Whats the physical difference

[Lyion]

@-Robbie.......WOW....thank you very much for giving me an answer.
now that I am looking at them there is a very slight difference in the heads.
I will also check the anal scale tomorrow on my corns and the rat but again thank you for an actual answer and not some ambiguous post.

Wow. People spent alot of time on these answers, and they make good sense to me. You have no reason to be rude or hold some strange grudge because people want to help you.

 

[MiamiCracker]

1)---Yep, I know
2)---acting like what? someone who wants an answer and not opinion?
3)---No, I did not ask for an opinion. I asked "What's the physical difference" between a "corn" and a "rat" snake. I asked for a fact not an opinion.
4)---The same research all these other people have suggested I do, "google" and the like.
5)--- I did not fail to grasp Genus, specie, and sub-specie....as a matter of fact I have a firm grasp of them. as I said before I KNOW THEY ARE OF THE SAME GENUS.......and from what I can tell, and from what I gather from "researching" it a corn snake is just a fancy way of saying rat snake. I am seeing a little bit of a difference in the head from one snake to another. I have "corn snakes" and "rat snakes" but I have never been able to tell the difference between the two when it comes to all the morphs. I know what a black rat looks like and I know what a yellow rat looks like, but ......you what never mind
like I said before thank you for giving a real answer.

 

[MiamiCracker]

and there in lies the problem.......since this is the internet there is no way of conveying emotion with just typed words....so I will clarify for those who LOVE to hunt for "trolls" and acuse people of their own short comings.....

I WAS ACTUALLY THANKING HIM FOR THE INFORMATION. HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO ANSWERED THE QUESTION WITH WHAT TO LOOK FOR AS FAR AS PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES LIKE I ASKED TO BEGIN WITH AND NOT JUMP ON SOME TANGENT ABOUT MORPHS AND WHAT "COULD" BE.

again....Thank you Robbie

 

[RobbiesCornField]

1)---Yep, I know
2)---acting like what? someone who wants an answer and not opinion?
3)---No, I did not ask for an opinion. I asked "What's the physical difference" between a "corn" and a "rat" snake. I asked for a fact not an opinion.
4)---The same research all these other people have suggested I do, "google" and the like.
5)--- I did not fail to grasp Genus, specie, and sub-specie....as a matter of fact I have a firm grasp of them. as I said before I KNOW THEY ARE OF THE SAME GENUS.......and from what I can tell, and from what I gather from "researching" it a corn snake is just a fancy way of saying rat snake. I am seeing a little bit of a difference in the head from one snake to another. I have "corn snakes" and "rat snakes" but I have never been able to tell the difference between the two when it comes to all the morphs. I know what a black rat looks like and I know what a yellow rat looks like, but ......you what never mind
like I said before thank you for giving a real answer.

I apologize if my second posting (the one you're quoting here) sounded a bit harsh. You hadn't responded to my initial post, and when you posted again after that, I thought you had chosen to ignore it. Again, my apologies there.

That being said, your overall "tone" in the rest of the thread is reading as a bit abrasive and sarcastic. While that may not be your intention, it never hurts to think something through for a few more seconds before hitting that "submit" button. I am a firm believer that this is all just a simple case of miscommunication caused by the lack expression available in text.

I'm glad I was able to at least help you a little bit.

 

[Lyion]

@-nwheather....did I say I was?.....NO....stop assuming and if you are not going to answer the question than dont reply

@-Ryan_J....Just like the other ???????(not going to say what I want to say)........stop assuming.....I asked a question and I have researched it and they are the same .... just like you and nwheather........

why do people feel like putting in their 2 cents when their 2 cents have nothing to do with the topic?

You asked what was sounded rude, and honestly this sounded rude. When you are on the internet you have to be careful how you word things. What I made bold sounded was rude and very aggressive. Honestly, I cannot see how this could have any other intention besides being aggressive.

 

[susang]

Yes rat snakes and corn snakes can breed, hybrids, Creamsicle, Rootbeer... Ther are also hybrd king/corn, milk/corn combos; Jungle Corns, Christmas Corns...

A start to an answer, a start to research, on your part.

If it's the Amel-looking one that you posted in your other thread, then it could be a pure Corn or a hybrid Corn+Rat snake, which is known as a Creamsicle. Unfortunately there's no easy way to tell the difference unless you know its parentage. Pure Corns can look very like Creamsicles and vice versa.

I'm afraid there's no way for you to be 100% certain what you have there unless you can track back to the person who hatched it. As far as breeding goes, you could breed it successfully with a Corn or a range of other Rat Snakes - you just wouldn't know what to sell the offspring as.

A good answer. Susans is great too.

so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
I mean if the only real difference is name then...........................

And here in lies the problem since you don't want opinions, you want facts, there is a search function and that is the best way to learn. The only real difference is more then a name.
This is my .02, I have .03 but why waste it on someone who is rude and doesn't want it anyway.

 

[ratsncorns]

As a biologist, we do not use the term corn snake to identify them in the wild. We call them red rat snakes. Corn snake is just the trade name used in herpetoculture. So, if you go by this its easier to understand. But since you appear to have the grasp of it, I will stop there. Just thought I put this little tidbit in. Just to further confuse you

 

[Rich Z]

@-nwheather....did I say I was?.....NO....stop assuming and if you are not going to answer the question than dont reply

@-Ryan_J....Just like the other ???????(not going to say what I want to say)........stop assuming.....I asked a question and I have researched it and they are the same .... just like you and nwheather........

why do people feel like putting in their 2 cents when their 2 cents have nothing to do with the topic?

