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Whats the physical difference

MiamiCracker

MiamiCracker

New member
Does anybody have a pic with a "rat" snake and a "corn" snake and are willing to explain the difference?
I know they are different genus but how does one look at them and tell the difference?
everything I can find basically says corn snakes are rat snakes.
so what gives?
 
I came up with the following analogy for the same question recently:

Rat Snakes are the group, Corn Snakes are one of the individual species within the group. Like:

All cod are fish, but not all fish are cod.

So:

All Corn Snakes are Rat Snakes, but not all Rat Snakes are Corn Snakes.

There are many types of Rat Snake, so it's a matter of Googling to see pics of the range on offer. Pics of Corn Snakes will pop up as part of that group.

Hope that helps!
 
Well yeah, kinda, sorta........
to use your analogy, yes all cod are fish but they cant breed with salmon.
so there in lies the problem.
I have a couple snakes 1 of which some say is a corn, yet others say rat...
i'm trying to figure out what it is so if I decide to breed it I will be looking for the "right" mate....ie Okeetee corn or Black rat......
thanks for the response though
 
Yes rat snakes and corn snakes can breed, hybrids, Creamsicle, Rootbeer... Ther are also hybrd king/corn, milk/corn combos; Jungle Corns, Christmas Corns...
 
I have a couple snakes 1 of which some say is a corn, yet others say rat...
i'm trying to figure out what it is so if I decide to breed it I will be looking for the "right" mate....ie Okeetee corn or Black rat......
Click to expand...
If it's the Amel-looking one that you posted in your other thread, then it could be a pure Corn or a hybrid Corn+Rat snake, which is known as a Creamsicle. Unfortunately there's no easy way to tell the difference unless you know its parentage. Pure Corns can look very like Creamsicles and vice versa.

I'm afraid there's no way for you to be 100% certain what you have there unless you can track back to the person who hatched it. As far as breeding goes, you could breed it successfully with a Corn or a range of other Rat Snakes - you just wouldn't know what to sell the offspring as.
 
so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
I mean if the only real difference is name then...........................
 
MiamiCracker said:
so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
I mean if the only real difference is name then...........................
Click to expand...

Why would you want to do this?

Yes, there can be visable differences between the two, but sometimes it's hard to tell, without knowing the lineage.
 
so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
Click to expand...
It depends. If you had a pure Rat Snake like, for example, a Black Rat Snake, it would be easily visually distinguishable from a pure Corn. The issue here is with hybrids which involve Corn genetics. The physical appearance of some of these is very similar to pure Corns.

The issue of hybrid blood getting into "pure" Corn lines is a hot topic amongst some Corn owners/breeders, because there's no way (short of a genetics test which has not yet been developed) to 100% tell what's a hybrid that includes Corn from a pure Corn.

I mean if the only real difference is name then
Click to expand...
The name isn't the issue. The real difference is in the snake's genetics and not it's visual appearance. Corn vs hybrid. Same/similar appearance, different genetics, different name.
 
MiamiCracker said:
so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
I mean if the only real difference is name then...........................
Click to expand...

Seriously?

Google some rat snakes. Yellow Rats, Black rats, Texas Rats and any other kind of rat snake that strikes your fancy. Google corn snakes. Google red rat snakes just for kicks.

From there Im going to assume you have a hybrid with offspring you will soon be passing off as corns. Awesome.
 
If you're talking about the amel looking thing in your other thread, I would very highly doubt that it's pure corn. The head shape and look of the saddles is what's really deterring me from saying "YES, it's a corn".
 
I haven't enough experience to tell you myself, but when I asked experienced breeders IRL, they told me that its "Hard to explain. When you see a hybrid, sometimes some part of you knows it just doesn't look right to be a cornsnake"

But hey, they are rather quiet people, so they may just not know how to describe it.
 
MiamiCracker said:
so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
I mean if the only real difference is name then...........................
Click to expand...

Well you can also get a cheap corn snake and sell it as a "corn snake". If however you think you can get one past people, maybe one or two but then someone will know and you will be on BOI as not an honest seller.

