but since it's already so friendly heres my 2 cents. Any defamation of the flag is offensive, but on your own private property your business not that of the police and what they did in removing it was inappropriate...though I think that guys an idiot. The confederate flag was about the south fighting for their rights which did include slavery, but that was only one of many freedoms they sought and not in any way a representitive meaning of that flag at all. Like the swastica and any other symbol flags are loaded with meaning individual to the person possessing it. When my son was born his fathers grandfather gave me a mobile of sorts composed of four german fighting planes one with a swastica. At first my ignorance had me horrified and speachless thinking about the hollocaust and discrimination toward jews- thats what the swastica meant to me...remember ignorance! I guess the look on my face was obvious because he then explained his father who fought in ww2 gave this to him when he was a young boy. It symbolized his country germany, the friends and family they lost, and all the other rights they sought in that war that had little to do with jews. It was an heirloom not a recist symbol and it proudly hangs in my sons room today...he will be 5 in 4 days.
 
And for all of you yanks all scurred of the confederate flag, you just need to come on down here and see how kind, hospitable, and accommodating we are, in the South (of 2009).

No need to worry.......until you get lost in the woods and start hearing "Dueling Banjos". :D ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_Banjos
 
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Agree 1000%. Some people see it differently, but this is as close to the truth as anyone knows it. Abraham Lincoln wanted to abolish slavery, and most of the men in the south rejected him, so then their was civil war. The Confederate Flag was born from this point in history, and it symbolizes the lingering desire of some people who wish America was the way it used to be, primarily due to slavery. For me I, I see no heritage in it that is not corrupt and tainted, and I get offended every time I see one.


First, for the record, I am a native Southerner, had several ancestors fight for the Confederate States and am very proud of my heritage. More importantly, I am a native South Carolinian and even more proud of that part of my heritage. However, my statements are based on facts that if one researches enough, they can confirm. Too many times, too many times in fact, people speak out of ignorance rather than knowledge. Ricky, your statement quoted above may be the most ignorant in this entire thread.

Quick history lesson, Abraham Lincoln was a great president and did what was required to save the Union and that is wonderful, but he was a white supremicist, period. That is a fact, look it up. When in Chicago, Lincoln was answering questions during the war (I think that is the correct location), he was asked if he thought blacks were equal to whites. He said he felt it was quiet evident that whites were superior in intellect and ethics, however, he felt blacks were human beings and no human should have the right to enslave another human being. Don't get angry at me, that is his feelings, I am simply posting them. He did not start out at the begining of the war fighting to end slavery. The war began when the Country of SC fired on Fort Sumter, it didn't begin when Lincoln "decided it was time to abolish slavery.: See more below

The majority of Northern enlisted soldiers were in for a 2 year commitment and at the two year point in the war they were tierd, non committed and ready to go home. Lincoln really began to drive the slavery issue home in an attempt to light a new fire in the belly of the northerners and it worked, they had a surge of new and re-enlistments as a result. The fact is that the War of Northern Aggression was fought for states rights. This country was not founded on the belief that the federal government should be the controling body, the states were to do this. Sad thing is, nothing is changed. I will not say slavery was not a part of the reason the war was fought, it was but a small portion and was later utilized to light a fire for the cause to save the Union. Good thing it did or we would likely all be speaking German after the first WW ehh?

The Confederate flag is a symbol of southern slavery.

Learn your history, the flag was a naval flag originally and was only used by a handful of regiments as a "battle flag." Most state regiments had their own battle flags and did not adopt the "Battle Flag". You really need to research and learn what the war was truly fought over as a whole, not one portion only.

I think it's rather amazing what young people are led to believe in the name of "being pc"...
It's like they are trained to kneejerk without knowing the whole story,...
but I guess ignorance really is bliss, it's much easier to take what is spoonfed to you rather than actually THINK.


I think we are on the same page, people of all ages and races should educate themselves before speaking. If the "Rebel Flag" is so offensive to so many people, primarily people of color, then why do they continue to celebrate the 4th of July? Here is everyone's chance to research why I make this question. It is legitimate and really not that difficult to gain an answer too if you really want to put the time into the research.

dc
 
and please tell me how the rebel flag stands for slavery....

How is it extremism? If you don't like something just don't gripe about it. You have a problem, get away from it.
 
