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When to give up on nonfeeders

I have three babies who hatched a month and a half ago, and have still not accepted food. I'm losing hope. I've attempted: teasing, braining, slitting, boiling, heads, tails, scenting w/ tuna, the deli cup method, the paper bag method, feeding live, and moving their containers to a dark, cool, quiet room while I offer food, and I do this every 4 days.
They aren't growing and I get worried at their lack of energy.
I have not tried force feeding, as it's stressful to them, and they often do not take food after that.
I'm going to continue to alternate between these methods, but does anyone else have ideas? Is there a way to make them take food without a syringe??

My last non-feeder began eating readily after boiled, so I'm at a loss. This is my first clutch, and I'm extremely upset about this. I DO NOT want to give up on these guys, but I'm wondering when I should.
 
Never.

I think that the blue colored Dawn dishsoap is the latest tactic, Nanci suggested in in this list of posts.

Keep trying, and I will send happy eating thoughts to your kiddos!

soapy snakes
 
I had a friend who tried for a year before giving up. My ball python had to be force fed for 6 months before he ate on his own.
 
Nanci generally recommends Ivory first. I have done dawn since that is what I use and have had good luck. I actually have one of Nanci's first Ivory eating snakes here. Her name is obviously Ivory and she is an amazing eater now. Never misses a meal and has caught up to her sister weight wise. Oh and I don't have to wash her food now.
 
You might try an anole, or some appropriate lizard before force feeding. I think lizards are the go-to for corns if they really don't want to eat, and you have tried all the other options. I guess cheap lizards are not always easy to get though.
 
Force feeding tails isn't too stressful. If you have a baby who won't tease feed (kind of rare) then cut a piece of weanling or adult mouse tail, about 1.5 inches in length, thaw it, wet it, gently open the snake's mouth and insert the thick end of the tail. I twist it to help it go down rather than just pushing. Often the baby will start to swallow himself. I try to encourage this.

I keep going through my list of tricks, on a 5-7 day interval, and then, if the baby refuses as expected, give him a mouse tail.

For tease feeding, are you doing it "right?" I hold the baby about an inch down his neck, and _jab_ him with the pinks head, to get him to strike. It works better if you jab him in the neck, not the nose or face. You often only get one or two chances, so you have to have the pink's head aimed correctly. It's easier with a boiled pink. Most babies will readily strike multiple times, and once he connects with the pink, freeze. He will either proceed to swallow, or drop it. If he drops it, keep trying until he stops striking. Once he takes it and holds it, you kind of have to get a feel for the next move. If the baby is difficult to get to strike and feed, I will keep a somewhat tight hold on him and let him _barely_ creep through my fingers, since they often drop if allowed to run with it. I also keep them from touching any surface. If the baby readily strikes and proceeds to feed, I will hold more loosely and let them crawl down to the feeding surface if they want. Make sure you are in a comfortable position before starting, because you may have to be there for a long time. I like to sit at a desk with something to rest my elbows on. I think I used to be less successful with tease feeding because I was less aggressive about it. They call it "slap feeding" for a reason. Also- most baby cornsnakes will instinctively bite if touched in that certain place on the neck, about an inch below the head. Take advantage of that reflex.

Also- just because a baby refuses one type of dish soap, that doesn't mean he will refuse others. Ivory, followed by Dawn, are the most successful, but try those two plus others. I have a Dawn eater right now who refused Ivory.

You might want to try, carefully, the water deprivation method. You can take away the water bowl for a couple days, and then offer a soaking wet pink. I'd make sure the baby is well-hydrated, by soaking, before removing the water, so you have a known starting point.

I have two non-feeders from the end of June who have only had two mouse tails each. They are maintaining their post-shed weight all right. I'm nowhere near giving up, though I am starting to get a little frustrated. I lost a baby who was very dear to me by not being aggressive enough in feeding attempts- by slap feeding or forcing mouse tails, and it will never happen again. It seems hopeless, but I have _never_ had a baby I commenced force feeding not go on to become a normal, eager feeder eventually. It often happens a lot sooner than you'd think. And tease feeders are quite common and fairly easy to wean off tease feeding.

Another thing to try is, back off your attempts to every 5-7 days, and get a tail down them so you at least get some calories in. Maybe two consecutive feedings of tails. Then re-cycle through the most successful tricks- boiling, Ivory, Dawn, tuna water, chicken broth, and if the baby won't take it in the deli cup, then leave the pink in the baby's bin overnight, possibly in a squished TP roll hide. I've had a number of babies who just will not feed in a deli cup, but who will reliably feed in their bin, overnight. Alternatively, if that doesn't work, try them in a deli cup overnight.
 
I have never had a brand new snake that I had to use more than three or four methods to get it to eat. I have never had to use the lizard method myself, but I would lizard scent before actually feeding the lizard. A month and a half seems like a long time to have never eaten before. Force feeding is definitely not unreasonable, but I have never had to go that far even though I have owned snakes since my childhood.

If I ever had any feeding issues I just went straight from the book. The first thing I do, and I try it more than once, is to just leave the mouse in the cage over night. If it doesn't work then I brain the pink, and if it doesn't eat right then I just leave it in the cage over night. If that doesn't work then I tease feed. These methods are all highly successful. The only snake that did not want to eat after tease feeding, had a good reason I guess. I used a new mouse company, and even I noticed the difference in the mice. They had a bad smell to them. I new they were fine to use, but there must have been a difference in keeping or packaging procedures. In this case I just washed the mice with a small amount of Dawn, and the snake fed right in front of me as though there was never an issue.

