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Interesting video.......

My avatar keeps being brought up as a criticism of me. Michael/Ricky. Please, do you have any criticism of anything I've said specifically? Quote me first so I know what you're talking about. So far you attacked my character and my position, but you clearly have no idea what my position is since you have repeatedly mischaracterized it.

No more ad hominem, no more vague innuendo. For once in this thread, criticize something specific.
 
Just comparing Canada to America:

Fair enough; allow me to compare the US to the rest of the industrialized world:

Health care in the United States is provided by many separate legal entities. The U.S. spends more on health care per capita than any other nation in the world.[1] Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 15.2% of GDP, second only to the tiny Marshall Islands among all United Nations member nations.[1] The health share of GDP is expected to continue its historical upward trend, reaching 19.5 percent of GDP by 2017.[2] In 2007, the U.S. spent a projected $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person.[3] According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the U.S. is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system.[4] In the United States, around 84.7% of citizens have some form of health insurance; either through their employer (59.3%), purchased individually (8.9%), or provided by government programs (27.8%; there is some overlap in these figures).[5] Certain publicly-funded health care programs help to provide for the elderly, disabled, children, veterans, and the poor, and federal law mandates public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. U.S. government programs accounted for over 45% of health care expenditures, making the U.S. government the largest insurer in the nation. Per capita spending on health care by the U.S. government placed it among the top ten highest spenders among United Nations member countries in 2004.[6]
Americans without health insurance coverage at some time during 2007 totaled about 15.3% of the population, or 45.7 million people.[5] Health insurance costs are rising faster than wages or inflation, and "medical causes" were cited by about half of bankruptcy filers in the United States in 2001.[7]
The debate about U.S. health care concerns questions of access, efficiency, and quality purchased by the high sums spent. The World Health Organization (WHO) in 2000 ranked the U.S. health care system first in both responsiveness and expenditure, but 37th in overall performance and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[8][9] The WHO study has been criticized both for its methodology and for a lack of correlation with user satisfaction ratings.[10][11]

(Italics and bolding mine.)

And yep, I'm not even digging either, and also sourced from Wikipedia... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States)


Two things I've learned in life, science works
Agreed! That's why I bought this T-Shirt from xkcd.com:

science_square.png science_square_1.png

...and capitalism is less flawed than the other idea.

Agreed, but only to the extent that the fact is that there is no true, pure capitalism in ANY nation. The USA is close, and I'm appreciative of it, but the market exists within the structure of laws - primarily the UCC - with help of other laws (like child labor laws and anti-trust laws) and regulatory oversight from agencies like the FDA and the USDA.

Yes, caveat emptor. But as I see it, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a government agency making sure that the warfarin I'm now dependent on to keep from stroking out at an early age IS warfarin, and not a sugar pill, just as the livestock I eat has a minimal level of tiny livestock, looking for my intestines to be their next host. :D

Dale
 
I'm getting that shirt.
2lxiji0.jpg
 
I've lived a long 21 years, that's how. My age has nothing to do with my opinions, therfore my "life experience" is not measured in years.
I am a twin with a very rare muscular disease, have a diverse family including african americans, and was raised by a single mother. My experience can't be recreated or judged by someone in a similair situation, and to simplify it with me being 21 would be an understatement.
I know people much older than myself, and to say their age makes them wiser would be false. Maybe my age makes me more passionate, or relentless, but it does not tell the story of my experience.
 
Good find, you figured out that my step brother created an account. I want to know why you wanted to do the digging to figure that out, because he would have openly shared that information. He was just upset about some of the posts left about him.

Yeah, right......... I guess you don't realize that I also run FaunaClassifieds with the Board of Inquiry where this sort of thing happens ALL of the time there. And your response is as classic as it gets when they get outed for trying to fudge the statistics with false registrations making supporting statements to bolster their argument. Don't EVEN think you can get me to believe your cockamamie "explanation" for one instant.

As to what tipped me off to check up on you "guys"....

This whole "NOBAMA" stuff is ridiculous, and it's sad a 23 year old knows more about honesty, integrity, politics, and leadership, than any of you McCain supporters. Your clearly willing to manipulate the truth just to try and denegrate Barack Obama, but your ignorance won't mean anything.
.........

