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Controversial topic?

I have Danielle... and will continue to do so if I feel they are not capable of providing the best care possible for that animal. I only tend to sell to local people that I have formed an acquaintance with through reptiles. My gecko went to the most wonderful couple ever and I get lots of regular updates. They adore her. I have sold and given snakes to close friends too, of course I know they are in the best places possible.
 
I have bought more than a few that I no longer have here. I can think of three species I once had and don't anymore - KSB, Durango Kings, and Cali Kings. And now I have an MBK. I have had a few corns come and go also.
However, I was broke, broke, broke last year. I really needed to do something to make ends meet and I did not want to give up my favorite corns. Sadly it ended up being a thing where I ranked my snakes in order of what it would hurt the least to sell and what I could make a little money to live on. Now that I am working again, I still have the corns I really love the most and do not regret selling the others as much as I would have regretted selling one from my core ghost group.
The "keeping up with the Jones" people get on my nerves a lot more than those who sell out of necessity or because of an illness in the family or something. There are sometimes some posts with "new acquisition, $$$ rack or $$$ snake" (I made up the title obviously but you get what I'm saying right?) that to me are just a way of saying "look how much money I have".
I guess I should not judge either way, but money doesn't make you a better herper OR person.
 
Thank you just wanted to know I wasn't the only one, lol!! This guy killed his first gecko breeding her at 25 grams and when told to take to her to a vet because she was most likely egg bound he refused citing expense. Anyone who refuses to take an animal to the vet when it is obvious they need to citing money can not afford to own animals IMO and I am not rich by any means but have borrowed money more than once to ensure the care of an animal no matter how broke I was. Then he said 25 grams was plenty big and still thinks this wasn't the cause of her death even though the vet said the same thing. So now he wants a few of mine and I said no because I questioned his care and understanding of the needs of the species nicely mind you, but at least was honest and he sent me the nastiest e-mail ever- kinda funny. However, I wondered if it was just me I feel a little better now!
 
Absolutly Jen! Needs must and all that. I am one of these people that does struggle financially. I only work 20 hours a week as well as doing my degree in mental health nursing. But the first thing I would do if I needed cash to live would be to give up my other vices such as smoking, drinking and socialising before I gave up my animals. I would also sell all my crap on ebay LOL. I managed to buy Devil Worm because I had over £100 sitting in paypal from selling things on ebay, things I just didn't need.

But like you say, there are some people who buy snakes just because they can. I have had to work my butt off to save for every purchase I have made (because I refuse to own credit cards or take out bank loans, ESPECIALLY for snakes of all things), and I have spent silly money on snakes. The opposite of all this is people who buy snakes because they are only £10 - £20. I don't think cost should be a factor in owning what you want but it most certainly is. I would LOVE to own a boelens, but I just don't have 2 grand to splash out on one single snake. Although if I set my mind to it I could save for a year or so and go for it. Could I justify that kind of money on one snake even if I had it? Now that is the question...
 
I think it really only bothers me when a person treats the animals like Pokemon cards. Buying one because it is the new thing, then trading it to get the next new thing. It just seems callous to me.
 
I agree Jen, but if the animal is well cared for at every stop, why should it matter? (It bugs me too btw, just throwing out the question ;) )
 
danielle said:
Heres another question. Have any of you refused to sell an animal to someone based on their buying and selling habits or their experience with the animal? I have and am currently getting flack which I could care less about, but I just refused a customer who is new to cresteds and keeps them in ways I disagree with wanting to breed for reasons I feel are wrong. Just curious if anyone else has ever said no to someone.
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I worked at Petsmart as a teenager and refused to sell a guinea pig to people who were buying a 14" x 8" hamster cage (the kind with the upper level and cheap plastic wheel?) for it to live in. They demanded to speak to a manager and my specialty manager was not in that day so they sent the store manager over. The people told him that they had a guinea pig cage at home-- the hamster cage would just be for traveling to and from the vets-- (after they told me they'd be keeping the guinea pig IN that cage permanently) and he sold them the guinea pig.

I only worked there about a month after this incident. It completely broke me.

I have flat out told people on my fish forum "If you do this the way you have planned, you will kill your fish." I usually try to be diplomatic as a moderator, but there are times where bluntness is necessary.

In any case, I too agree that it fundamentally bothers me when people trade animals like Pokemon cards... but there have been times when my husbandry was less than perfect as well....
 
