Harassment Issue.

[dionythicus]

6 months is too young since dogs began finishing their growth/maturity around 12-24 months.

I think asserting that "it should have been done 2.5 years ago" is wrong.

That depends on the breed. Larger breeds take longer to reach physical maturity. IMO, 6 months is not too young to spay or nueter a dog. Ask any vet. Its often recommended to spay them before they go into their first heat cycle. Now 6 weeks is too young, and one of our boys was nuetered that young by the shelter where we got him.

 

[raynefyre]

I know Beast should have been spayed as soon as possible, I didn't take offense to that comment at all.

And I just wanted to say thank you for everyone helping us out and being there for us. This truly is like a family here, everyone tries to take care of one another. Our minds are a little more at rest now, we were so scared about her finding a way to take our babies. On the minus side, she does know our address. But on the plus side, she lives about 5-6 hours away and I highly doubt she would ever be able to make it all the way over here. If for some reason she ever did, I have family and friends that are police, lawyers, etc that can deal with her. I just wish she would leave us alone.

 

[desertanimal]

I just wish she would leave us alone.

You're in control of that. Or, you (plural) are if you choose to be.

 

[Susan]

6 months is too young since dogs began finishing their growth/maturity around 12-24 months.

I think asserting that "it should have been done 2.5 years ago" is wrong.

As the veterinary professional in question, there are several reasons to spay a female dog of any breed before their first heat cycle. First, you reduce the risk of the dog developing mammary tumors to just about 0%. Second, the surgery is easier on them as the ovaries and uterus are still small and they heal much faster than an older dog. Third, you eliminate all the problems associated with a female in heat...male dogs coming around, the mess itself, the behavioral changes that many females experience while in heat, unwanted pregnancy, risk of false pregnancy and risk of pyometra. The only potential drawback to spaying a female young is that she MAY develop urinary incontinence later in life, but that is easily remedied with simple medications. The only reason to NOT spay a female is to breed her. And when I say young, I am talking about 4-8 months of age, depending upon the breed. While spaying a female can be done as young as 8 weeks, the anesthesia is more risky at that age. And as back up, here is a link to a brochure created by the American Veterinary Medical Association about spaying and neutering: Spaying & Neutering

 

[Emily1188]

As the veterinary professional in question, there are several reasons to spay a female dog of any breed before their first heat cycle. First, you reduce the risk of the dog developing mammary tumors to just about 0%. Second, the surgery is easier on them as the ovaries and uterus are still small and they heal much faster than an older dog. Third, you eliminate all the problems associated with a female in heat...male dogs coming around, the mess itself, the behavioral changes that many females experience while in heat, unwanted pregnancy, risk of false pregnancy and risk of pyometra. The only potential drawback to spaying a female young is that she MAY develop urinary incontinence later in life, but that is easily remedied with simple medications. The only reason to NOT spay a female is to breed her. And when I say young, I am talking about 4-8 months of age, depending upon the breed. While spaying a female can be done as young as 8 weeks, the anesthesia is more risky at that age. And as back up, here is a link to a brochure created by the American Veterinary Medical Association about spaying and neutering: Spaying & Neutering

Oh well, a brochure from AVMA? I'm sold! LOL *not sold*

Susan, I've heard it all a million times over. I think cutting out body parts to fix behavioral issues or to avoid messy heat cycles is lazy and I find it repugnant. I think it's totally ridiculous to guilt someone about elective surgery when she's clearly responsible enough to care for the dog intact.

I personally choose the risks of being entire over disturbing normal physical and mental growth and development patterns. Whatever ANYONE chooses, if they're responsible, it's their choice. I find it in poor taste that people insist on the lectures/guilt trips to RESPONSIBLE owners who choose to keep their animals intact.

 

[Emily1188]

Ask any vet. Its often recommended to spay them before they go into their first heat cycle.

Yeah, that would be why I DON'T ask. LOL. My dog was spayed before her first heat. Poor animal has no normal sex characteristics. Underdeveloped mammary glands (barely visible nipples) and vulva; very bizarre and disturbing, IMO. I would never want to inflict disrupted growth like that on anything, animal or person.

Like I said, I take the risks that come with being entire over that.

 

[dionythicus]

That's entirely your choice. If you choose not to ask veterinary professionals for all the positive reasons to alter your pet, then you're doing your pet a diservice. Just my opinion. Everyone has their reasons for spaying/nuetering or not doing it.

