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My right to bear arms is under fire right now.

I have been advocating for better mental health resources in America. But not every one with a mental issues is going to go on a massacre either. It is a tricky topic. I have seen reports where they are blaming his autism, etc.
 
It seems like investigative reporting stops "investigating" once they get to the point where they see that guns were involved. So of course THAT is the cause.... :rolleyes:

On another line of thinking, heck, I like first person shooter games as much as the next guy, and I enjoy watching blood and guts action movies as well. This sort of entertainment just was not available when I was growing up, and I can't help but wonder how damaging this sort of thing may be to impressionable young minds that don't have any better role models to latch onto. Let's face it, the hero or heroine in these games and movies will just wade into rooms full of bad guys with guns ablazing with a display of ultimate control over their environment and destiny from the smoking end of a gun.

Maybe it's just a stretch, but are these young malleable minds just getting warped way too much to where these impressions become fantasies, and then the fantasies turned into an attempted reality when some emotional slight makes something just snap? Some kid then wants to escape reality, and the reality they wish to act out winds up getting people killed.

SOMETHING is definitely wrong these days. And it appears that no one is really interested at getting to the root cause, merely stopping when they get to a glaring symptom that fits the PC agenda of the day that pleases their editors.
 
The worst ever school mass killing was the Bath School disaster of 1927, long before the evil black rifle was even invented. In spite of recent high profile mass shootings, violent crime rates have been dropping for the last 20 years.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-violent-crime/index.html
Aberrations are not the rule, and in a population of 320 million people, some individuals will commit horrific crimes. They are the ones that get the publicity. It's a mistake to infer that they are representative of the larger population...because they are not.

Of course, that doesn't change 20 dead babies. What is the cause? What is the solution? I don't know. I don't like the idea of armed guards at schools, and having to buzz in to go from room to room like a prison, but it is probably coming. I don't like the idea of any weapons restrictions on law abiding civilians, but Feinstein will try on the 1st day of the congressional session. We can't accept "doing nothing," though I'm not sure the death toll wouldn't be exactly the same with any laws we might enact. The murderer was underage (20) and had two handguns, I don't see how the tragedy might have been averted if they were "more illegal."

So "why" did it happen? Guns? No gun zones? A Godless culture? Video games? Rock music? Bullies? Not keeping score in youth ball games? Anti-depressants or other drugs? I don't know.

I do know the names of both Columbine shooters and I can not name one victim. I am certain that is true for most people. I am not "blaming" the media, but I firmly believe for starters, we have GOT to stop making these monsters into celebrities.
 
Mr Z, I remember when we were told allowing our kids to watch the Roadrunner was harmful to our children. Too violent and they always popped back up after being bombed or shot or whatever. I'm saddened by all that has happened, but people who do this have more then a fantasy. They are the fantasy, they believe they are the ???? and nothing will convince them otherwise. Somehow they are righting a wrong. I have a step grand-son with Ausberger's and he is scarie, he gets something in his mind and that is it. He gets verbally abusive and physically violent and if he chooses not to take meds watchout. I am in no way defending him, there is none. I don't know what the solution is as someones civil rights will be tramped on. Take guns away, not a solution. Shove pills down the throats of mentally ill people, I don't know. I was still nursing when we would inject people with Haldol good bad I don't know.
 
Rich Z said:
It seems like investigative reporting stops "investigating" once they get to the point where they see that guns were involved. So of course THAT is the cause.... :rolleyes:

On another line of thinking, heck, I like first person shooter games as much as the next guy, and I enjoy watching blood and guts action movies as well. This sort of entertainment just was not available when I was growing up, and I can't help but wonder how damaging this sort of thing may be to impressionable young minds that don't have any better role models to latch onto. Let's face it, the hero or heroine in these games and movies will just wade into rooms full of bad guys with guns ablazing with a display of ultimate control over their environment and destiny from the smoking end of a gun.

Maybe it's just a stretch, but are these young malleable minds just getting warped way too much to where these impressions become fantasies, and then the fantasies turned into an attempted reality when some emotional slight makes something just snap? Some kid then wants to escape reality, and the reality they wish to act out winds up getting people killed.

SOMETHING is definitely wrong these days. And it appears that no one is really interested at getting to the root cause, merely stopping when they get to a glaring symptom that fits the PC agenda of the day that pleases their editors.
Click to expand...

