Why is every normal an Okeetee or Miami now?

[carol]

It's hard to enforce grey area and personal preference. How much tan can creep in before a Miami is a normal? How thin can the borders get before an Okeetee is no longer an Okeetee? :shrugs:

 

[starsevol]

I know its all subjective. I happen to have the worst eye for things though. The way I see it, if I can tell an RO from an amel, and an okeetee from a normal, ANY jamoka off the street should be able to as well! Even a noob jamoka

 

[Gralena]

I am still fairly new to the corn world and I agree it can be very misleading. The first reptile show I went to I saw several snakes labeled okeetee's....I had recently purchased one from Kathy Love and it was very clear to me that the ones they were selling were just normals....but people that did not know any better were picking them up like hotcakes.

I also purchased a corn at the last show I attended that was labeled a "silver queen ghost"....I'm still not 100% sold that she isn't just a typical ghost.

It is a shame that the truly "special" morphs or lines out there don't always get the credit they deserve.

 

[crackerhead]

Maybe there needs to be set benchmarks for each morph. Not unlike the AKC standards for dog breeds. You can't claim it's a "toy" poodle if it weighs 90lbs. and has a face like a mastiff! I see the same thing happening with Ball Python morphs as well. How many people try to pass off a light colored normal Ball as a Pastel just to get a higher price?
The problem I see with this approach though is the huge differences within some morphs; for example, Lavenders or as Carol pointed out border width in Okeetees. Given the differences who gets to decide the cutoffs? I don't know that the industry is organized enough to pull something like that off, yet. For now I say, call people on it when you see a gross mislabeling, but keep in mind that some owners are truely ignorant and not just going after a bigger price tag.
Terri

 

[Jcapicy]

I agree, I have seen this at many a show. Even with BP's it happens. I have a normal BP which I bought because of her aweseom peaching, but I woudn't call her a pastel. And I have seen a few hybrids called 100% corn morphs. Its a sad but true realitly that people will lie when they think it means more pofits. Just like we have all heard about poor information being dealt out at petstores to new owners so the store can make the sell or sell more products.

But I agree that there should be more distinction in which corns are truely what they are labeled.

 

[Roy Munson]

It's hard to enforce grey area and personal preference. How much tan can creep in before a Miami is a normal? How thin can the borders get before an Okeetee is no longer an Okeetee? :shrugs:

The old description of Miami (phase), or at least the one that Don used, included corns with completely tan groundcolor. But it couldn't be orange. Some of it IS subjective. A vibrant orange corn with distinct black borders, even if they're thin, qualifies as Okeetee (phase) to me.

 

[Nanci]

Well, a lavender is a genetic trait, not a "look" that a normal snake has.

 

[cka]

It's a little easier with the various morphs. You know a snow from an amel from a lavender etc.

The flip side to "mismarketing" are keepers who go out and by an "X" corn from a shop or show, see pics of something similar on the 'net and go "My snake kinda looks like that one so it must be". Every new keeper wants their snake to be special, and having a "normal" just doesn't sound too special.

 

[patm1313]

Well, the two things that I also think make the traits stand out is that both are from a specific area. Oketees are from central south carolina (correct me if i'm wrong) and miami's are from, well, IDK... Lol. I have heard that where they come from may effect how they eat and how they live because some are more tolerant to certain things based on where are they're from.

 

[abell82]

Actually, this has been annoying me for sometime now. ... All amel's are not, a reverse okeetee and every albino snake with reduced white is not a sunglow.
:sidestep:

I could not agree more!

 

[bitsy]

Maybe there needs to be set benchmarks for each morph.

That was tried in the UK by the Corn Snake Fan Club - there were even a couple of "Best of Morph" Corn Snake shows with trophies and everything. Ultimately, the entire enterprise imploded under the weight of internal politics and collapsed.

Sadly, setting morph standards now is probably shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Given the number of non-standard morph names, the seemingly random way in which morph names are used, and the unknown parentage of most pet Corns, I doubt you'd ever reach the type of concensus that would make standards useful.

And let's face it, even if there were agreed morph standards, you'd still have disreputable breeders selling Normals as "Miamis", "Okeetees" or "Super Hyper MegaClassics" to the unwitting newbie.

 

[SnakeCreations]

What a great thread!

I know its all subjective. I happen to have the worst eye for things though. The way I see it, if I can tell an RO from an amel, and an okeetee from a normal, ANY jamoka off the street should be able to as well! Even a noob jamoka

Seriously!! I mean, a little research goes a long way. Even my 12 year old will correct people when they mis-identify a morph. And then....