 

[Shiari]

Your female dog has no *need* for those secondary sexual characteristics, and they typically only develop large mammaries and nipples after having a litter. Nor does she have any need for a giant, protruding vulva.

The dangers of potentially fatal pyometras, and the high risk of mammary cancer make spaying before the 2nd heat ideal.

Do you also think male cats should not be neutered until they're 2 so that they can have full jowls and subsequently ignore the spraying and fighting?

 

[Susan]

You have the right to your opinion. I, however, have seen more than enough maggot-infested ulcerated mammary tumors, 10 pound pus-filled uteri and unwanted puppies left to die in a plastic bag by the side of the road to make me quite adamant at trying to convince as many pet owners as possible to spay and neuter their pets as soon as medically advisable. I've heard it innumerable times from the owners of pets that have suffered with the above mentioned conditions, and who have died as a result of those conditions, how they had wished that someone had beat it into their heads to have their pet spayed or neutered.

Oh, and for those that think only intact females can have medical issues and that their male dogs will be just fine, last week, we diagnosed a 7 yr old Boxer mix with a huge tumor in it's abdomen. We did an abdominal exploratory because X-rays could not tell us where the tumor was coming from. We did find out...it was a retained testicle that had not moved into the scrotum. It turned cancerous, a common occurrence in cryptorchids, but was inoperable by this point as the tumor was well attached to the dorsal wall of the abdominal cavity as well as growing through the pelvic opening. The dog has only a few weeks left to live. And just yesterday, an 8 yr old Labrador was seen because he had blood in his urine. Well, the blood is coming from his prostate, which is about 4 times the normal size, and if the dog survives being neutered to remove the source of the testosterone, the major contributing factor to enlarged prostates, and the biopsy reveals the prostate to also be cancerous, a common finding, the dog will have to undergo chemotherapy if their owner can afford it, or again, face a very limited future life expectancy.

 

[bekers71]

You have the right to your opinion. I, however, have seen more than enough maggot-infested ulcerated mammary tumors, 10 pound pus-filled uteri and unwanted puppies left to die in a plastic bag by the side of the road to make me quite adamant at trying to convince as many pet owners as possible to spay and neuter their pets as soon as medically advisable. I've heard it innumerable times from the owners of pets that have suffered with the above mentioned conditions, and who have died as a result of those conditions, how they had wished that someone had beat it into their heads to have their pet spayed or neutered.

Oh, and for those that think only intact females can have medical issues and that their male dogs will be just fine, last week, we diagnosed a 7 yr old Boxer mix with a huge tumor in it's abdomen. We did an abdominal exploratory because X-rays could not tell us where the tumor was coming from. We did find out...it was a retained testicle that had not moved into the scrotum. It turned cancerous, a common occurrence in cryptorchids, but was inoperable by this point as the tumor was well attached to the dorsal wall of the abdominal cavity as well as growing through the pelvic opening. The dog has only a few weeks left to live. And just yesterday, an 8 yr old Labrador was seen because he had blood in his urine. Well, the blood is coming from his prostate, which is about 4 times the normal size, and if the dog survives being neutered to remove the source of the testosterone, the major contributing factor to enlarged prostates, and the biopsy reveals the prostate to also be cancerous, a common finding, the dog will have to undergo chemotherapy if their owner can afford it, or again, face a very limited future life expectancy.

That is all so sad. It has to be hard on owners to find out such awful news about their beloved pet.

Susan, does your office find a higher rate of problems, such as you listed, in animals that are outdoors 100%-50% of the time versus animals that are kept indoors 100% of the time, except to go potty of course?

 

[Emily1188]

Ooooh boy. LOL. I guess forgot just how in love with spay and neuter the US is. Teehee. Would you be appalled to learn that in the Netherlands, dogs cannot be altered unless it’s medically necessary? It’s deemed cruelty if done for no obvious reason.

They don’t need those hormones, huh? How do you know?! Those hormones control not only sex drives but a variety of other physical and mental functions.

As for rotting tumors, that’s neglect. End of discussions. If anyone would seriously assert that an otherwise responsible owner would allow testicular cancer to go untreated, they need to re-examine “responsible”.

For anyone would like to learn the legitimate pros and cons:
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

To recap, my dogs – my choice. Same for everyone else. For the record, I’m looking at owning working quality dogs that may pan out to be breeding quality, so yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaah… but, even for any dog I get as “just a pet” – nope, sorry, no castration or hysterectomies anytime before the age of 2, and likely never unless there’s some compelling reason. Certainly not so I don’t have to clean up after a heat. *eyeroll*

I seriously can’t believe how up in arms people get about MY PERSONAL CHOICES with MY ANIMALS. I was like that once… but I was 15, lol.

