8 ft rattle snake

[wstphal]

I think many hunters and fishermen would disagree that isn't a trophy. While I don't like the idea of killing animals for pleasure, we as herp people are much more sensitive about snakes being killed. Would we be as upset if someone posted their trophy buck or marlin, I wonder?

Probably not, but I am a big supporter of hunting and firmly against trophy-only hunting. Nothing wrong with hunting or fishing, but for goodness sake, eat what you kill, or give it to someone who will eat it. Now if you want a mount of the head & share the venison with all and sundry, it's not wrong, because the animal didn't go to waste.

 

[tyflier]

Probably not, but I am a big supporter of hunting and firmly against trophy-only hunting. Nothing wrong with hunting or fishing, but for goodness sake, eat what you kill, or give it to someone who will eat it. Now if you want a mount of the head & share the venison with all and sundry, it's not wrong, because the animal didn't go to waste.

Actually, it's illegal in most states to hunt strictly for trophy and waste the animal. If you shoot it, you are expected to track it, kill it(if necessary), dress it, butcher it, and use it, either for yourself or give it away. It is also almost universal state law, to kill as quickly and humanely as possible, and to avoid allowing an animal to suffer.

But to kill, only to remove the trophy and waste the meat, is illegal in most states. Getting "caught" typically results in a HUGE fine, and at least a temporary loss of hunting priveleges within the state.

I'm not a hunter, but I firmly support responsible hunting and responsible hunters. I am a fly fisherman, and the only reason I don't hunt is because it's usually cold and I'm usually tired.

 

[Cflaguy]

I agree with Mike and Chris......

Snakes aren't that large. All about holding the snake out in front of you and the angle it portrays. Done it myself a few times.
I remember Kathy posting some of Bill's herping pics last year. He and a few other guys came upon a four ft. Timber Rattler. One gent lifted him up on the hook and held it front of him. Made the snake look 8ft or better.

 

[Em Wright]

I think many hunters and fishermen would disagree that isn't a trophy. While I don't like the idea of killing animals for pleasure, we as herp people are much more sensitive about snakes being killed. Would we be as upset if someone posted their trophy buck or marlin, I wonder?

I'm sensitive to any animal being killed for sport. Maybe I've seen Bambi too many times... I see hunters as big mean, meanie heads, especially trophy hunters.

Probably not, but I am a big supporter of hunting and firmly against trophy-only hunting. Nothing wrong with hunting or fishing, but for goodness sake, eat what you kill, or give it to someone who will eat it. Now if you want a mount of the head & share the venison with all and sundry, it's not wrong, because the animal didn't go to waste.

I don't see the point in hunting at all. In today's society most people don't NEED to hunt to survive. It's for pleasure or preference. I'm sure there are some people who don't rely on what the stores provide and they hunt what they need to eat. Well that's all fine and dandy, but then you have some people I've met who go hunting every year, kill their maximum and go around bragging about how awesome they are because they can shoot a deer. In my opinion, people like that need to be stripped naked, taken out into the woods, and tracked with dogs, lured with food, etc just like the poor animals they've hunted for pleasure.

What really gets me hot are the people who grow deer grass (I think that's what it's called) to get the deer to come to them. Seems cheap and lazy to me...

And I'm ranting... sorry. For the record, I'm not proposing to change people or do anything different. I'm just stating MY personal views on hunting and fishing, I don't expect anyone to agree or anything like that.

 

[Outcast]

I'm sensitive to any animal being killed for sport. Maybe I've seen Bambi too many times... I see hunters as big mean, meanie heads, especially trophy hunters.



I don't see the point in hunting at all. In today's society most people don't NEED to hunt to survive. It's for pleasure or preference. I'm sure there are some people who don't rely on what the stores provide and they hunt what they need to eat. Well that's all fine and dandy, but then you have some people I've met who go hunting every year, kill their maximum and go around bragging about how awesome they are because they can shoot a deer. In my opinion, people like that need to be stripped naked, taken out into the woods, and tracked with dogs, lured with food, etc just like the poor animals they've hunted for pleasure.