2)---acting like what? someone who wants an answer and not opinion?
3)---No, I did not ask for an opinion. I asked "What's the physical difference" between a "corn" and a "rat" snake. I asked for a fact not an opinion.
4)---The same research all these other people have suggested I do, "google" and the like.
5)--- I did not fail to grasp Genus, specie, and sub-specie....as a matter of fact I have a firm grasp of them. as I said before I KNOW THEY ARE OF THE SAME GENUS.......and from what I can tell, and from what I gather from "researching" it a corn snake is just a fancy way of saying rat snake. I am seeing a little bit of a difference in the head from one snake to another. I have "corn snakes" and "rat snakes" but I have never been able to tell the difference between the two when it comes to all the morphs. I know what a black rat looks like and I know what a yellow rat looks like, but ......you what never mind
like I said before thank you for giving a real answer.

Calm down, fella. People ARE answering your question. It's just that you don't realize that your answer requires OPINIONS. There are NO facts that are universally recognized nor accepted. Especially since there has been so much hybridization of the corn snakes (which are also known as Red Rat Snakes, btw) that the lines are rather blurred, to say the least. Yeah, I know you want a list of checkpoints, but that just does not exist. For everything that might be on such a checkpoint list, there will always be examples that will refute it. ALWAYS.

 

[bitsy]

4)---The same research all these other people have suggested I do, "google" and the like.

I apologise if this sounded patronising, but in this instance I don't believe that there's a single online picture gallery which specifically compares and contrasts Corns, with other Rat Snakes, with Corn hybrids. In this instance, I honestly believe that Google Image is your best chance of seeing the way that pure Corns, other pure Rats and Corn hybrids can look similar or dissimilar.

I was genuinely offering the best advice I could. As Rich Z says, there really aren't any clear-cut "rules" on how to tell Corns from hybrids involving Corns, by appearance only.

 

[bitsy]

At the risk of doing it again, Wikipedia's offering on Rat Snakes gives a very clear explanation of the "Rat Snake" family and the individual members of the family such as Corn Snakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_snake

Interesting that they occur in both the Americas and Eurasia. They're a hardy gang!

 

[ruraldean]

so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
I mean if the only real difference is name then...........................

Go and buy a cat. It could be a tiger or a tabby, but it'll still be a cat.

 

[starsevol]

Well yeah, kinda, sorta........
to use your analogy, yes all cod are fish but they cant breed with salmon.
so there in lies the problem.
I have a couple snakes 1 of which some say is a corn, yet others say rat...
i'm trying to figure out what it is so if I decide to breed it I will be looking for the "right" mate....ie Okeetee corn or Black rat......
thanks for the response though

If there is any question as to your snake's genetic makeup, either it should not be bred at all, or bred and the babies sold as hybrids.

so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
I mean if the only real difference is name then...........................

Wow! That is some kind of integrity you have going on there! Besides myself, I wonder how many other just placed you on their DNBF/DNST list?

It depends. If you had a pure Rat Snake like, for example, a Black Rat Snake, it would be easily visually distinguishable from a pure Corn. The issue here is with hybrids which involve Corn genetics. The physical appearance of some of these is very similar to pure Corns.

The issue of hybrid blood getting into "pure" Corn lines is a hot topic amongst some Corn owners/breeders, because there's no way (short of a genetics test which has not yet been developed) to 100% tell what's a hybrid that includes Corn from a pure Corn.


The name isn't the issue. The real difference is in the snake's genetics and not it's visual appearance. Corn vs hybrid. Same/similar appearance, different genetics, different name.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

"Quiet"? You've obviously never met me in person. :grin01: Also, I hardly classify myself as an "expert" in anything.

I'm just saying that there's the shape of the head that has more characteristics of rat than corn to me. The saddles, especially in coloration and fading, as well as the side pattern and fading again suggest to ME that it's not pure corn.

I have met this man in person. I believe he is the human form of Winnie the Pooh's pal Tigger. He is a delight.

@-nwheather....did I say I was?.....NO....stop assuming and if you are not going to answer the question than dont reply

@-Ryan_J....Just like the other ???????(not going to say what I want to say)........stop assuming.....I asked a question and I have researched it and they are the same .... just like you and nwheather........

why do people feel like putting in their 2 cents when their 2 cents have nothing to do with the topic?

Sorry kiddo. Open forum here.

Calm down, fella. People ARE answering your question. It's just that you don't realize that your answer requires OPINIONS. There are NO facts that are universally recognized nor accepted. Especially since there has been so much hybridization of the corn snakes (which are also known as Red Rat Snakes, btw) that the lines are rather blurred, to say the least. Yeah, I know you want a list of checkpoints, but that just does not exist. For everything that might be on such a checkpoint list, there will always be examples that will refute it. ALWAYS.

^^^^^ This guy has forgotten more about rat snakes and corn snakes than most of us will ever know. You should listen to him.....

 

[MysticExotics]

so if I bought a cheap rat snake and sold it as a corn nobody would know the difference.
I mean if the only real difference is name then...........................

Why would you want to do this?

Yes, there can be visable differences between the two, but sometimes it's hard to tell, without knowing the lineage.

@-nwheather....did I say I was?.....NO....stop assuming and if you are not going to answer the question than dont reply

Yeah, you did say it (hypothetically or not), & I was asking why you would want to. I didn't make any assumptions, I was merely following up your statement with a question, in relation to that statement.@-Ryan_J....Just like the other ???????(not going to say what I want to say)........stop assuming.....I asked a question and I have researched it and they are the same .... just like you and nwheather........

why do people feel like putting in their 2 cents when their 2 cents have nothing to do with the topic?

You asked a question, made some statements, & people responded to those.

Your attitude is really rude. People have answered your questions. Just because it may not be what you want to hear.

 

[Rich Z]

^^^^^ This guy has forgotten more about rat snakes and corn snakes than most of us will ever know. You should listen to him.....

Heck, I've forgotten more than I used to know! :laugh: