Why is every normal an Okeetee or Miami now?

[Roy Munson]

:-offtopic Really sorry Dean, I saw your geek page, have you dealt with MB reptiles are they good people?

I don't have a "geek" page. Is there a Roy Munson there? A Dean Arnold? I'd love a link. I wouldn't appreciate it if someone was posing as me somewhere...

 

[susang]

:-offtopic Really sorry Dean, I saw your geek page, have you dealt with MB reptiles are they good people?

Should be: Really sorry Dean. Pat I saw your geek.....

 

[Roy Munson]

Should be: Really sorry Dean. Pat I saw your geek.....

Hah! Well that's a relief. I was ready to engage in a major investigatory operation! :spinner:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

lol "There can only be one..."

 

[Susan]

Back to the original topic, which I'm sorry that I didn't see earlier as it's a great thread, Dean!

When asked, I give my opinion on what morph I think a particular snake is. If locality is not known, I lean towards calling one of the "phase morphs" (normal/amel/etc) as such only if it is close to my minds ideal of that morph. Otherwise, I usually say that it's close to that phase and would be a nice starter in a selective breeding program, or that it's "just" a normal/amel/etc. However, if I'm not asked my opinion, and the snake is in that gray area, I'm guilty of often not voicing my opinion. But if there is a blatant mistake in nomenclature, I will say something.

To me, an "ideal" Okeetee phase is now more often called an Abbott's Okeetee (I'm guilty of not including the "phase" part when not dealing with locality, mostly because it's just more typing but also because locality isn't that important to me, although I know it is to some and I beg their forgiveness at my lapses) but I would not hesitate in calling those produced by breeders I know and trust (for example: Kathy, Don, Rich, plus others) as Okeetees, as I know that these breeders actually have a clue. The same is true for the other selectively bred morphs. I have one, and only one, selectively bred morph in my collection and that is a Miami phase motley that I purchased directly from Carol.

Unfortunately, there is a trend towards changing what the "ideal" of some of these selectively bred morphs actually is. A perfect example is the reverse Okeetee. Originally, an RO was an amel with richly colored saddles and ground color and wide white saddle borders...technically, the albino version of an Okeetee phase. Nowadays, I see too many "candycane rejects" labeled as RO's just because of the wide white borders. Unfortunately, their ground color is, to me, nothing short of literal pale vomitmel, and, to me, should be called "just" an amel.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist and when, and if, I do purchase another selectively bred morph, guaranteed, it will be at least close to my ideal. I also won't label any snakes I produce as a selectively bred morph unless it's close to that ideal. And yes, I'm including my pastel ghosts in that now. I refuse to label any as such anymore until I know for sure they will keep their pink/peach, and if that means not labeling them as anything other than a ghost until they are over a year old, so be it.

 

[SnakeCreations]

I'm a bit of a perfectionist and when, and if, I do purchase another selectively bred morph, guaranteed, it will be at least close to my ideal. I also won't label any snakes I produce as a selectively bred morph unless it's close to that ideal. And yes, I'm including my pastel ghosts in that now. I refuse to label any as such anymore until I know for sure they will keep their pink/peach, and if that means not labeling them as anything other than a ghost until they are over a year old, so be it.

Great Answer Susan... and a great standard.

-Tonya

 

[carol]

Ya, what Susan said. I'm often afraid to correct people when they post pics of their "Miamis" and "Okeetees". I feel sort of self righteous saying "That's not a Miami THIS is a Miami". Heck, obviously the poster feels the animal meet's their standards of the morph and who am I to judge their standards? Even if it is a vender just trying to make a buck or two off an added name, the buyer isn't blind and can decide for themselves whether or not it meets their standards.
It's all well and good and doesn't bother me any except when people email me wanting me to match other seller's "Miami" prices. :uhoh:

 

[jazzgeek]

Ya, what Susan said. I'm often afraid to correct people when they post pics of their "Miamis" and "Okeetees". I feel sort of self righteous saying "That's not a Miami...

Your indignation is righteous. Given the Miamis you produce, I think we'll all give you a bit of latitude on this one.

It's all well and good and doesn't bother me any except when people email me wanting me to match other seller's "Miami" prices. :uhoh:

Again, without sounding like a complete suck-up, I'd email them the photos of your Miamis and ask the potential customer if the other seller can match that. :shrugs:

regards,
jazz

 

[SnakeCreations]

Your indignation is righteous. Given the Miamis you produce, I think we'll all give you a bit of latitude on this one.

