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Wicked Diffusion or pied-sided? (Pic Heavy)

Jenn_Tigercat

Jenn_Tigercat

Got Ghosts?
That is the question....

Not sure what to make of this girl. She definitely has some wicked diffusion going on but am wondering if she might be pied as well. Thought I would see what you guys all think. She is the Ghost bloodred I got from John of Colorado Corns. Sorry the pictures aren't the best. I need a better camera and can't do that until February.

kiranside1.jpg

kiranside.jpg


In blue - can really see the pattern difference
100_0228.jpg

100_0218.jpg

100_0226.jpg


just after she shed
kirannew.jpg

kirannew4.jpg

kirannew2.jpg
 
I would say "wicked diffusion"; you'd expect to see "white patches" of pied expression. I also don't work with them lol so hopefully someone else chimes an opinion in ;)
 
Some of the closeups DO show areas lacking any of the pigment. The hard part is that the ground color is so light, you really have to look to see the difference.

So my vote is for a low-med expression pied-sided.
 
Considering the source, I would say there is definitely some low-med pied-sided expression going on! SWEET!!
 
chris68 said:
I would say "wicked diffusion"; you'd expect to see "white patches" of pied expression. I also don't work with them lol so hopefully someone else chimes an opinion in ;)
Click to expand...

I agree with Chris. I'm not seeing any white patches associated with pied. IMHO "exceptional diffusion". Great looking snake!!
 
Tom Tuttle said:
I agree with Chris. I'm not seeing any white patches associated with pied. IMHO "exceptional diffusion". Great looking snake!!
Click to expand...

How would you tell a pied-sided avalanche? If you have a nearly-white animal, those white patches aren't going to be glaring obvious like on darker specimens.

I *do* see the white patches. There's a faint gray to the whole animal, and some areas that are purely white.
 
I definitely see some pied in kiran. The first two pics are what make me suspect pied. She's had a slow start and was a picky eater. She has finally started eating steadily and putting on weight. So she may be behind her sisters a little in weight. Will watch her with each shed to see and post here.
 
It was hard to see Pandora's white sides until she got a little larger. I too first thought she had great diffusion but when I took those last pictures this summer, it was very obvious.

That first picture of Kiran, there is a white area (no pigment) on the far left side. She will probably show more as she gets some more weight to her.

Awesome pictures!
 
Shiari said:
How would you tell a pied-sided avalanche? If you have a nearly-white animal, those white patches aren't going to be glaring obvious like on darker specimens
Click to expand...

You would still "expect" to see obvious, white patches. As I understand it, the pied patches are just that, white patches similar to the white found in a pure white belly, or a leucistic rat...definitely white "splotches" set down over any diffusion...An avalanche morph corn that would be pied I'd "expect" it would be obvious...I'm saying "expect" because that's just what I'd expect, given the little bit I've read about them ;)

I'm pretty sure I see what everyone else is seeing, and it's jmho from someone who has no experience with pieds. Beautiful snake Jen :)
 
chris68 said:
You would still "expect" to see obvious, white patches. As I understand it, the pied patches are just that, white patches similar to the white found in a pure white belly, or a leucistic rat...definitely white "splotches" set down over any diffusion...An avalanche morph corn that would be pied I'd "expect" it would be obvious...I'm saying "expect" because that's just what I'd expect, given the little bit I've read about them ;)

I'm pretty sure I see what everyone else is seeing, and it's jmho from someone who has no experience with pieds. Beautiful snake Jen :)
Click to expand...

Avalanches are white snakes. How would the white patch be obvious on a white snake?

If you have a super pale animal, seeing white on them is going to be very very hard. A pied-sided avalanche or whiteout would be impossible to label, because the snake is white.
 
Shiari said:
Avalanches are white snakes. How would the white patch be obvious on a white snake?

If you have a super pale animal, seeing white on them is going to be very very hard. A pied-sided avalanche or whiteout would be impossible to label, because the snake is white.
Click to expand...

Granted a mature avalanche is a white snake and without knowing the genetic make up of the parents it would be extremely difficult to determine without breeding trials. Now does this make every avalanche a pied?;)

A ghost bloodred is not a white snake, the sides are not a "pure" white. I've produced enough ghost bloodreds & pieds over the years to know the difference. IMHO the pied markings will be obvious and will be "pure white" blotches.
 
But that's what I see, Tom. I see some areas, surrounded by gray speckling, that completely lack the gray pigment and are just "pure white".
 
Shiari said:
But that's what I see, Tom. I see some areas, surrounded by gray speckling, that completely lack the gray pigment and are just "pure white".
Click to expand...

Sorry but I'm not seeing any in the OP's post shed photo's. It will interesting to see some progression photo's.

The pied blotches are very obvious in Angela's snake that are provided by the link.
 
Shiari said:
Angela's snake is also a darker snake. :p
Click to expand...


So far I have never seen a granite or ghost bloodred with sides light enough to keep one from being able to discern pure white scales from the ground color or lighter colored scales on the sides.:grin01:
Until that happens I would use caution in calling anything a whitesided. That name should be reserved for an animal truly deserving.
 
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