I hate having to be a 23 year old telling people who are 30+ the difference between right and wrong. I feel bad for your children, because the last thing we need is another generation of self-righteous arrogants who only care about making themselves appear intellectual. "The biggest threat to truth is ignorance". Learn that!.

ricky87_age.jpg


I thought it intriguing that Ricky87 claims in that post to be 23 when his profile states he is 21. It is REAL unusual for a REAL someone to not know how old they are, but not at all unusual of a flub for someone to trip over when they are using a false registration and simply FORGOT which ID they were posting under at the time.

So can it man. You are BUSTED. So much for your claim of knowing about "honesty and integrity". Nothing you claim as being a fact can be taken at face value because you have painted yourself a LIAR and a FRAUD. If you can't support your arguments with the TRUTH, then you have to resort to fraud and lies in order to attempt to do so.
 
Yeah, right......... I guess you don't realize that I also run FaunaClassifieds with the Board of Inquiry where this sort of thing happens ALL of the time there. And your response is as classic as it gets when they get outed for trying to fudge the statistics with false registrations making supporting statements to bolster their argument. Don't EVEN think you can get me to believe your cockamamie "explanation" for one instant.

As to what tipped me off to check up on you "guys"....



ricky87_age.jpg


I thought it intriguing that Ricky87 claims in that post to be 23 when his profile states he is 21. It is REAL unusual for a REAL someone to not know how old they are, but not at all unusual of a flub for someone to trip over when they are using a false registration and simply FORGOT which ID they were posting under at the time.

So can it man. You are BUSTED. So much for your claim of knowing about "honesty and integrity". Nothing you claim as being a fact can be taken at face value because you have painted yourself a LIAR and a FRAUD. If you can't support your arguments with the TRUTH, then you have to resort to fraud and lies in order to attempt to do so.

Rich... I love you, be ready for some more of :sobstory:from this liar.
 
All right. Here goes a wall of text.

Michael, there is something you clearly aren't getting. In fact, there are a great many things that you clearly aren't getting. First of all, I am not American, so my opinion is removed from your political system. It also gives me a point of view vastly different from your own in several ways, not the least of which I don't have the baggage of a history of black slavery. Canada's racial history is just as dark and awful as the US in many ways, but we don't have the specter of slavery influencing our politics nearly to the degree that the US does.

That said, I can understand your opinion that whites cannot understand the true nature of being a minority, even though I vehemently disagree with it. What I can't tolerate, though, is your claim that whites are ignorant by virtue of being white. That is, frankly, racist. It's the very definition of racism.

Moving on. You've claimed that many people here have said what you claim to be BS about Obama. If so, quote it and show it to be false. You don't get a free pass to simply throw around accusations just because you feel like it. Nor do you get to paint the people on this board with the same brush you paint the people in your life who are exactly what you say they are. There isn't some kind of conspiracy here and there are many, many different opinions all of which have the same weight and deserve the same level of consideration. The disrespect you've shown the myriad of opinions presented in this thread is abominable.

Now, my own person side to this. You lop me in with people who you claim are trying to disparage Obama in order to garner support for McCain. You claim this because my avatar is a caricature of Obama as a rock star. I explained my avatar, but you are clearly to pig headed to see what that means. I am desperately hoping that Obama wins the American election. I think McCain is more of the same as Bush and if I could vote in the American election, I would vote for Obama so hard.. I have the avatar because of the admiration I have for Obama, who he is and what he's managed to evoke in the American electorate, particularly the younger voters. He is a political rock star and I hope he gets 8 years of kickass gigs. THAT is the point of my avatar and I will thank you for ending your wild claims about not only the picture, but my own perspective.

Finally, I have kept personal attacks out of this thread, but frankly, I think this is the perfect time for one to try to get a point across to you. I don't give a rat's [censored] about your past, your difficulties or anything else about you. I really don't. And neither do the rest of us. They are immaterial to this debate and they certainly don't give your arguments weight. Your opinion has the same veracity of anyone else's here. What does not, however, are you judgments and your personal attacks against the people here, or anywhere for that matter. Your a spoiled brat who thinks your hard life gives you reason to look down on and insult people you don't even know. You said yourself we don't know you or your situation, but you don't know the people on this board, or their situation. You are not the most tragic person and there are, I guarantee, millions of people who have much harder and more tragic lives than you. Regardless of you age, it wouldn't matter if it was 21, 11, or 51, you're a child throwing a tantrum for no good reason and it's deplorable.
 