 

[Lucille]

up in arms

This is a family type board and we can exchange opinion and as someone new to the board recently pointed out, we can sometimes all benefit by talking about our differences.

Here, more and more public shelters are statutorily required to spay/neuter prior to the animal being adopted. This is not necessarily a moral choice, or a choice for the dog, it is because local governments are making choices to try to limit future populations, they don't have the funds any longer to have dogcatchers picking up the exploding population of hungry homeless strays from uncontrolled breeding, and as well, the mounting problems of bites and maulings from stray animals.

There are good points on both sides of the spay/neuter debate, but I think, for the dogs benefit, that the weight tips toward getting them spayed and neutered. If you feel different that is OK, you are entitled to manage your critters but everyone is entitled to voice their opinions.

In my opinion, spaying and neutering is a good thing for the owner, for the community, and for the dog.

 

[Emily1188]

This is a family type board and we can exchange opinion and as someone new to the board recently pointed out, we can sometimes all benefit by talking about our differences.

Here, more and more public shelters are statutorily required to spay/neuter prior to the animal being adopted. This is not necessarily a moral choice, or a choice for the dog, it is because local governments are making choices to try to limit future populations, they don't have the funds any longer to have dogcatchers picking up the exploding population of hungry homeless strays from uncontrolled breeding, and as well, the mounting problems of bites and maulings from stray animals.

There are good points on both sides of the spay/neuter debate, but I think, for the dogs benefit, that the weight tips toward getting them spayed and neutered. If you feel different that is OK, you are entitled to manage your critters but everyone is entitled to voice their opinions.

In my opinion, spaying and neutering is a good thing for the owner, for the community, and for the dog.

I take no issue with shelters altering their animals prior to leaving.

As for as altering being good for the dog, I would strong suggest reading the link I provided, especially in the case of males.

Altering might be better for me if I'm too lazy to supervise my dogs, but that's a not a good reason for surgery IMO.

As for the community, I simply do not allow my animals to burden them.

Everyone is entitled to share how they feel, but that does not make it any less humorous to me that people have an extreme emotional attachment to spaying/neutering. I was there, once upon a time, like I said. Why people insist on lecturing responsible owners on this issue is beyond me.

 

[Lucille]

Everyone is entitled to share how they feel, but that does not make it any less humorous to me that people have an extreme emotional attachment to spaying/neutering. I was there, once upon a time, like I said. Why people insist on lecturing responsible owners on this issue is beyond me.

My father is in his 90s. He still tells me the benefits of education, and that I should plan my life, and that I should be on the Supreme Court and would be if I put my mind to it.

I've long ago made my choices, and the Supreme Court is not one of them, but he says all this stuff because he loves me. There are times what he wants and what is best for me are not the same thing, but I won't hear his voice much longer and I welcome his concerns.

Sometimes, if you listen with your heart, you can see that people say things to convey their concerns, for you, for the critters.

My son rolls his eyes now when I tell him prior to big holidays where people drink, that he should be careful not to get into a car with someone who has had too much to drink. But he knows I'm saying it because I love him.

 

[Emily1188]

My father is in his 90s. He still tells me the benefits of education, and that I should plan my life, and that I should be on the Supreme Court and would be if I put my mind to it.

I've long ago made my choices, and the Supreme Court is not one of them, but he says all this stuff because he loves me. There are times what he wants and what is best for me are not the same thing, but I won't hear his voice much longer and I welcome his concerns.

Sometimes, if you listen with your heart, you can see that people say things to convey their concerns, for you, for the critters.

My son rolls his eyes now when I tell him prior to big holidays where people drink, that he should be careful not to get into a car with someone who has had too much to drink. But he knows I'm saying it because I love him.

Ok, well... if I'm deciphering this correctly, then I guess I should just say, while I appreciate the concern, but nothing's going to change. Perhaps people should not waste their time worrying about my perfectly happy, healthy animals. And also... my dog will never be on the Supreme Court. Wait... what? LOL

And likewise, I am extremely concerned about those animals that are altered prior to maturity.

 

[Lucille]

Ok, well... if I'm deciphering this correctly, then I guess I should just say, while I appreciate the concern, but nothing's going to change. Perhaps people should not waste their time worrying about my perfectly happy, healthy animals. And also... my dog will never be on the Supreme Court. Wait... what? LOL

And likewise, I am extremely concerned about those animals that are altered prior to maturity.