RobbiesCornField said:
If you're talking about the amel looking thing in your other thread, I would very highly doubt that it's pure corn. The head shape and look of the saddles is what's really deterring me from saying "YES, it's a corn".
Click to expand...

Robbie why you so 'quiet'? No expert but even that snake wouldn't get by me as a pure corn.
 
Perhaps using a more familiar example of a hybrid will help. Goggle images for "wolf", "Malamute", "Husky", and "German Shepherd". Then Google images for the combination of these when hybridized with wolves. You'll see many of the same images found under all of those searches, but you will see some that you will definitely say "wolf", definitely say "Husky, Shepherd, etc" and some that you will definitely call "hybrids". And then there will be others that you really can't be sure of one way or the other. The same thing happens when you hybridize corn snakes with other colubrids as a whole.
 
susang said:
Robbie why you so 'quiet'? No expert but even that snake wouldn't get by me as a pure corn.
Click to expand...

"Quiet"? You've obviously never met me in person. :grin01: Also, I hardly classify myself as an "expert" in anything.

I'm just saying that there's the shape of the head that has more characteristics of rat than corn to me. The saddles, especially in coloration and fading, as well as the side pattern and fading again suggest to ME that it's not pure corn.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
"Quiet"? You've obviously never met me in person. :grin01: Also, I hardly classify myself as an "expert" in anything.

I'm just saying that there's the shape of the head that has more characteristics of rat than corn to me. The saddles, especially in coloration and fading, as well as the side pattern and fading again suggest to ME that it's not pure corn.
Click to expand...

What would you say is usually the thing to look for in identifying hybrids vs corns? I've noticed alot of people mention headshape first and foremost
 
Lyion said:
What would you say is usually the thing to look for in identifying hybrids vs corns? I've noticed alot of people mention headshape first and foremost
Click to expand...

The head shape can definitely be a key factor. Corns tend to have more slender faces, while black rats and other rats can be a bit broader, and larger overall. Some people will go as far as to count the number of scales on the head, or ventral sides for comparison. Sometimes, if you can see the anal scale, corns have a split where some rat snakes have one solid scale.

At least that's what I look for. Sometimes, I'll look at one and get a feeling in my gut that something just isn't right.
 
@-nwheather....did I say I was?.....NO....stop assuming and if you are not going to answer the question than dont reply

@-Ryan_J....Just like the other ???????(not going to say what I want to say)........stop assuming.....I asked a question and I have researched it and they are the same .... just like you and nwheather........

why do people feel like putting in their 2 cents when their 2 cents have nothing to do with the topic?
 
MiamiCracker said:
@-nwheather....did I say I was?.....NO....stop assuming and if you are not going to answer the question than dont reply

@-Ryan_J....Just like the other ???????(not going to say what I want to say)........stop assuming.....I asked a question and I have researched it and they are the same .... just like you and nwheather........

why do people feel like putting in their 2 cents when their 2 cents have nothing to do with the topic?
Click to expand...

1) This is an open forum. Anyone and everyone can, and WILL reply.

2) You're never going to get any answers to anything if you keep acting like this.

3) People are putting their 2 cents in because an OPINION was asked OPENLY of the forum.

4) What "research" is it that you've done that shows rats and corns are the same? Would you mind posting it for the rest of us?

5)What you're failing to grasp is that there can be different SPECIES within a shared GENUS, and even different SUB-SPECIES. Think of it this way: the genus is rat snake, the species is corn snake. Rat snake is more encompassing, and can cover a wide variety of animals with a set description (more so a blanket or umbrella effect). Corn snake, however, is a specific subset within that blanket/umbrella, hence the ability to interbreed with other rat snakes.
 
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@-Robbie.......WOW....thank you very much for giving me an answer.
now that I am looking at them there is a very slight difference in the heads.
I will also check the anal scale tomorrow on my corns and the rat but again thank you for an actual answer and not some ambiguous post.
 
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