Interesting video.......

[tom e]

Sorry I didn't cover the Preacher problem and the Ayers thing..
Obviously I'm just giving you some insight here in my thinking. So yeah it's opinion here it goes.

George W Bush had a preacher problem too. Remember the guy who used to call him monday mornings and pray to open his meetings over speaker phone? Wasn't he the leader of the American Evangelical something or other? Wasn't he secretly buying meth and sex from male prostitutes?
I'm not saying this reflects on George Bush. It's what Jazz might call a delicious bit of irony, but to associate that to GWB's character is also a logical fallacy. (I believe it's called guilt by association?)
I don't think Obama really has to answer for another man, even if he was even closer in relation to him. I shudder to think who they'd dig up and throw at me if I ever ran for office. He did need to repudiate and or renounce him and his comments, and I believe he's famously done both..

 

[tom e]

Tom, I am the one that made the God and Country comment and you have blown it way beyond what was intended. I could have said I believe in Mother and Apple Pie. I hope you don't have issues with apples.

If I misunderstood you, I apologize. I love apples.

 

[Ricky87]

Sorry I didn't cover the Preacher problem and the Ayers thing..
Obviously I'm just giving you some insight here in my thinking. So yeah it's opinion here it goes.

George W Bush had a preacher problem too. Remember the guy who used to call him monday mornings and pray to open his meetings over speaker phone? Wasn't he the leader of the American Evangelical something or other? Wasn't he secretly buying meth and sex from male prostitutes?
I'm not saying this reflects on George Bush. It's what Jazz might call a delicious bit of irony, but to associate that to GWB's character is also a logical fallacy. (I believe it's called guilt by association?)
I don't think Obama really has to answer for another man, even if he was even closer in relation to him. I shudder to think who they'd dig up and throw at me if I ever ran for office. He did need to repudiate and or renounce him and his comments, and I believe he's famously done both..

Touche!. That means that, because my old friends abuse drugs and alchohol and my father and his father were violent, I have to go to rehab and anger management. Guilt by association is right!. I think we would all have some spotty history under those standards!.

 

[The_Thunderer]

Sorry I didn't cover the Preacher problem and the Ayers thing..
Obviously I'm just giving you some insight here in my thinking. So yeah it's opinion here it goes.

George W Bush had a preacher problem too. Remember the guy who used to call him monday mornings and pray to open his meetings over speaker phone? Wasn't he the leader of the American Evangelical something or other? Wasn't he secretly buying meth and sex from male prostitutes?
I'm not saying this reflects on George Bush. It's what Jazz might call a delicious bit of irony, but to associate that to GWB's character is also a logical fallacy. (I believe it's called guilt by association?)
I don't think Obama really has to answer for another man, even if he was even closer in relation to him. I shudder to think who they'd dig up and throw at me if I ever ran for office. He did need to repudiate and or renounce him and his comments, and I believe he's famously done both..

Well, if we eliminate those arguments, then it comes down to whether we believe Government and the continual addition to it, is the answer to every problem we have. I believe it isn't.

As someone who stands by what the Founding Father's said and did, I'm surprised that one such as yourself would vote for a man who would increase the ONE thing the Founding Fathers hated above all else... excessive government.

I guess I'll have to be surprised!

We'll just have to agree to disagree. As far as this goes, I'm done. I just don't feel the need to be called a "fool" by someone who hasn't lived but "half" my life! LOL! This is why I avoid these threads in the first place!!!!!

 

[jazzgeek]

It's what Jazz might call a delicious bit of irony, but to associate that to GWB's character is also a logical fallacy. (I believe it's called guilt by association?)

Yes, it is a logical fallacy. Yes, it is called guilt by association.

But when it comes to irony vis-a-vis President Bush and the clergy, I prefer Kirbyjon Caldwell.

Who is Kirbyjon Caldwell, you ask?

Like Jeremiah Wright, Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell has led a "mega-church" in a major city - in this instance, Houston, not Chicago - matter of fact, Caldwell's Windsor United Methodist Church is the nation's largest United Methodist congregation. Caldwell, like Wright, just happens to be black.

Caldwell also understands the context of Wright's "G-D America" sermon, especially the Hebraic translation from Wright's claim that "it's in the Bible".

Reverend Caldwell also officiated the Jenna Bush wedding, and is considered a "spiritual advisor" to President Bush, having delivered the benedictions at both the 2000 and 2004 inaugurations.

