Visually IDing RO vs Amel in hatchlings?

[Duae]

Hit a new-to me SC petco while on vacation, looking for hidden treasure.

They had their baby corn, four obvious amel, two normals. I am about 90% sure the normal are Okeetee-look. I've looked at lots and lots of different normal babies, and these had the thickest black borders I've seen on 'normals'. One had a silver-gray background and the other much browner.

One amel was very red, dark saturated saddles and very reddish background.
Three had red saddles, tiny spots of white background color, large 'skin-pink' borders around each saddle.

I really really wish I'd gotten a picture on my phone!

This sound like I could have found Reverse Okeetees and Okeetee-look?

Or is RO vs. regular Amel a total game of chance unless you know the parents?

 

[jessicashallperish]

I bred a candycane to an amel with no white and my results were 95% reverse okeetees. some DID color up more than others but i have a picture of what one looks like after 9 months she was one of the lower white hatchlings and seems to be keeping a decent bit of white. idk if this helps or not

 

[starsevol]

Hit a new-to me SC petco while on vacation, looking for hidden treasure.

They had their baby corn, four obvious amel, two normals. I am about 90% sure the normal are Okeetee-look. I've looked at lots and lots of different normal babies, and these had the thickest black borders I've seen on 'normals'. One had a silver-gray background and the other much browner.

One amel was very red, dark saturated saddles and very reddish background.
Three had red saddles, tiny spots of white background color, large 'skin-pink' borders around each saddle.

I really really wish I'd gotten a picture on my phone!

This sound like I could have found Reverse Okeetees and Okeetee-look?

Or is RO vs. regular Amel a total game of chance unless you know the parents?

You might have, but...and this is just my opinion now....I wouldn't get anything from there for several reasons.....

1) I like to support breeders who love cornsnakes are passionate about cornsnakes, know about cornsnakes, and keep cornsnakes because they love cornsnakes. Not huge corperations that love profit and will sell anything and everything if people will buy it.

2) Breeders will have an amazing selection of babies in colors you have never even seen before that have eaten at least 3 times and usually will come with feeding records. Also you can see pictures of the parents.

3) The animals at big box pet shops are commonly kept together in the same tank. That practice saves space for the store, but it is not good for the animals.

4) Some of those places have employess who are afraid of the animals or don't know anything about them.

5) Some of those places try to feed them crickets.

6) Some of the animals have mites.

7) Do a google search on where many of those animals come from. Start with petcowherethepetsdie......

If it is an okeetee or a reverse okeetee you want, there are breeders here whose babies knock the socks off of anything any big box store has to offer!

 

[Guruofchem]

I've found that the trick to dealing with big box stores is to talk to the individuals who care for their reptiles. If you know enough about your particular animal, you will be able to spot whether that reptile manager knows and cares properly for the animals or not. I refuse to do business with ones that do not properly care for their animals (I also report them to corporate - not sure it works, but I feel better) and give all my business to local shops that know their stuff or big boxes who do right by the critters.

An easy way to check is to ask how they care for their crested geckos - above 80 degrees, below 50% humidity are all bad signs, and if they only feed crickets or mealworms just walk out. I've seen these poor tropical rainforest lizards in leopard gecko climates - 90+ F and 20% humidity. Makes me want to pound sense into someone with a ball peen hammer...

 

[MotleyMedusa7]

this is a link to a progression thread for my R.O. -I knew when I first saw him he would be a nice one--- http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116914

I have another R.O. which appeared(got her before the other one) like she would have nice borders in the beginning,but the red has bled into the white more than I would've liked. Her mother is a nice R.O.,but not at defined as the one I bought from Strange Cargo.She was the result of a random breeding, he was selectively bred to be that nice...I think it's definately worth looking into a breeder who does selective breeding if you want the assurance it will turn out to be exceptional.


here's the female as a hatchling & 1 1/2 yrs old:

 

[starsevol]

I've found that the trick to dealing with big box stores is to talk to the individuals who care for their reptiles. If you know enough about your particular animal, you will be able to spot whether that reptile manager knows and cares properly for the animals or not. I refuse to do business with ones that do not properly care for their animals (I also report them to corporate - not sure it works, but I feel better) and give all my business to local shops that know their stuff or big boxes who do right by the critters.

An easy way to check is to ask how they care for their crested geckos - above 80 degrees, below 50% humidity are all bad signs, and if they only feed crickets or mealworms just walk out. I've seen these poor tropical rainforest lizards in leopard gecko climates - 90+ F and 20% humidity. Makes me want to pound sense into someone with a ball peen hammer...

Even if you do all that, and the store passes your test, my reasons #1, #2 and #7 are good reasons to never go to those places in the first place (at least to me).

Not only that, I try not to even enter those places so there is less chance of bringing airbourne illnesses home to my pet ratties, or mites back home to my snakes.

 

[Nanci]

Reverse Okeetees aren't really Okeetees, anyway. It's a selectively-bred variation of amel, with thick white borders. Extreme ROs are more white than colored.

 

[Guruofchem]

Even if you do all that, and the store passes your test, my reasons #1, #2 and #7 are good reasons to never go to those places in the first place (at least to me).

Not only that, I try not to even enter those places so there is less chance of bringing airbourne illnesses home to my pet ratties, or mites back home to my snakes.

Fair enough, and I wholeheartedly agree with supporting good breeders and local businesses, and the disease exposure is a legit concern, especially for a breeder such as yourself. Not all big box stores are badly run, just as not all breeders are reputable - I was merely giving advice for someone who may need/want to use such a business, enabling them to judge whether that particular location might be safe to use.