As video games have become more and more prolific, violent crime rates in North America have been dropping. There's no correlation between violent media and actual violent crime.

There is definitely something unique going on in the US as these sorts of things aren't happening nearly so often in other countries. It's not the guns, or the media. Violent crime tracks with poverty the most, but also follows a lack of mental health facilities or treatment. The thing is, massacres are not statistically significant. That is, they happen so rarely that they don't really fit any statistical profile.

I'm reasonably certain that if we we're about to find out the reasons for 10 different massacres, we'd have 10 different reasons.
 
I do think that the government should have never shut down the mental health clinics that they had been running, they should have fixed the system that was broken, not thrown everyone out on the streets like they did.
 
Here is a story that was shared in my special needs kids online support group. I cried all the way through reading it. I am not sure I agree with her putting her name out there and bring the stigma to her child. But this is not an isolated experience of parents with special needs children. We fight everyday, every second for our children.

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

Here is a response from another parent of a special needs child.
http://www.disabilityandrepresentation.com/2012/12/16/no-you-are-not-adam-lanzas-mother/
 
I couldn't finish the story, I have seen my grandson act the same way. Threatening, punching out walls, doors windows, hitting his sisters, stealing because the store was stupid and he could. The last drive my daughter took him on was to juvie all he said was when will you bring my x-box. I don't say this as x-box was bad but that he thought he could have it in juvie it was his right.
Taking guns not the solution and comparing violence in US with other countries apples and oranges. Things happen in other countries we would not accept in US as law or the way of things.
I live in a state with a good health system and yet a few years ago they took away mental health as one of the things they would treat. Sad very sad.
 
I could never compare my child to a monster, not at 13. She sounds like she has given up on her son as well as advocating for his mental health.
 
My 17 y/o brother is the definition of a "gun nut." You'll find him in 4 places...his deer stand, shooting in tournaments at the range, working in my dad's gun store, or reloading ammo in the garage. He has more guns in his collection than most doomsday preppers. His favorite video games are Goldeneye and Big Game Hunter. He loves action movies.

Guess who will never shoot up his school? My brother!
 
Nova_C said:
I'm reasonably certain that if we we're about to find out the reasons for 10 different massacres, we'd have 10 different reasons.
Click to expand...

That is 100% the truth.

After the Gabby Giffords shooting several studies were conducted that looked at the suspect, suspect's life, perceived goal, victims, method and a few other variables. All of them were different and very little data overlapped with any of the other suspects. The only glaring similarity was that in post event interviews many sources close to the subjects expressed concerns about mental issues. You would get a lot of "well he/she seemed distant, I noticed a change, odd behaviors, etc." Now some of that could just be the interviewee wanting to make a better story, but what if it was not?

Mental health care in America is lacking. Teaching people how to spot problems and how to report concerns is virtually non-existent. People don't want to talk about it. He's not having problems, he's just different. She is not acting out, she is just expressing herself. They brush it under the rug and try to stay PC about everything.

It needs to be something people discuss openly, not hidden away out of fear of suppressing a person free spirit. It's not a free spirit when it's really an undiagnosed illness clawing it's way to the surface.
 
BloodyBaroness said:
That is 100% the truth.

After the Gabby Giffords shooting several studies were conducted that looked at the suspect, suspect's life, perceived goal, victims, method and a few other variables. All of them were different and very little data overlapped with any of the other suspects. The only glaring similarity was that in post event interviews many sources close to the subjects expressed concerns about mental issues. You would get a lot of "well he/she seemed distant, I noticed a change, odd behaviors, etc." Now some of that could just be the interviewee wanting to make a better story, but what if it was not?

Mental health care in America is lacking. Teaching people how to spot problems and how to report concerns is virtually non-existent. People don't want to talk about it. He's not having problems, he's just different. She is not acting out, she is just expressing herself. They brush it under the rug and try to stay PC about everything.

It needs to be something people discuss openly, not hidden away out of fear of suppressing a person free spirit. It's not a free spirit when it's really an undiagnosed illness clawing it's way to the surface.
Click to expand...