Again, without sounding like a complete suck-up, I'd email them the photos of your Miamis and ask the potential customer if the other seller can match that. :shrugs:

regards,
jazz

:laugh01::laugh01::laugh01:

What he said!!


Tonya

 

[Susan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by carol View Post
Ya, what Susan said. I'm often afraid to correct people when they post pics of their "Miamis" and "Okeetees". I feel sort of self righteous saying "That's not a Miami...

Your indignation is righteous. Given the Miamis you produce, I think we'll all give you a bit of latitude on this one.

Quote:
It's all well and good and doesn't bother me any except when people email me wanting me to match other seller's "Miami" prices.

Again, without sounding like a complete suck-up, I'd email them the photos of your Miamis and ask the potential customer if the other seller can match that.

regards,
jazz

Extremely well said, Dale! Anyone trying to match their Miami phase to one of Carol's would have a better chance of winning Best of Show at Westminster with their junkyard mongrel. Yes, there are breeders of excellent Miami phase corns, but there is just something special about a Low Belly Miami. (I don't mean to be a total suck-up, but I may also be in the market for a female Miami motley this year, finances willing..."wink-wink". )

The exceptional specimens of any selectively bred variety, or any morph, for that matter, stand out and can be recognized as such by any corn enthusiast that knows at least the genetic/morph basics.

 

[v_various]

Ya, what Susan said. I'm often afraid to correct people when they post pics of their "Miamis" and "Okeetees". I feel sort of self righteous saying "That's not a Miami THIS is a Miami".

Well, someone had to do it to me. I didn't know anything about corn morphs in the beginning, and telling everyone what the breeder told me. That FinFang was a miami. The girl who first told me was kind of harsh though, calling me and the breeders idiots, which was a little too harsh I think. So now at least when I call out others I can do it in a nice way, and have a personal example, kind of "I've been in your shoes" story to go with it. I've had a hard time convincing one person (the RO owners who asked for an RO with 'not a lot of white') but if you explain things logically and are nice you can get your point across and not end up internet enemies.

 

[PhoenixRevival]

Has anyone though of putting a sticky in the Pic forum with hatchling and adult pics of specific breeds?

I know this board in general has alot of senior members who know their stuff, but this board is also great for newbies like me who either are looking for information on Corns prior to buying and stuff that comes along after.=)

Just an idea:spinner:

 

[Susan]

Has anyone though of putting a sticky in the Pic forum with hatchling and adult pics of specific breeds?

I know this board in general has alot of senior members who know their stuff, but this board is also great for newbies like me who either are looking for information on Corns prior to buying and stuff that comes along after.=)

Just an idea:spinner:

The idea has been brought up many times before, but since there can be such a variety of looks even in just one particular morph, it's been generally agreed upon that it would be easier for someone to simply run searches for whatever particular morph they want to see photos of, or to look at the morph guides and/or price lists found on many breeders' websites. A thread that is close to having an example of each morph can be found here:

http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60218&highlight=morph+photo

 

[Ohana]

Unfortunately, there is a trend towards changing what the "ideal" of some of these selectively bred morphs actually is. A perfect example is the reverse Okeetee. Originally, an RO was an amel with richly colored saddles and ground color and wide white saddle borders...technically, the albino version of an Okeetee phase. Nowadays, I see too many "candycane rejects" labeled as RO's just because of the wide white borders. Unfortunately, their ground color is, to me, nothing short of literal pale vomitmel, and, to me, should be called "just" an amel.

I am going to agree with this.

My little amel I got from a rehabber. She had about 15 babies, she new one of the parents to be an Okeetee. But when I saw this snake, I questioned whether or not it was actually an Okeetee. Then she said the other parent might be a snow. So that the baby I picked out was probably an RO.

I was uncertain about this claim, so I posted the pics on here and asked the experts. It was confirmed... a pretty amel. Great, that is what I thought.

I don't even know enough about genetics to know if the pairing would make RO's. But she also wasn't sure of the pairing... she picked up the adults (three in one enclosure 1.2) and the hatchlings and was just trying to rehome all the babies.

Again, there are a lot of things that are mislabeled. I am generally a skeptic so I always question someone's claims unless they are really well known. Then I am less likely to question.

Great Topic!

 

[diamondlil]

Has anyone though of putting a sticky in the Pic forum with hatchling and adult pics of specific breeds?

I know this board in general has alot of senior members who know their stuff, but this board is also great for newbies like me who either are looking for information on Corns prior to buying and stuff that comes along after.=)

Just an idea:spinner:

The photo threads specific to each morph, like 'Show us your normals' are great, because they show the variety in one thread.