 

[starsevol]

Fair enough, and I wholeheartedly agree with supporting good breeders and local businesses, and the disease exposure is a legit concern, especially for a breeder such as yourself. Not all big box stores are badly run, just as not all breeders are reputable - I was merely giving advice for someone who may need/want to use such a business, enabling them to judge whether that particular location might be safe to use.

Oh I understand completely!
If someone has to use such an outlet, your advice makes a ton of sense!

 

[Duae]

I figure being able to tell babies apart (if possible) is important since not all breeders are reputable, breeders can make mistakes, and at reptile shows anything can go! My very first time at a show as a beginner I bought a snake the seller assured me was a Candy Cane. She's a regular ol' Amel. I love her dearly, but today I would not make that mistake "Oh, that orange on her will go away when she gets bigger" Ha.

 

[wildlifephotographer]

I have been very disappointed in some of the vendors that I've gotten baby corn snakes from last year. I went to the Indy Reptile Expo at the state fair grounds and bought from two different vendors on the same trip and even though I still have the adult that I got from a vendor and she's in okay shape visually. She is very jumpy and nervous about being handled and is picky about eating. She doesn't bite but she's jumpy/sensitive to touch. She's a 4yr oldish female normal motley and she has a lot of visual imperfections you can feel and see. So I wasn't to happy about that. The other person I got a few babies from -well they both were very sick and died. One died just a few days after I got him and the other one died a month after I got her.

 

[wildlifephotographer]

I've also had one of my babies that I got from Doc Snakes die on me. I still have my amber stripe female that I got from him but the male butter stripe died. He had sent me another one but unfortunately that one escaped his new enclosure last October never to be found.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Not to send this thread wildly off topic, but why would buy a snake with that many visual imperfections? Did you handle the snake before the purchase?

It's a two sided issue. On one side breeders need to have quality offspring, and the second side is consumers need to make educated purchasing choices.

Do research and homework prior to purchasing from any source, breeders and pet stores included.

 

[wildlifephotographer]

My first 4 corn snakes came from pet stores here close to home. I got my very first girl Diamond who is almost 7 yrs old from the pet store in our mall here. I got my next three corns from Petco and my fifth corn Kasper from the Indy Reptile show back in 2009. These are all what I call my 5 original babies! All of them so precious to me and I couldn't be happier with how they turned out! Plus, I got to breed them and find out that they had some cool hets!

 

[BloodyBaroness]

I've also had one of my babies that I got from Doc Snakes die on me. I still have my amber stripe female that I got from him but the male butter stripe died. He had sent me another one but unfortunately that one escaped his new enclosure last October never to be found.

That is the reason for the big "check the BOI" warning on certain areas of the forum. Doc has a history..... http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202547&highlight=walker

 

[wildlifephotographer]

I did handle her before buying her but I didn't see the imperfections in such a low light area at the show... and it was crowded and busy so very hard to do a very good job of checking her out! Same with the babies I got that died on me they both were very active and seemed just fine when I got them out to hold them. I could not tell that they were sick at the time.

 

[diamondlil]

she's in okay shape visually.

she has a lot of visual imperfections you can feel and see.

I did handle her before buying her but I didn't see the imperfections in such a low light area at the show...

I don't understand how these statements are worded, because they conflict with each other. You say your snake has visual imperfections. VISUAL imperfections that you can feel. You handled the snake and didn't see or feel the imperfections.
So just to clear it up a little, what are the imperfections?

 

[wildlifephotographer]

Sorry, for the confusing wording. I had an accident yesterday and so I can't make sense of what I try to say sometimes. It hurts to type right now, I know what I want to say but it comes out/typed wrong. I checked her out when I bought her but I didn't feel anything unusual at the show, it was a quick once over check because it was so busy and crowded around the area I was in and the light was very dim. She was very jumpy when I got her out but I figured she was just nervous because of the commotion around that table. After I made the purchase and took her out again I felt the imperfections on her body and visually noticed a few nicks in her skin and areas where she looked to have been scared or scratched by maybe a live mouse. She feels bumpy in spots and has a bulge at her vent or a wider area close to her cloaca/hips I guess. It was also the same at the table I bought the caramel male and the butter female babies that I got.

 

[wildlifephotographer]

Just clear things up more about the babies I got from Doc... I think the BOI on him is not true even though I had one of my babies die that I got from him he didn't have any issues with me asking him if he could send me another one without charging me anything for it. He was not rude at anytime that I was dealing with him and my female that I got is doing excellent and has never missed a meal since I've had her. The butter stripe male I got just did not want to keep his food down no matter what. I don't think it has anything to do with Doc not being a good breeder or care giver to his snakes/reptiles.

 

[diamondlil]

Sorry, for the confusing wording. I had an accident yesterday and so I can't make sense of what I try to say sometimes. It hurts to type right now, I know what I want to say but it comes out/typed wrong. I checked her out when I bought her but I didn't feel anything unusual at the show, it was a quick once over check because it was so busy and crowded around the area I was in and the light was very dim. She was very jumpy when I got her out but I figured she was just nervous because of the commotion around that table. After I made the purchase and took her out again I felt the imperfections on her body and visually noticed a few nicks in her skin and areas where she looked to have been scared or scratched by maybe a live mouse. She feels bumpy in spots and has a bulge at her vent or a wider area close to her cloaca/hips I guess. It was also the same at the table I bought the caramel male and the butter female babies that I got.

In that case I don't really think you can blame the vendor, as they allowed you to handle and inspect the snake before purchase. A harsh lesson in what not to do at shows.