I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt when it regards racial, or potentially racial, situations. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but the only times I've ever seen you post, it leads to fights. Coincidence? :shrugs:

Must be. I have over 600 posts to date. Are you saying I've started hundreds of fights on this board and no moderator has ever noticed?

Anyway, I'll re-iterate one more time since people keep telling me to learn the history of the Confederate flag: It's a symbol of southern slavery. What it's origins are, are irrelevant. I gave the swastika and it's corruption because of Nazi Germany. There have been posts since mine explaining how even a Nazi Swastika can symbolize something other than the holocaust, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone sees it they associate it with the holocaust. Just as when many people see the Confederate flag they associate it with slavery.

It's interesting how my personal feelings on the Confederate flag have never been asked, only assumed. Like I said before, a question was asked and I answered. I have claimed nothing more than that. If you feel that the history of the flag makes the opinion of those who see it as a symbol of slavery incorrect, that's fine, I don't necessarily disagree, but it doesn't change the fact that that is why they see it as offensive. Talk to them if you don't like it.
 
Must be. I have over 600 posts to date. Are you saying I've started hundreds of fights on this board and no moderator has ever noticed?

Anyway, I'll re-iterate one more time since people keep telling me to learn the history of the Confederate flag: It's a symbol of southern slavery. What it's origins are, are irrelevant. I gave the swastika and it's corruption because of Nazi Germany. There have been posts since mine explaining how even a Nazi Swastika can symbolize something other than the holocaust, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone sees it they associate it with the holocaust. Just as when many people see the Confederate flag they associate it with slavery.

It's interesting how my personal feelings on the Confederate flag have never been asked, only assumed. Like I said before, a question was asked and I answered. I have claimed nothing more than that. If you feel that the history of the flag makes the opinion of those who see it as a symbol of slavery incorrect, that's fine, I don't necessarily disagree, but it doesn't change the fact that that is why they see it as offensive. Talk to them if you don't like it.

Then let me rephrase:
The only posts I have ever seen you make have been on "hot topic" threads, and were usually incredibly controversial, or only appear when said hot topics are generally on track and need some "mixing up". That doesn't mean that you haven't made other posts, that just means that I haven't seen them.

I'm pretty sure the phrase
Nova_C said:
The Confederate flag is a symbol of southern slavery.
shares your views on the matter rather succinctly. There was no beating around the bush, or long explanations. And if not, you should have worded it differently. "Most people view the Confederate flag as a symbol of southern slavery. However, I believe..." Get my drift?

I don't necessarily feel that the history makes their opinion wrong (everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as proven by this thread alone), I just think they need to do a bit more research before jumping to conclusions.
 
I
It's not like that at all. He has rights, even rights to be a fool, but he's and American citizen just expressing his freedom. Ya, in this case it got abused, but to say "Get out!" is a bit harsh. If America truly is a free country, than this shouldn't even be about rights. It's just about "Was this morally acceptable?!.".

I didn't mean forcefully....
Agree 1000%. Some people see it differently, but this is as close to the truth as anyone knows it. Abraham Lincoln wanted to abolish slavery, and most of the men in the south rejected him, so then their was civil war.

the civil war was NOT about slavery!!! it was about states rights..

And once again, we all knew it was only a matter of time before you appeared to stir the pot.
I just put this post and noticed it got people upset, so just know I'm not "stirring the pot".

He was talking about NovaC. and yes, nova is stirring stuff up.

"We all knew"? Who are you speaking for in this case, other than yourself?

I knew. it was bound to happen.

Must be. I have over 600 posts to date. Are you saying I've started hundreds of fights on this board and no moderator has ever noticed?

He never said that you did hundreds. But most of your posts are from starting and engaging in the fights. Not all of them were the starters. And when you aren't starting up a fight you post stupid stuff that means nothing...

i'm to tired tonight to reply to any more of the posts. so, see ya tommorow
 
There was no beating around the bush, or long explanations. And if not, you should have worded it differently. "Most people view the Confederate flag as a symbol of southern slavery. However, I believe..." Get my drift?

Hmm, I do.

I agree that a symbol can mean many things to many people and no single group can monopolize a symbol. However, I also believe that it is either foolish, naive, ignorant or provocative to dismiss the opinion of a significant number of people. Enough people believe that the Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery to essentially make it true.

Here's the thing. I would never assume that someone who displays the Confederate flag as a supporter of slavery outright, nor would I assume they're a racist. My initial foray into the resurrection of this thread was based on my constant confusion over the emphasis placed on the integrity of the US flag. That is, to me, a symbol should not carry that kind of power. You can take that belief and apply it here as well: To say that someone who flies the Confederate flag is a slaver or racist using only the flag itself as evidence of that claim would give the symbol undue importance.