What really gets me hot are the people who grow deer grass (I think that's what it's called) to get the deer to come to them. Seems cheap and lazy to me...

And I'm ranting... sorry. For the record, I'm not proposing to change people or do anything different. I'm just stating MY personal views on hunting and fishing, I don't expect anyone to agree or anything like that.

You do realize that without hunters that there would be a population explosion and that would cause major damage to crops that feed livestock and you. I hunt every chance I get, because I prefer deer/elk over beef. My uncles all hunt to feed their families year round without having to go spend so much money on beef and pork, because if they can shoot enough to stock their freezers, the money they save on meat can be used for bills. For many hunters, it is about keeping the population to a manageable level and because they like to eat deer. Some hunters wait for that big buck so they can mount their trophy on the wall, I don't know what they do with the meat, I just know that my family salvages what meat they can in order to make jerky, backstrap, and fried deer steak(which is very good btw)

 

[Em Wright]

Easy now... I didn't say anything bad about people who hunt out of necessity. I was speaking out against those who do it for an ego rush or for pleasure or who just decided they want deer meat instead of buying beef.

And I've heard the population control line, too. Before man came around though, nature had its own population control. This might sound harsh, but humans are overgrown. Maybe hunters need to have a license to hunt humans for population control? (that's a snarky joke, don't take it seriously)

There's people who like to hunt and think they're special for it and those kinds of people sicken me. Those who do it for some variety, meh whatever. Still don't need to hunt, it's for preference, not necessity. And I've honesty never met anyone so hard up they couldn't afford to buy groceries... besides, how much money does your family spend on bullets? Last I heard bullets were expensive, too. :shrugs:

 

[mike17l]

One fifty cent bullet can feed a family for a couple of weeks or more.

What i find ironic here, is that you don't agree with hunting because it's not "necessary". Why do you keep snakes as pets?

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Outcast, that just plain out isn't true. Predators keep prey animals numbers down. If people stopped hunting prey animals, no harm would be done.

I am all for the hunting of animals that are not endangered, in reasonable numbers, and all the parts are used. But using the excuse that it is the only thing keeping prey animals numbers from getting too high is just completely false.

 

[Kuzco]

seriously? she was just giving her opinion, and you have to turn it into a personal attack? I've seen you do this several times in different threads.

If you disagree with someone, find a way to argue the topic, not the person.

 

[martin-bernstein]

Hunting is absolutely essential to the health of almost all of our different ecosystems in the US. Because we have ruthlessly eradicated and nearly rendered extinct several of our country's apex predators such as wolves, cougars and bears, we have forced ourselves into a role of apex predator. If not for the millions of hunters in the US, deer, elk, hogs and other herbivors would overpopulate, they would ruin crops, cause even more traffic accidents, and most likely develop and spread diseases within their own populations.

On top of that, HUNTERS put in millions of dollar$ each year to preserve millions of acres of wildlife sanctuaries and hunting grounds. Why do they do it? Because they actually CARE about their hobby. A lot of people like to play armchair conservationists and whine about habitat loss, climate change and bad hunters, meanwhile they don't consider that a fifth of the Co2 released in America comes from cow flatulence as a result of corn-feeding. Much of our habitat loss is due to farm and ranch expansions. Many HUNTERS actually work hard and pay alot to reverse those expansions, and they eat meat from animals that aren't gassy because they are forced to cheap corn that ruins their digestive system.

And how on earth could anyone argue that a cow that has been injected with hormones, that has lived its entire life in a confined space and been fed corn tastes better than say a deer, who has lived its entire life feeding off of flowers, fruits and grasses, wandered around as it pleased and built strong, lean muscles? I'll take venison over a big mac any day!

Simply put- hunting is responsible conservation!

Of course, that does not mean that there aren't some bad apples. As we've seen in this thread, some people are trigger happy killers who like to kill rattlesnakes, snap a photo and leave the carcass to rot. Not all hunters are responsible. But you'll find a lot of irresponsible reptile keepers, but should that keep YOU from keeping reptiles????