And waaaay back in January - maybe even before the Iowa caucuses - Reverend Kirbyjon Caldwell officially endorsed Senator Barack Obama for President.

Now THAT'S irony you can believe in.

Dale

 

[tom e]

I don't think anyone here is a fool. Hopefully you don't mean where I said McCain would be foolish to dispute the document. My old Dad is as staunchly conservative as anyone here, and I know he's about the smartest guy I ever met. We debate all the time as well and we get heated as you can imagine, lol. He even has people from his church come into the office to call people up for support on Prop 8 (the california initiative to change our constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman).. That make me CRAZY while I'm working, but you know what? He believes in it. And I admire him for that.

And now Jen has let me know that if I don't leave this argument and play Monopoly with her, she will leave me, LOL. Goodnight all..

 

[The_Thunderer]

And now Jen has let me know that if I don't leave this argument and play Monopoly with her, she will leave me, LOL. Goodnight all..

LOL! Tell her, "Hey, I just bought you a highly prized serpent!!! Doesn't that win me any free time?"

LOL. Just KIDDING!!! Don't you go do that or she WILL leave.

Enjoy your Monopoly game... but I'm rooting for Jen!!! LOL.

 

[Drizzt80]

This post flat-out disguists me. Anyone who swallows this propaganda is just plain ignorant. . . . . stuff is ridiculous, and it's sad a 23 year old knows more about honesty, integrity, politics, . . . administation . . . greebs. . . . I hate having to be a 23 year old telling people who are 30+ the difference
. . .
the last thing we need is another generation of self-righteous arrogants who only care about making themselves appear intellectual.

no more ignorance. In Lamens terms; sit down, and shut up!. Follow McCain to his old, scraggly demise. If you don't care about Barack Obama than I do not care about you.

Yep, no arrogance or ignorance going on in Ricky's house! :roflmao:

D80

 

[jpccusa]

PLEEEEEASE, I hope not. Perhaps he'll take the time to research prior threads and get to know, by our writing, what most of us stand for.

Whereupon, I will - with my trademark civility, snark, and obscure references that will have him Googling, sweating, and wishing he could learn to proof his copy - dismantle him. :awcrap:

The pen IS mightier (insert your favorite Darrell Hammond reference here).


This kitty just found a new ball of yarn, and it's been a while since he's played.


Dale

Yes, it is a logical fallacy. Yes, it is called guilt by association.

But when it comes to irony vis-a-vis President Bush and the clergy, I prefer Kirbyjon Caldwell.

Who is Kirbyjon Caldwell, you ask?

Like Jeremiah Wright, Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell has led a "mega-church" in a major city - in this instance, Houston, not Chicago - matter of fact, Caldwell's Windsor United Methodist Church is the nation's largest United Methodist congregation. Caldwell, like Wright, just happens to be black.

Caldwell also understands the context of Wright's "G-D America" sermon, especially the Hebraic translation from Wright's claim that "it's in the Bible".

Reverend Caldwell also officiated the Jenna Bush wedding, and is considered a "spiritual advisor" to President Bush, having delivered the benedictions at both the 2000 and 2004 inaugurations.

And waaaay back in January - maybe even before the Iowa caucuses - Reverend Kirbyjon Caldwell officially endorsed Senator Barack Obama for President.

Now THAT'S irony you can believe in.

Dale

I strive to a day write as well as you do... Gosh you are good! :bowdown:
PS: I confess I had to consult my thesaurus for your posts.

 

[CassieK]

I just wanted to make one quick statement. There are thousands of Americans’ without jobs and thousands more are losing their jobs every day due to the economy. Fighting as a soldier in Iraq is a job (granted not the safest or the best considered by some but still a job). There are more than roughly 200,000 troops in Iraq. If Obama’s plan is to have them all back in 16 months by the summer of 2010, where are all these people going to work? Would this not make the economic problem even worse? It is also said that we have reached the brink of global warming. Saying that the problem will be solved in 10 years just isn’t going to do it. With only 4 years of presidency their doesn’t need to be any evidence that things are changing cause he wont be there to be responsible for what doesn’t happen. We are at a point that things need to be solved now thinking within the 4 year time period not just setting a goal and hoping some one else will pick up the slack. The ball needs to start rolling now so that it will have built up enough speed to keep going through the changing leaders. And unfortunately no one is going to park there car and wait for a miracle. Plans have to be made now to keep life livable for Americans while things are being done to change the way we live. I know Obama says that many jobs will be opened up for the research of alternative energy. The companies that are already struggle to do this are in dire need of people to fill up jobs, but no one has the education to be able to fill these spots. Most of these companies also require a BA in some type of related science. It takes more than 4 years to educate someone for this kind of stuff. Obama has great aspirations, hopes and dreams but they are just not something that he can feasible do in his time as president.