I respect a nation's flag as a symbol, I also respect the people that protect that flag. I love my country and I display my nation's flag with pride. But I draw the line at judging someone not only by the flag they fly, but the manner in which they fly it.

Addendum: Some of you accuse me of starting fights in a thread in which there has been no fighting as of yet. You then call me a troll, accuse me of saying things I have not said and call my posts stupid and meaningless. Whose trying to start a fight here?
 
This is turning into a confederate flag debate, when the post was about an upside down American flag, in a thread called "the US flag is offensive..".
People from the south (and all over) have ancestors that fought in the civil war, many for a better life, some to keep slavery alive, and the flag represents all of it. Who knows what the confederate soldiers were thinking, it was a different time, and racism was common all over America, and their were plenty of racist yanks I'm sure. Whether right or wrong, the soldiers gave their lives to fight for their freedom. They were regular people with families to care for, and people should be able to honor them however they please.
But the fact remains that the confederate flag is viewed as offensive, and for just reasons. Was it not appropriated by the KKK and other extremist white supremest organizations? That doesn't mean people who fly it are necessarily racist, but it does come with meanings associated with slavery and racism.
If people paid attention to Nova C, his point was that whether particular people accept it or not, certain symbols represent hatred. Just as the swastika implies a negative past, the confederate flag does too.
 
But the fact remains that the confederate flag is viewed as offensive, and for just reasons. Was it not appropriated by the KKK and other extremist white supremest organizations? That doesn't mean people who fly it are necessarily racist, but it does come with meanings associated with slavery and racism.
If people paid attention to Nova C, his point was that whether particular people accept it or not, certain symbols represent hatred. Just as the swastika implies a negative past, the confederate flag does too.

It is only offensive by those who choose to view it offensively and not necessarily for just reasons but out of ignorance. It also comes with meanings associated with slavery and racism by those who choose to see those meanings. Can you imagine living in a world where all you worried about was offending someone?! No matter what you do,wear,say or believe, there will be someone in this country that will be offended. Does that matter to me? Not one bit and it never will. I know my beliefs and what different things mean and symbolize to me. Nobody likes to be stereotyped.

And wasn't the snake used as a symbol of the devil and hell?! Doesn't the image of a snake still symbolize that for a lot of religious fanatics? Gosh, I sure hope I'm not offending them!
 
Must be. I have over 600 posts to date. Are you saying I've started hundreds of fights on this board and no moderator has ever noticed?

Anyway, I'll re-iterate one more time since people keep telling me to learn the history of the Confederate flag: It's a symbol of southern slavery. What it's origins are, are irrelevant. I gave the swastika and it's corruption because of Nazi Germany. There have been posts since mine explaining how even a Nazi Swastika can symbolize something other than the holocaust, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone sees it they associate it with the holocaust. Just as when many people see the Confederate flag they associate it with slavery.

It's interesting how my personal feelings on the Confederate flag have never been asked, only assumed. Like I said before, a question was asked and I answered. I have claimed nothing more than that. If you feel that the history of the flag makes the opinion of those who see it as a symbol of slavery incorrect, that's fine, I don't necessarily disagree, but it doesn't change the fact that that is why they see it as offensive. Talk to them if you don't like it.
Nova, what on earth? You can't be serious.

If you think only and muchly of slavery when you see the confederate flag, that means you have a very narrow mind about a very significant period of time in american history. And have a very narrow mind about who we are and what we are as southerners.
Almost all of my greatx3 grandfathers fought in the Civil War. And all on the confederate side. But they were not responsible for slavery, nor did they own any slaves. They were hardworking farmers and frontiersmen. They loved and they thrived and they suffered and they died. They were handsome, and ugly. They were complex.

My college german professor was a young woman when Hitler was killing jews. But that is not the beginning and end of her being.

You, I gather live in Canada...but I don't hold you, or most particularly your forefathers responsible for banishing the french Acadians and deporting them from Canada.
Do you feel responsible for the taking of the Acadian's land?
Do you feel hurt when you look at a Canadian flag, because you displaced Acadians from their land?? Who had displaced Native Americans, to whom the land really belonged???
That you live on stolen ground? Just like us americans, when it boils down to it.
 
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