You fail to see that it's systematic imprisonment. Do you know what happened to alot of slave plantations when slavery ended? they turned right into prisons. If you can't look at what might cause these dramatic numbers, then can you tell me what makes african americans more likely to commit crimes?
We build prisons to create jobs and guess what... they need to be filled somehow. Now who is more likely to be targeted to fill these prisons, white people? or minorities?

Slave plantations BECAME prisons? Interesting factoid, I guess, but not too believable. Got any documented evidence to support that wild claim? Sounds like some sort of text book make believe statement you might read in a racist propaganda rag to me. So who is making "racist' statements now?

So, now you are excusing documented criminal behavior of African-Americans because of the environment, their history, and their being repressed by the "white man"? That they BECAME criminally inclined BECAUSE of those prisons being built to hold them? Sheesh....... So the white man built these prisons as "make work" exercises and then needed to find some poor innocent (minority) suckers to fill them up with? Heck, if I wanted to get the prisons filled up quickly and could pick and choose anyone regardless of whether they were actually engaging in criminal behavior, I would pick a MAJORITY simply because there are a LOT more of them around and I don't have to hunt so hard to find some of them. ;)

Where do you get this stuff? Mad Magazine? :crazy01:

Honestly I came into this discussion feeling pretty neutral about both major players for the election (meaning I did not like either of them equally), but if YOU are representative of the sort of supporters that Obama has on his side, and this is the sort of rhetoric that is being pandered about by his supporters, then I am DEFINITELY leaning towards McCain being the lesser of the two evils here. Much as it does pain me to have to think that way, I think it best to vote for ANYONE but Obama.

I REALLY, REALLY don't know whether to laugh or cry at all this....... But I think during election day I will not want to be out on the streets when the results are finally tallied. If he DOES lose, I think there are going to be a bunch of sore losers out there...... In my humble opinion.
 
Nova, are you talking to michael, ricky or celtic?

Does it matter?

Richy, he doesn't represent Obama supporters at all. I spend my days hanging out on the Penny Arcade Debate & Discourse board (Which is where I picked up my aggressive debating. Those guys are merciless) where there are a ton of Obama supporters who are very smart, very reasonable, and who have respect for people who keep themselves informed and understand their choices, regardless of which way they may vote.
 
Slave plantations BECAME prisons? Interesting factoid, I guess, but not too believable. Got any documented evidence to support that wild claim? Sounds like some sort of text book make believe statement you might read in a racist propaganda rag to me. So who is making "racist' statements now?

Agreed, it IS a wild claim; but to claim that an unsupported claim instantly becomes "reverse" racism - just because of the subject itself - is flawed logic.

Honestly I came into this discussion feeling pretty neutral about both major players for the election (meaning I did not like either of them equally), but if YOU are representative of the sort of supporters that Obama has on his side, and this is the sort of rhetoric that is being pandered about by his supporters, then I am DEFINITELY leaning towards McCain being the lesser of the two evils here. Much as it does pain me to have to think that way, I think it best to vote for ANYONE but Obama.
I could make the same claim about the yahoos shouting "MUSLIM!", "Off with his head!", "Terrorist!" and "Kill him!" at Palin rallies.

If you're basing your vote on ill-informed and vitriolic (albeit passionate) partisans FROM EITHER SIDE, then you're doing it wrong. If you're voting - for or against - personality instead of the principles/policies you're most aligned with, you're doing it wrong.

I REALLY, REALLY don't know whether to laugh or cry at all this....... But I think during election day I will not want to be out on the streets when the results are finally tallied. If he DOES lose, I think there are going to be a bunch of sore losers out there...... In my humble opinion.

This has been, in my lifetime, the most hotly contested Presidential runoff; there will be sore losers out there REGARDLESS of who wins....in my humble opinion. :D