 

[Em Wright]

What i find ironic here, is that you don't agree with hunting because it's not "necessary". Why do you keep snakes as pets?

How is that ironic? I didn't say I disagreed with animals being used as food. I said I disagree with pleasure hunting and hunting in general. I do not hunt. I disagree with it. I'm not asking you or anyone else to agree with me or change how you do things.

Yes, I eat meat... cows are yummy. My snakes eat mice. But I don't go around shooting cows for a good time, nor do I kill mice for my enjoyment. I know there are some people who hunt for the same reason and that is fine with me.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

So people are hunting to fix the mistakes they made by hunting? Wouldn't it be a better idea to reintroduce predators to the areas they are missing? Just saying.

 

[Kuzco]

We have cougars where I live, I think I'm more comfortable with hunters doing the job. At least most hunters can tell the difference between a deer and myself on a jog.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Hunters make mistakes too. *shrugs*

 

[Kuzco]

Hence the *most* part

 

[mike17l]

So people are hunting to fix the mistakes they made by hunting? Wouldn't it be a better idea to reintroduce predators to the areas they are missing? Just saying.

Hunters may have removed most of them, but the bill was paid for by farmers and ranchers "protecting" their beef and sheep. Theg are the ones who now oppose the reintroduction of predators.

 

[martin-bernstein]

So people are hunting to fix the mistakes they made by hunting? Wouldn't it be a better idea to reintroduce predators to the areas they are missing? Just saying.

No, people are hunting because they love to hunt. It would be a very good idea to reintroduce predator in some areas, and in many places reintroduction has been a success. But you can't just reintroduce wolves or cougars just to keep a deer or elk population down. That won't fly with live stock owners, it won't fly home owners, and to be honest, it sometimes doesn't fly with hunters.

Reintro of apex predators is a science in itself- besides the mentioned problems, one must consider whether they will be in danger of traffic accidents, whether the prey population is large enough to sustain the predators, and what effect the reintro will have on the ecosystem at large. Tree and plant species will be affected and as a result multiple other animal species will be indirectly affected. Wolves are highly efficient predators and can and do over hunt, just like humans. This is a big debate of course and its been going on for decades. The bottom line is that human hunters are undoubtedly vital to the health of our ecosystems.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Obviously, I didn't mean they should be introduced into cities or other heavily populated areas.

The only reason hunters are "vital" is because THEY killed off the apex predators. Which is unacceptable. I think through careful reintroduction hunting could become something that ISN'T necessary in most areas.

 

[Chip]

There's a guy on Hoax Slayer who is becoming the Snopes of false rattlesnake photos. I get them in my emails all the time... usually said to be Florida, and the snake is an atrox. The reported weights are the most exaggerated part, usually 50+ pounds. Anyway, here's a link to the guy's site: http://www.hoax-slayer.com/nine-foot-rattle-snake.shtml

 

[martin-bernstein]

The only reason hunters are "vital" is because THEY killed off the apex predators. Which is unacceptable. I think through careful reintroduction hunting could become something that ISN'T necessary in most areas.

I agree with you %100- it was terrible that all these majestic animals got killed off out of fear. But another reason why our large predators decreased so drastically in numbers is simply that more and more settlers, more and more immigrants entered the country and tamed wild country, pushing other animals out.

It is important to remember that the hunters of the old days, the ones who killed off other predators, were very different from today's hunters. They simply did not have the same understanding of conservation that most of today's hunters do. Today, hunters often join associations such as Ducks Unlimited, and pour in vast amounts of money in order to ensure that their prey have plenty if good habitat to live on. This is because the hunters want many ducks an they want healthy ducks. The side effect, which is a fantastic side effect, is that many duck species which were previously threatened due to habitat loss, are now thriving. Most of these ducks will never get shot and they will be allowed to reproduce and secure the success of their species. This is almost entirely thanks to hunters.

So, one cannot equate the hunters of old with the hunters of today. They are two very different animals.