I am still fairly new to the corn world and I agree it can be very misleading. The first reptile show I went to I saw several snakes labeled okeetee's....I had recently purchased one from Kathy Love and it was very clear to me that the ones they were selling were just normals....but people that did not know any better were picking them up like hotcakes.

I also purchased a corn at the last show I attended that was labeled a "silver queen ghost"....I'm still not 100% sold that she isn't just a typical ghost.

It is a shame that the truly "special" morphs or lines out there don't always get the credit they deserve.

That is why purchasing from a breeder who you know and trust is important. When I wanted an Okeetee, I got em from Kathy Love... and so on. I was NOT disappointed!

Great posts you guys... really. I think some people really 'care' and some don't. I know I'm one of the "I care a LOT" category.....

Enjoy!

-Tonya

 

[Jrgh17]

That was tried in the UK by the Corn Snake Fan Club - there were even a couple of "Best of Morph" Corn Snake shows with trophies and everything. Ultimately, the entire enterprise imploded under the weight of internal politics and collapsed.

Sadly, setting morph standards now is probably shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Given the number of non-standard morph names, the seemingly random way in which morph names are used, and the unknown parentage of most pet Corns, I doubt you'd ever reach the type of concensus that would make standards useful.

And let's face it, even if there were agreed morph standards, you'd still have disreputable breeders selling Normals as "Miamis", "Okeetees" or "Super Hyper MegaClassics" to the unwitting newbie.

While I agree that it's never going to be perfect (or even close to it), I think we can still kinda "enforce" a standard here on the forums. Apparently, this is bugging (or has at least been noticed by) many people. If someone says "check out my okeetee", go ahead and tell them that in your opinion their snake doesn't qualify as an okeetee and why.

 

[Ohana]

I want to thank you for starting this thread. I have had this aurgument with a friend of mine who owns a pet store. She says that the "Miami Phase" is another name for Normal.

This is a hard aurguement to have with someone. I love the Normals and even in wild caught there is variation... that is natural gentics and selection at work.

But when we start breeding and selling the most important thing is to be sure that we are breeding and labeling honestly and not just to sell a product. After all this is not an inanimate object this is a living creature, I would rather sell a Normal as a Normal to someone who really wanted that and that cares enough to know the difference. Then to sell a Normal as a Miami Phase to someone that was just purchasing because they think they got something COOL.

Most of the time, these purchases are spontaneous and are not thought out. When I finally do get into breeding, I will want to make sure that I purchased from trustworthy well known breeders to start my stock.

Did I ramble..... Sorry sometimes I do that and don't make any sense!

 

[jazzgeek]

Great thread, Dean.

I guess it all boils down to two words for me: "cha" and "ching". Unscrupulous breeders will always do what it takes to make a sale.

regards,
jazz

 

[v_various]

This one girl has an amel who looks just like my Amel Boy, and she was calling it an RO. I tried to tell her RO were amels with thick white borders, and she kept telling me it *was* an RO, she just asked the breeder for an RO with not a lot of white. Some people just have no clue, and the breeders aren't going to tell them different if it means they can make more money.

Not to mention, the lady I got FinFang from said he was a miami, even though she knew the mom was an amel (I didn't know better at the time, but I can't complain because he was free). Another member of my reptile club showed me her candy canes...who had an awful lot of orange even though they weren't even a year old. And this a lady I've had other people tell me "oh, she's such an expert on genetics!" *eyeroll*

What is it with people!

 

[Jrgh17]

This one girl has an amel who looks just like my Amel Boy, and she was calling it an RO. I tried to tell her RO were amels with thick white borders, and she kept telling me it *was* an RO, she just asked the breeder for an RO with not a lot of white. Some people just have no clue, and the breeders aren't going to tell them different if it means they can make more money.

Not to mention, the lady I got FinFang from said he was a miami, even though she knew the mom was an amel (I didn't know better at the time, but I can't complain because he was free). Another member of my reptile club showed me her candy canes...who had an awful lot of orange even though they weren't even a year old. And this a lady I've had other people tell me "oh, she's such an expert on genetics!" *eyeroll*

What is it with people!

Apparently being an "expert on genetics" and having good eyesight are not the same things. :grin01:

 

[v_various]

Apparently being an "expert on genetics" and having good eyesight are not the same things. :grin01:

I would blame it on eyesight, but when I innocently exclaimed "candy canes? But they're SO ORANGE!" she replied with "well, some candy canes are like that".

I didn't argue, it wouldn't have been worth it.

 

[TandJ]

*LOL* Okeetee or not Okeetee??

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[patm1313]

And I have seen a few hybrids called 100% corn morphs.

I believe it's okay to call it a 100% corn morph, as long as you say very clearly that it's a hybrid.