Dale
 
Let me let you in on a little bit about me, okay guys. My name is David A Szymkiewicz, I am 23 years old, and my little brothers are in fact Ricky and Michael. Pretending that I don't exist is not of my concern, and I would hope people of your age would have better things to do other than harrass 2 twenty year olds about their history. I wasn't even going to get involved in this, and I told both of them to find a new site to post under, but I could tell by passing by their computer that their was a lot of filth being passed around. If you come to your senses, I would be glad to tell you a bit about me, though this will probably be one of the few times I am willing to share my experiences with people who don't know what fresh air is!. I was an English major at UNH before I transfered to Brown University to get my PHD in Sociology. This Fall I will be enlisting in the Peace Corps, along with my 3 cousins, so undermining me and my brothers is rude and very dis-respectful. My brothers father lost his life serving this great country, and would be very proud of the very great young men they've become. Both of them are wise beyond their years, and if I didn't love them so very much I would have them join me this fall. As for you inquiring about physical proof of a slave plantation turned directly into a prison, that was me informing him earlier this afternoon about that, and the prison is Angola State prison, in Louisianna, and was the last plantation in the state of Loisianna. As far as being an honest Obama supporter Nova C, I would like to hear about what you've done for his campaign. This past summer me and 16 other schoolmates did work directly for his campaign, and my little brother Michael was their to assist me over his computer every step of the way. I'm proud of his suppport, and Mr.Obama would be as well. Very few young people have taken interest like he has, and none of you could say anything that could ever change how I feel about him. I hope I get to return to them soon, and I'm sad at the lack of understanding that you people have shown him. I don't blame him for not getting into his life story, and I tell him all the time what a great inspiration he is for the rest of us. I really do hope this will be the last time that his words get mocked, and for all of your sake I can only say that it's people like you that have made me realize why other peoples of the world find us Americans to be over-privileged. My first tour will be in South America, and from their I will try to do a tour in the Middle-East, and I hope some of you will find the heart to join me. If you want to really help your country than message me, or my brothers, and I will see to it personally that I connect you with an organization, like the Peace Corps, that will be glad to entertain your service. May god be with you all, and I wish the best for you and your families, as I know you would for mine!.
 
You fail to see that it's systematic imprisonment. Do you know what happened to alot of slave plantations when slavery ended? they turned right into prisons. If you can't look at what might cause these dramatic numbers, then can you tell me what makes african americans more likely to commit crimes?
We build prisons to create jobs and guess what... they need to be filled somehow. Now who is more likely to be targeted to fill these prisons, white people? or minorities?
I think you missed my point. I'm not talking about why one race commits more crime than another or what their heritage is that makes them more likely to commit a crime. I'm talking about racial profiling... will someone be more leery of a race that's statistically more likely to commit a crime than another race? How can you blame them if they are? The numbers don't lie.

When I was your age I had my bags checked by security at the airport back when it was uncommon and people approached me with drugs all the time. Was it because I was white... no... it was because I had long hair and fit the profile.
 
Celtic I hope that you have had the chance to go through and read the entire thread. Allot of this debate was started due to misunderstanding, and now has gotten out of hand. What was being originally said was that Ricky needed to stop personally attacking the members on this forum which he continued to do. He and Michael were responding to post before they understood why they were being posted in the first place, and then attacked the person not the link by providing a good argument. By attack people and their beliefs it put everyone on the defensive and they started attacking back. By providing information their post would have been accepted and openly discussed. Instead they choose to attack the people on this forum which is not right. In quoting Ricky I was not trying to paint him in a bad light I was merely pointing out what he said that was considered attack and belittle to the members on this thread. Ricky was also stating that he is 23 but Michael is 21. Due to members in the past hurting several of us by creating multiple accounts we were skeptical. On yours it says you are from New England but clearly have the same IP address. Look at it from our point of view, it was suspicious. I hope that you can look back in the thread and see where none of this started as attacking is was open discussion with people on both sides. I also hope that you can see the way in which some of Ricky and Michaels responses came across and how disrespectful some of them were.
 
Since I cannot edit I need to correct this sentance
"and then attacked the person not the link by providing a good argument."
attacked the person instead of attacking the link by providing a good argument.
 