My daughter had to fight call the police everyday to report his actions. Bikes he didn't own showing up in the yard, bike locks he didn't own, wallets that weren't his, small things like food he couldn't afford (that was from convience store and owner said it was worth him calling the police). The reason she drove him to juvie, everytime the police came he would get out the window or back door. He finally had a warrant out for him. When he was 18 he got out and within hours was in jail, he had a concealed weapon.
I know people say we should have seen it when things like this happen, but even when 'we' see it, it is a battle to get help.
 
BloodyBaroness said:
That is 100% the truth.

After the Gabby Giffords shooting several studies were conducted that looked at the suspect, suspect's life, perceived goal, victims, method and a few other variables. All of them were different and very little data overlapped with any of the other suspects. The only glaring similarity was that in post event interviews many sources close to the subjects expressed concerns about mental issues. You would get a lot of "well he/she seemed distant, I noticed a change, odd behaviors, etc." Now some of that could just be the interviewee wanting to make a better story, but what if it was not?

Mental health care in America is lacking. Teaching people how to spot problems and how to report concerns is virtually non-existent. People don't want to talk about it. He's not having problems, he's just different. She is not acting out, she is just expressing herself. They brush it under the rug and try to stay PC about everything.

It needs to be something people discuss openly, not hidden away out of fear of suppressing a person free spirit. It's not a free spirit when it's really an undiagnosed illness clawing it's way to the surface.
Click to expand...

Autumn, you're so crazy. :noevil:
 
BloodyBaroness said:
Crazy like a fox.

Hey man, I pass my psych evals with flying colors.
Click to expand...

You know I love me some foxes.

Just because you know what to say to a shrink doesn't mean you aren't crazy. After all, you're a gun toting woman. :)

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll hiding in my tiny state, way the hell up here where you aren't. ;)
 
Heck, I dunno. Just seems like there SHOULD be a common cause lurking somewhere in all the data. I know when I was in high school (graduated 1968), kids used to bring guns in their vehicles quite often during hunting season and leave them there. During that time of year they either went hunting early before school, or were planning on going after school. No one thought anything of it. And certainly no one ever shot up the school. Actually I can't remember ever hearing of anyone shooting up a school or church or mall back in those days.

When kids would have arguments, they might go out to the parking lot and duke it out, but no one ever brought a gun to the fracas. Heck, I had my share of spats. But I found that where they wanted to slap and wrestle, a well placed sharp punch to the nose ended things pretty quickly. They didn't come back gunning for me later on.

Hell, who knows? Something has changed with people. IS still changing, evidently. Maybe there are multiple catalysts involved acting in tandem?

The scary thought is what the heck is going to become of this country (or even this world) if it doesn't get figured out, and those changed kids then become the leaders of society? Apparently there are some that don't think anything at all like we think. Can you imagine the consequences if someone of that disturbed nature had control over the nuclear launch codes instead of just having access to his parent's gun collection?

Heck, I just had a scary thought. What sort of things are whacked out people dreaming up to do on December 21, 2012 thinking the interpretation of the Mayan calendar is probably right and it's the end of the world anyway? I think I'll just stay home that day.
 
Rich Z said:
Heck, I dunno. Just seems like there SHOULD be a common cause lurking somewhere in all the data.
Click to expand...

One would logically assume so, but it was nothing but a loosely connected web.

This one had a broken home, this one was pushed by their parents, this one experimented with psychotropic drugs... all had some kind of varying degree of "mental" illness (no two were alike at all.)

Some had clinical diagnoses, but had stopped taking meds, some were still on meds. The bulk seemed to have only ever had a mild form treatment/counseling or had never received any kind of mental health care. Many also had a history of being bullied.

Something is way wrong. Turning a blind eye or glossing it over with this "they are just expressing themselves," is not the way to go about it.

How many times a month are we hearing about a young kid being driven to suicide by bullying? There was one right in my hometown last week.

Kids are viscous these days. I can see why, and how, an individual can be pushed to retaliate against their peers or family with violence. A mind can only be pushed so far before it breaks. There seems to be precious little being done about it.

We need to take a good hard look at the American home life and I think we will start to tackle this problem at the root.

Not sure if this was linked already, EDIT -whoops it was, but I'll link again because it's a tremendous article.

'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother': A Mom's Perspective On The Mental Illness Conversation In America
 
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