I found the last method the strangest, but it is definitely reasonable. I have had one snake that none of this worked on, and I fed it either one or two live mice, and after that accepted f/t without any special tricks. At the one month mark (which is rare) I become worried, and begin to consider force feeding. Fortunately, I have not had to use this method, but I have seen it done. Although it is not a good circumstance to be in, I would consider a good skill to posses for snake keeping.
 
One of the most common problems I see in these situations, is offereing food too frequently, stressing the snake out, adding to the proble (sometimes that IS the only problem).
With finicky/non eaters, I do not offer food more than 7 days apart.
 
One of the most common problems I see in these situations, is offereing food too frequently, stressing the snake out, adding to the proble (sometimes that IS the only problem).
With finicky/non eaters, I do not offer food more than 7 days apart.

I think it also gets stressful on the breeder, so a less-frequent interval helps. I also like to put the tease- and non-feeders in their own group, and feed them on their own day, or on a day with a smaller group of really easy feeders, rather than feeding them on the tail end of a big group of babies.
 
I think it also gets stressful on the breeder, so a less-frequent interval helps. I also like to put the tease- and non-feeders in their own group, and feed them on their own day, or on a day with a smaller group of really easy feeders, rather than feeding them on the tail end of a big group of babies.

I have done that too. I only had one clutch this year, and luckily, all have eaten every meal I have offered.
I start off with a delayed food offering (one week after the first shed) and the first couple meals are about 7 days apart. Once they show to be good eaters, I sometimes increase the frequency. It's sporadic though, some feedings are closer together, some are farther apart. partially due to my schedule, and partially due to the fact I think mixing it up is beneficial to them.
 
I'm very glad to hear that force-feeding tails isn't traumatic for them, that's encouraging. Picking up Ivory and Dawn today, will try both, and continue to cycle through the methods. I'm so thrown for a loop because I've never had to try this many methods to get a meal into a non-feeder :/
Knowing that eating tails won't damage them as much as syringe feeding, contrary to what I've been told this whole time, changes everything. Thanks. Will keep you guys posted.
 
Just a personal tip too for lizard scenting- try any lizard. I had a baby last year who would not eat, and I didn't want to buy an anole just for scenting, so I rubbed a pinkie on my frilled lizard and BAM that baby ate from that day forward.
 
I'd like to add a note on soap scenting. It didn't work for me for a couple years, because I thought you were supposed to put the pink in soapy water, and then rinse it completely (to remove scent, or whatever). Actually, the soap is the scent that attracts the snake. I make a mix (in a small measuring cup or bowl) of 50% VERY hot water, and 50% soap, and let the pinks soak for a minute, then add VERY hot tap water to dilute it out, but you want them to have a somewhat soapy feel to them- not be rinsed clean. I pick them up with tweezers to not transfer human scent to them- I don't know how important it is, but it doesn't hurt.
 
A good tool to carefully open a hatchling's mouth is one of those dental floss picks. There's the floss part, and the blunt pick part that bends out from the handle. If you break that off, you can VERY carefully slide that crosswise between the snakes "lips," and then put the end of the tail in, and then slide the pick out, leaving the tail. A wooden toothpick is also a great tool- just blunt off the sharp end first.

It's fairly easy to feed a mixture with a feeding tube and syringe, the problem is grinding up the pink or ferret food finely enough for it to pass through. Commercial tube feeding kits are available, though- Terri on this site could hook you up if you wanted to try it. Tubing the snake isn't the problem- that part is easy- it's getting the food through that is the hard part. Tails are pretty foolproof in comparison.

The other nice thing about tails is, after a couple times, the snake gets the idea and participates by chewing and actively swallowing, so it gets the idea that the mouse-smelling thing is for eating, and this is the motions it has to go through to swallow a prey item.
 
I used a pinky pump over the years. Easier than tube feeding but pricey to purchase. It liquefies the pinky when you inject into the snakes throat. No pre-grinding or mixing.

Wet pinky heads are easy to force feed also. I just feed the bodies to other hatchlings. I use the nose of the pinky head to gently pry the snakes mouth open then in the same motion insert it into the snakes mouth.
 
just my 2 cents here, I don't think I would ever give up on a non feeder unless there was a major unseen issue that would cause the snake to fail to thrive.
 
I agree- a great majority will go on to become normal feeders once you find the thing they want to eat, and then wean them off of it.

I don't FF anyone with a deformity like a major kink, though. It seems like often when you try to save a "special" baby, it just doesn't want to cooperate. Those are probably best off being euthanized (after going through a bunch of feeding tricks, if you like) before they start to really go downhill.
 
That's where I'm at. They're still at a healthy weight right now. Hoping they will settle down and eat something soon. Next feed I'll attempt the Ivory trick. Never really ever had to go further than boiling, but I recently had a breeder tell me that they had to force feed a snake for extended periods, and I don't necessarily believe in that. Makes me very nervous, especially since the other siblings are HUGE in comparison, and readily accept F/T.
 
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Here's a cute picture of my holdback/nonfeeder (go figure).
 
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