I do want to thank everyone on both sides for the information and for inspiring me to thoroughly go through each candidate’s issues. I had tried to avoid anything to do with the elections but it is time to buck up and take responsibility and to know when someone is handing me a plate of BS about a candidate. I am still learning

My sources were: http://www.barackobama.com/index.php
http://www.johnmccain.com/

 

[Nanci]

I don't enjoy discussing politics, but here is my contribution, a Palin joke:

Palin meets the Pope

Sarah Palin is invited to meet with the Pope while he is vacationing in Venice .

The liberal press reluctantly watches the semi-private audience, hoping they will be able to allot minimal coverage, if any.

The Pope asks Governor Palin to join him on a Gondola ride through the canals of Venice .

They're admiring the sights and agreeing on moral issues when, all of a
sudden, the Pope's hat (zucchetto) blows off his head and out into the water.

The gondolier starts to reach for the Pontiff's cap with his pole, but this
move threatens to overturn the floating craft.

Sarah waves the tour guide off, saying, 'Wait, wait. I'll take care of this. Don't worry.'

She steps off the gondola onto the surface of the water and walks out to
the Pope's hat, bends over and picks it up. She walks back across the water to
the gondola and steps aboard.

She hands the hat to the Pope amid stunned silence.

The next morning the topic of conversation among Democrats in Congress, CBS News, NBC News, ABC News, CNN, the New York Times, Hollywood celebrities, and in France and Germany is:

'Palin Can't Swim.'

 

[ForkedTung]

'Palin Can't Swim.'

but she can see Russia from her backyard :sidestep:

 

[Ricky87]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. As far as this goes, I'm done. I just don't feel the need to be called a "fool" by someone who hasn't lived but "half" my life! LOL! This is why I avoid these threads in the first place!!!!!

First off, "Age ain't nothin' but a number!", and second off, I never called you a fool, so if thats your game then so be it. As for being half your age, what do I care?. I've experienced more than you could ever imagine, so that doesn't phase me one bit. I did say I wasn't as careful as I should have been, but that propaganda video really set me off. No one should manipulate that much just to get a few "on the fence" people to vote McCain. The truth is I do my research, I take my time to elaborate, and I respect any opinion that isn't ignorant, manipulative, or condescending. If you still don't respect me, thats fine. I just hope you know that I am open minded, regardless of selective quoting, and I do not think you are a fool by any means. This is a political thread, and I feel obliged to express my political opinion. Maybe you don't want to hear a 23 year old speak, because you have preconcieved ideas of what someone my age may think, but I can't help that. Maybe I should just create a new profile and lie about my age next time!.

 

[Drizzt80]

First off, "Age ain't nothin' but a number!", and second off, I never called you a fool, so if thats your game then so be it. As for being half your age, what do I care?. I've experienced more than you could ever imagine, so that doesn't phase me one bit. I did say I wasn't as careful as I should have been, but that propaganda video really set me off. No one should manipulate that much just to get a few "on the fence" people to vote McCain. The truth is I do my research, I take my time to elaborate, and I respect any opinion that isn't ignorant, manipulative, or condescending. If you still don't respect me, thats fine. I just hope you know that I am open minded, regardless of selective quoting, and I do not think you are a fool by any means. This is a political thread, and I feel obliged to express my political opinion. Maybe you don't want to hear a 23 year old speak, because you have preconcieved ideas of what someone my age may think, but I can't help that. Maybe I should just create a new profile and lie about my age next time!.

At least your spelling has improved . . . :sidestep: But your arrogance is still showing . . . may wanna zip that up!