Tula_Montage said:
I agree Jen, but if the animal is well cared for at every stop, why should it matter? (It bugs me too btw, just throwing out the question ;) )
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I understand the question, but don't know how to answer it. I guess the answer is, it may not matter to anyone else, but it matters to me because they are a living creature. I proscribe to the belief that we should be responsible for the lives we take into our care and taking on an animal as a "status symbol" just seems just a little immoral.

Then again, I also believe it's not our right to judge others without knowing their situation and as long as they're not hurting another living being I've no right to get on my soapbox and tell them how to live to my standards.

I've never lectured someone who does this, I just don't agree with it personally.

Does the answer make sense?
 
Tula_Montage said:
I agree Jen, but if the animal is well cared for at every stop, why should it matter? (It bugs me too btw, just throwing out the question ;) )
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Yes but if this were dogs or cats peoples reactions would be different.
If i bought a dog and had it for a month and then sold to someone else and afterwards buy 3 more dogs and keep on doing this down the line. People would be screaming for Blood if we did this to our a cute fuzzy wuzzy critters. But since its reptiles, we have a different look and perspective in keeping them.

When you get a pet, you should plan to keep it till the end of its natural lifespan of the animal.
I am not talking breeding animals or breeders, I understand this is what you attend to do with your animals. This part of your plan to keep, breed and sell. But there are those who get animals and just get bored with it and get rid of it.
 
I agree with you Jimmy, I really really do! I am just looking at it from an outside perspective ie people who view reptiles as pets that don't bond with the owner and therefore don't care who their owner is. I am a soppy pet owner who is stupidly bonded with each of my snakes, of course though, some more than others. They are my babies which I feel completely responsible for and intend to keep them until they die, unless of course the future holds something sinister which would leave me no choice but to give them up.
 
tricksterpup said:
Yes but if this were dogs or cats peoples reactions would be different.
If i bought a dog and had it for a month and then sold to someone else and afterwards buy 3 more dogs and keep on doing this down the line. People would be screaming for Blood if we did this to our a cute fuzzy wuzzy critters. But since its reptiles, we have a different look and perspective in keeping them.

When you get a pet, you should plan to keep it till the end of its natural lifespan of the animal.
I am not talking breeding animals or breeders, I understand this is what you attend to do with your animals. This part of your plan to keep, breed and sell. But there are those who get animals and just get bored with it and get rid of it.
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When I got my first corns, I knew my sister's neighbour had one over 20 years old. So I knew what I was in for. Without major life changes which would prevent it I intend to keep my corns all their lives. I don't regard my attitude as any better than others, I don't for a moment think it matters to the snakes, but it matters to me.
 
I agree people would be more up in arms about a dog or cat, but they also are able to form emotional attachments where as much as we would like to believe our reptiles can they don't. I know people who are completely against the breeding and selling anything, but for me it is about the care the animal gets more than anything. Hey I got a corn because my daughter has begged for a snake since she was two. I had experience with boas and pythons, but not corns. However, I did a lot of research and then asked a ton of questions before my recent purchase and still ask silly questions if I am in doubt. If an owner owns an animal and cares for the animal properly thats the most important thing- if the owner buys more because they enjoy the animal that much and cares for that animal as well thats fine too. It's when people go out and buy a bunch of animals without planning for future expenses that peeves me. Jaxson has already had a vet visit to rule out worms and parasites, needed tube feedings of nutribac, and will always have his care needs paid for. However, if tomorrow I lost everything and had no money to care for him I would sell him in a heartbeat no matter how much i would miss him to make sure he had what he needed.
 
"...Yes but if this were dogs or cats peoples reactions would be different. .."

Yes - and I be more upset as well. I just personally believe that a cat or dog (or bird) has the ability to form more of a bond with an owner than most reptiles, especially snakes. I believe that there is a certain amount of stress involved in a snake moving to a new home. But I believe that it is more because of the change in environment than the bonding with an owner, and that the stress will be very short lived if the snake's needs are provided for. But I believe that cats, dogs, and birds can be extremely bonded to their owner, and that there is a certain kind of grieving when a change takes place. That makes it more stressful for them, in my opinion.

Of course, that is only my opinion based on a lot of observation. I don't believe there is a way to totally prove it one way or the other.
 
"...I don't regard my attitude as any better than others, I don't for a moment think it matters to the snakes, but it matters to me..."