First off, I'm SO glad I have a brother who cares enough to go to bat for me. Thanks Dave. As for me making "attacks", no, they weren't attacks, and I've tried on many posts to clarify my stance, but none of you wanted to listen to those posts. My history, integrity, and honesty have all come into question, and Rich actually thought he could try and call me out by saying my brother and I were actually Dave. Too bad you were SO very far off. I still don't get why you would think I would create another identity to try and fool you, when I've been nothing but honest with how I feel in the first place. Maybe you, and Drizzt, and Nova C, and everyone else thought it was a lie, but in hindsight I find it troubling that you would believe something so strongly and harrass me for it. I've been nothing, but honest, and I hope these posts about me lying about my big brother DO continue, because it makes your entire point look incredibly weak. Especially to those of us who happen to know the truth. None of you have taken aim at the racial profiling comments, the asian jokes, and those incredibly dis-honest videos, but if you find it more entertaining to insult me, than I suppose theirs nothing I can do about it in the first place. And Cassie K, on a side note I never said "at least I watch all the debates" as a slight against you. I said it as a statement that even though I dis-like McCain, I still hear his views, and when he says things I can get with, I totally listen. I hope my brother gave you all the info you wanted on the jail/plantation that you wanted, and maybe it will enlighten you to how the prison system really runs. I also advise you to learn about Sean Bell as well, because everytime you scoff at racial profiling you hurt the wife, family, and children he left behind. My advice would be to watch "My Two Cents" on BETJ, and maybe you will understand views from a non-white perspective. Thats all I'm going to say, and I hope you got all the info you needed from me and my brothers!.
 
First off, I'm SO glad I have a brother who cares enough to go to bat for me. Thanks Dave. As for me making "attacks", no, they weren't attacks, and I've tried on many posts to clarify my stance, but none of you wanted to listen to those posts. My history, integrity, and honesty have all come into question, and Rich actually thought he could try and call me out by saying my brother and I were actually Dave. Too bad you were SO very far off. I still don't get why you would think I would create another identity to try and fool you, when I've been nothing but honest with how I feel in the first place. Maybe you, and Drizzt, and Nova C, and everyone else thought it was a lie, but in hindsight I find it troubling that you would believe something so strongly and harrass me for it. I've been nothing, but honest, and I hope these posts about me lying about my big brother DO continue, because it makes your entire point look incredibly weak. Especially to those of us who happen to know the truth. None of you have taken aim at the racial profiling comments, the asian jokes, and those incredibly dis-honest videos, but if you find it more entertaining to insult me, than I suppose theirs nothing I can do about it in the first place. And Cassie K, on a side note I never said "at least I watch all the debates" as a slight against you. I said it as a statement that even though I dis-like McCain, I still hear his views, and when he says things I can get with, I totally listen. I hope my brother gave you all the info you wanted on the jail/plantation that you wanted, and maybe it will enlighten you to how the prison system really runs. I also advise you to learn about Sean Bell as well, because everytime you scoff at racial profiling you hurt the wife, family, and children he left behind. My advice would be to watch "My Two Cents" on BETJ, and maybe you will understand views from a non-white perspective. Thats all I'm going to say, and I hope you got all the info you needed from me and my brothers!.
First off, "Age ain't nothin' but a number!", and second off, I never called you a fool, so if thats your game then so be it. As for being half your age, what do I care?. I've experienced more than you could ever imagine, so that doesn't phase me one bit. I did say I wasn't as careful as I should have been, but that propaganda video really set me off. No one should manipulate that much just to get a few "on the fence" people to vote McCain. The truth is I do my research, I take my time to elaborate, and I respect any opinion that isn't ignorant, manipulative, or condescending. If you still don't respect me, thats fine. I just hope you know that I am open minded, regardless of selective quoting, and I do not think you are a fool by any means. This is a political thread, and I feel obliged to express my political opinion. Maybe you don't want to hear a 23 year old speak, because you have preconcieved ideas of what someone my age may think, but I can't help that. Maybe I should just create a new profile and lie about my age next time!.
??????????
 
None of you have taken aim at the racial profiling comments, the asian jokes, and those incredibly dis-honest videos, but if you find it more entertaining to insult me, than I suppose theirs nothing I can do about it in the first place.

This is a flat out lie. Quoting my first post on the second page of this thread:

That video was ridiculous. I learned nothing other than the author loves to quote mine and only show what they want you to see. Regardless of whether or not there was any truth to what was said, that was textbook propaganda, especially the John McCain stuff at the end.

Anyway, the US isn't a self-contained entity. It's part of a world community that has seen many of the same troubles. The economic boom caused most of the housing bubble. Look at Canada. Home prices where I live more than doubled in less than five years. There was a time when houses were going up by $20,000 a month. Canada has no equivalent to what that author is claiming caused the housing bubble. Banks in Canada are healthy, the economy is set to grow despite the financial crisis affecting much of the world.

The Republicans have been in power for 8 years. Am I to really believe that they have been powerless during those 8 years? Like I said, ridiculous.
 
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