It isn't a waste of time to express concern either for you or for others..
It really bothers me when I hear those news stories about homeless or street people killed and how sometimes the passersby never say a word. It is OK imho for others to express their concern to you and for you to reply, and it is OK to be passionate about our opinions.
YOUR opinion is valuable, and others are too, the interplay of opinion read by people who do not have a stance on an issue may help persuade them one way or another.

Someday I might have a 'Not on the Supreme Court' party. You and the dog are invited :roflmao:

 

[Tinkerbeller87]

I don't usually get involved in this type of thing but felt like I should give some info. I agree, if you don't want to fix your cat/dog then that is a personal option. Also if you are responsible enough for an unwanted pregnancy to happen, even better.

I actually have a website that I just found to sort of explain what I wanted to say but don't have enough room to say. This is why I personally recommend spaying a female between 5-7 months. There are graphic pictures on this site, please don't look at these if you have a weak stomach. Medical issue prevention being the most important 4-6. http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/dog-spaying.html#pro-spay

I only recommend this because working in a vet hospital I have personally and up front seen these problems in un-spayed females. Some animals have died due to these issues. Makes owners wish they would have spayed, straight out of their mouths.

Really hope some of these things will help with a few peoples opinions about spaying early. I believe that knowledge is power! I also believe backing up your opinion is also important. I hope I have done this. Thank you all for your time.

Back to the issue at hand I agree with the fact of spaying the female and blocking her # would probably, or hopefully, completely take care of your problem. Not to say she wouldn't just find something else to harass you about. Sound like my ex-sister-in-law, she always finds something petty to harass my brother about.

 

[RosieReal]

lol...call the local police (from a payphone, and dont leave a name) to tell them you have it on good authority that she's running a meth lab. That should keep her busy for a while!
(ps...dont really do this. just think about it. I bet it makes you smile!)

Seriously though, how's it going? any further devlopments? It sucks when the ex is still a factor to deal with.

 

[Tinkerbeller87]

You have the right to your opinion. I, however, have seen more than enough maggot-infested ulcerated mammary tumors, 10 pound pus-filled uteri and unwanted puppies left to die in a plastic bag by the side of the road to make me quite adamant at trying to convince as many pet owners as possible to spay and neuter their pets as soon as medically advisable. I've heard it innumerable times from the owners of pets that have suffered with the above mentioned conditions, and who have died as a result of those conditions, how they had wished that someone had beat it into their heads to have their pet spayed or neutered.

Oh, and for those that think only intact females can have medical issues and that their male dogs will be just fine, last week, we diagnosed a 7 yr old Boxer mix with a huge tumor in it's abdomen. We did an abdominal exploratory because X-rays could not tell us where the tumor was coming from. We did find out...it was a retained testicle that had not moved into the scrotum. It turned cancerous, a common occurrence in cryptorchids, but was inoperable by this point as the tumor was well attached to the dorsal wall of the abdominal cavity as well as growing through the pelvic opening. The dog has only a few weeks left to live. And just yesterday, an 8 yr old Labrador was seen because he had blood in his urine. Well, the blood is coming from his prostate, which is about 4 times the normal size, and if the dog survives being neutered to remove the source of the testosterone, the major contributing factor to enlarged prostates, and the biopsy reveals the prostate to also be cancerous, a common finding, the dog will have to undergo chemotherapy if their owner can afford it, or again, face a very limited future life expectancy.

It's great to have you on here. Definitely some great info! I hope that everyone takes heed to what Susan is saying. I think you are a wonderful person to back up all of your info on real-life experiences. And medical at that, not just opinion. Life expectancy for your best friend is important IMO. Anything I can do for my animal babies (since I'm not having human babies) to increase life expectancy I'm all for.

 

[Tinkerbeller87]

As for rotting tumors, that’s neglect. End of discussions. If anyone would seriously assert that an otherwise responsible owner would allow testicular cancer to go untreated, they need to re-examine “responsible”.

I don't think you quite understood Susan on this. The tumor was inside the animals abdomen and only found after exploratory surgery to be a testicle. When you take your animal to the vet because it isn't doing right only an experienced vet can feel a tumor that you cannot see. Even working for a vet I cannot feel, and am not trained to feel, a deformity inside the body of an animal. I also don't recall her calling it "rotting testicular cancer". Also how is an owner responsible for a tumor inside of their animals body that they are not trained to feel, like I mentioned earlier?