EXACTLY! As long as you realize that it is for your benefit that you are keeping them "forever", and not necessarily for only their benefit, then I think you can keep it all in perspective.
 
tricksterpup said:
Yes but if this were dogs or cats peoples reactions would be different.
If i bought a dog and had it for a month and then sold to someone else
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diamondlil said:
When I got my first corns, I knew my sister's neighbour had one over 20 years old. So I knew what I was in for. Without major life changes which would prevent it I intend to keep my corns all their lives. I don't regard my attitude as any better than others, I don't for a moment think it matters to the snakes, but it matters to me.
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kathylove said:
"...Yes but if this were dogs or cats peoples reactions would be different. .."

Yes - and I be more upset as well. I just personally believe that a cat or dog (or bird) has the ability to form more of a bond with an owner than most reptiles, especially snakes.
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Whew, this thread is getting deep...LOL. And being a shallow sort of guy I feel a bit out of my depth..... LOL
But I picked out these three threads to answer, sort of.
As some of you know I have bred Bull Terriers.....Thats a hard call for me when it comes time to sell the puppies on.... It's not so much they form a bond with me, but I bond to them and believe that no one can give them the home that I can.... I struggle to sell them and vet the owners first... Luckily I have more buyers than dogs, but I still find it hard to let them go....
Which brings me to J9's post.... I can't get rid of any of our snakes....Some do not fit in with any projects, but I will find them a partner, as I would like to think if someone had me as a specimen they wouldn't let me die a virgin.... I did plan on shifting a few to make way for my main interest, I just couldn't do it when the time came......
 
snakewispera snr said:
Whew, this thread is getting deep...LOL. And being a shallow sort of guy I feel a bit out of my depth..... LOL
But I picked out these three threads to answer, sort of.
As some of you know I have bred Bull Terriers.....Thats a hard call for me when it comes time to sell the puppies on.... It's not so much they form a bond with me, but I bond to them and believe that no one can give them the home that I can.... I struggle to sell them and vet the owners first... Luckily I have more buyers than dogs, but I still find it hard to let them go....
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That's interesting, but a lot of dog breeders see nothing wrong with selling on ex-brood bitches or 'keeper' pups that don't quite reach the potential they'd hoped for.
So maybe the difference is just how soft-hearted any animal-keeper is, not what the animal is! My sister bred her two Parsons Jack Russells last year and felt totally traumatised by selling the pups
 
diamondlil said:
That's interesting, but a lot of dog breeders see nothing wrong with selling on ex-brood bitches or 'keeper' pups that don't quite reach the potential they'd hoped for.
So maybe the difference is just how soft-hearted any animal-keeper is, not what the animal is! My sister bred her two Parsons Jack Russells last year and felt totally traumatised by selling the pups
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God I can sympathise with her.... Puppies are the best cute thing in the world, 10 puppies are the best cute thing in the world x 10.
10 puppies that you have bred your self from a trusted sire and dam that are loved family pets, and you help create them in miniature.Then grow them on for 8 or so weeks, staying awake 24/7, living in the dog bed with them.... for two weeks, as the dogs will kill new born puppies.... (They are crap parents... I hate my dogs for a few weeks after puppies, they are hateful killing machines) ..... ******** Priceless.....
I hate selling on the puppies... Well anything really.... I end up with hold backs all the time... Even puppies.... I hide the ones I like so no one ever gets chance to pick them, and I can justify keeping them as they didn't get picked...... Thats how I ended up with Georgia......
GEORGIA
megngeorge-1-3.jpg

 
:-offtopic Awwwwwwwwwww! I love bullys! Nigel's was a total softy. Erm, anyway, back to snakes............
 
I got Jazz first because I've always wanted a snake since my sister first got hers, and butter was my favorite morph at the time. it took me two years to get a butter after I first decided that was what I wanted, because my dad really didnt want one. I finally got him to give in, so I got Jazzy boy. and I admit that after that, I kind of caught the snakie bug. I wanted to have that and that and that, but it wasnt just to show them off. I just WANTED them to have them, because they were awesome. If I hadnt found this forum, I dont think I would have as many, because I fell in love with Bairdis because of the forum. I would still have my corns and bps and boa. its more that I FOUND more snakes I wanted from here, not that I got them just to show off. everything I bought was because I loved the snake itself and wanted it.
 
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