D80

 

[Ricky87]

Yep, no arrogance or ignorance going on in Ricky's house! :roflmao:

I'm glad to see you have so many emoticons and links to do your talking for you, but seeing as how none of those definitions ring true in the slightest, I'm just going to continue with my political views. My proclaimed "arrogance" (Offensive display of superiority or self-importance) is not out of my desire to get you to feel I'm superior, and is just of your slighted "opinion" (A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof), okay Webster, and "ignorance" (The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed) is something I despise, and do not possess, so don't feel "intimidated" (to overawe or cow, as through the force of personality or by superior display of wealth, talent, etc.), just because you don't agree with me. Ignorance happens to be the only threat to Barack Obama, and as for being un-informed, I've done my due diligence, and can speak with the upmost confidence. This whole thread is based on the premise that Obama's to blame for the economic crisis, and that he has Fanny Mae in his back pocket. You want info; here you go. Barack Obama's financial spending is a fraction of McCain's, and he has all of his spending for his "Grassroots" campaign available for anyone of the public to view. Can you tell me the same about John McCain?. NOPE, you can't. That's because John McCain is spending too much money, from way too many rich boosters. You still don't but it, than fine, but at least you have no excuse for being un-informed!.

 

[Nova_C]

Ricky, you said:

I respect any opinion that isn't ignorant, manipulative, or condescending.

You must not respect your own words because your posts have been the most ignorant and condescending in this thread by far. You judge without restraint anyone who would vote McCain as ignorant:

This whole "NOBAMA" stuff is ridiculous, and it's sad a 23 year old knows more about honesty, integrity, politics, and leadership, than any of you McCain supporters.

Honestly, you're part of the problem of vicious partisanship. No one has a monopoly on 'right' and just because you have placed almost religious fanatical faith in a man doesn't make you right.

 

[Ricky87]

Ricky, you said:



You must not respect your own words because your posts have been the most ignorant and condescending in this thread by far. You judge without restraint anyone who would vote McCain as ignorant:



Honestly, you're part of the problem of vicious partisanship. No one has a monopoly on 'right' and just because you have placed almost religious fanatical faith in a man doesn't make you right.

Enough with the personal attacks on MY integrity. Maybe you aren't up to the level of developing YOUR opinion. I am not condescending at all, and the most polite people in this thread have been courteous enough to give me rep, which isn't why I'm doing this obviously, but I do appreciate it. And yes, I do judge SOME McCain voters, because their fine voting in a president for me who doesn't care about my views, so thats grounds for my opinion. I post with all sorts of people on other sites who don't like Obama, but I respect them, because their points are valid. This post, however, is based on a youtube video that is straight propaganda. Maybe you haven't seen it, or maybe you agree with it, but either way it's false. I do respect everyones opinions, but my allegiance is with Obama. Not, because I'm an "Evangelist", because thats just ridiculous. I just won't stand by and let the "Yay McCain" chants go around the block. He's a liar, and he just wants to bomb everyone. That deserves back-lash, and truth, and defiance. Anyway, agree or dis-agree, it's what I feel is true, and if it truly offends you I am sorry, but if you just want to put me down than why should I care about you?. I called no-one here a fool, yet I've been called "ignorant", "arrogant", "condescending", you name it!. I take it like a grain of salt, because the people who diss me don't care that much anyways, but the people who do care will feel glad that someone is putting in the raw truth about the real situation. You'll probably shrug this off and criticize some more, but may I suggest forming your own opinion instead of trying to dis-credit mine?.

 

[Ricky87]

By the way, Nova C, your avatar says it all. Nice try with your "objectivity". Thats exactly what I'm criticizing, so maybe you want to check yourself!.

 

[Nova_C]

By the way, Nova C, your avatar says it all. Nice try with your "objectivity". Thats exactly what I'm criticizing, so maybe you want to check yourself!.

My avatar? Huh?

Anyway, you lumped together all McCain supporters in your posts. All of them. Now that you're being called on it you're backtracking. You discredit my posts as uninformed and biased when you say:

[McCain is] a liar, and he just wants to bomb everyone.

That's patently ridiculous. You've made a caricature of McCain in your head to support the extremity of your views. It's not based on reality at all.

 

[Drizzt80]

yet I've been called "ignorant", "arrogant", "condescending", you name it!.

I didn't call YOU any of those words. YOU, on the other hand, have very specifically called many of the people in this thread those exact words. YOUR behavior belies your words. I'll give you this much, you're a spunky little democrat.

D80

PS. I threw that emoticon in just for you! (There's another one.)