mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
So according to your link, a cop is nearly 3 times as likely to die at work than the average worker, how does that help your argument.
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The Largest Street Gang in America
- Thread starter Nova_C
- Start date
So according to your link, a cop is nearly 3 times as likely to die at work than the average worker, how does that help your argument.
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
The last part of that statement, great.
Nova_C
New member
Because of the nature of the deaths.
Half of the cops that are killed on the job die in the same traffic accidents everyone else can die in. The fact that they die a lot less than other professions that spend their time driving around (Truck driver and cabbie) is telling. In other words, if you want a job where you drive around a bunch, being a cop is the safest job.
When it comes to deaths at the hands of criminals, that number is only 50% higher than average. These cops are called to deal with criminals all the time, right? In constant danger, putting their lives on the line, standing between innocent people and dangerous criminals, etc...but they only die on the job a little bit more than the guy sitting at his desk all day. This is not the picture being painted by police apologists.
We give these people military training and equipment, then provide them with carte blanche to torture people, all in the name of keeping them safe. But being a cop is not all that dangerous and the data supports that. Like I said, being a cop is about the safest job you can have and spend a lot of time on the road.
The_Thunderer
New member
I've given too much rep in the last 24 hours... So I'll have to keep this post in mind...
Also, want to say, "THANK YOU" for your service and sacrifice as an LEO. I know it doesn't mean much, but I sincerely do appreciate it.
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
I heard an analogy earlier today, "like a restaurant with roaches". You will not get it, and neither will many others, but if you know what I am talking about, it seems to fit.
There is nothing that can be said to convince you of other than an argument that was born in the 60s and holds as little or even less water now, as it did then. Good bye.
There is nothing that can be said to convince you of other than an argument that was born in the 60s and holds as little or even less water now, as it did then. Good bye.
Nova_C
New member
Seeing as I'm the only person actually posting numbers instead of excusing the abuses committed by cops, I would welcome a serious attempt to prove me wrong.
So far I've seen nothing but rhetoric. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Cflaguy, as a cop, have you done anything to promote the removal of the so called 'blue wall of silence'? Have you investigated and testified against any fellow police officers? What is your department doing to prevent the kinds of abuses and intimidation tactics recorded in the video I linked?
Honestly, I spent years defending cops. My dad worked as a volunteer peace officer for a while, spent a lot of time working with cops as a fire chief so I know, personally, a lot of cops. All good guys that I would have a beer with. But none of them would do anything about fellow cops abusing their authority. None of them would stick up for a citizen being assaulted by another officer. Good people, bad cops. There is a difference and they are not mutually exclusive. If you can show me that things are changing for the better I will take it all back.
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
Anyone remember the song by Greenday, American Idiot?
It is really coming true!
The media controls our feelings and perceptions more than we realize.
The media tells us what to think, and I am totally convinced the media chose our latest President.
Sex sells, tragedy sells, police brutality sells, rape sells....
If you have a sensational headline, and can slant the other news the way you want, why waste time on rainbows and puppies?
It is really coming true!
The media controls our feelings and perceptions more than we realize.
The media tells us what to think, and I am totally convinced the media chose our latest President.
Sex sells, tragedy sells, police brutality sells, rape sells....
If you have a sensational headline, and can slant the other news the way you want, why waste time on rainbows and puppies?
Nova_C
New member
So prove me wrong. Why is that so hard? If this is all media hype, the numbers should not bear me out at all. Show me that cops are trustworthy, that when cops do bad things to people they are held accountable, that if you're unlucky enough to draw the murderer with a badge that every other cop within 100 miles won't cover for him.
Please, because I don't want to fear what might happen if I end up interacting with a police officer who is in a bad mood.
Please, because I don't want to fear what might happen if I end up interacting with a police officer who is in a bad mood.
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
Fear what you want. If you care to go through life fearful be my guest. I have no numbers, no "proof", just my experiance. Being a business owner in a small town, I have interacted with the local police a few times. And everytime has been a positive experiance. I feel no fear AT ALL.
How many positive stories about the police have the media buried?
jenneses
Confuzzled
I seem to remember a few news stories lately about cops being suspended and being indicted for crimes; this seems to suggest to me the fact that something is being done about "corrupt cops." I think we all need to remember that the police are human, just like everyone of us...
Sometimes we do things we regret; like not standing up for someone or preventing a bad situation. I know that not all cops are bad, just like I know that not all people are good. In every job, position, race, nationality, religion, etc there are good people and bad people and it is wrong to condemn all for the sins of a few.
Sometimes we do things we regret; like not standing up for someone or preventing a bad situation. I know that not all cops are bad, just like I know that not all people are good. In every job, position, race, nationality, religion, etc there are good people and bad people and it is wrong to condemn all for the sins of a few.
The_Thunderer
New member
Nova_C... if it's as bad as you say it is, you're still young enough to either run for political office and make changes OR become an LEO yourself and make the changes you deem necessary. Go ahead! When you become an LEO, I'll be in line to thank you for your service.
How easy it is for you and others to condemn and berate brave men and women while sitting at a computer. If you feel so strongly... go and make a difference.
Nova_C, Ricky87... have a nice day! Hopefully you won't have to call a policeman or policewoman for anything...
How easy it is for you and others to condemn and berate brave men and women while sitting at a computer. If you feel so strongly... go and make a difference.
I'm with you... no sense hanging around here. His mind is made up...
I'm with you 100% on this, Bethany (and Robbie). But I've given out too many rep points. Have to catch you later! LOL.
Nova_C, Ricky87... have a nice day! Hopefully you won't have to call a policeman or policewoman for anything...
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
I have had very little interaction with the police...
other than the usual traffic stops, which have been uneventful.
The one major time I had to deal with the police was with the Ft. Myers City Police Dept. My truck was broken into at a shopping plaza, and my bank bag (no money, just papers) was stolen, along with a canvas bag with 10 baby bearded dragons that I was transporting to a friend.
The volunteers who ride in police cars and take reports came right away to take down the info. That might have been the end of it, but I decided to do some detective work, and called all of the pet shops in the area to warn them, in case somebody tried to sell the dragons. One pet shop manager called me back, saying somebody was on their way to sell them the dragons. And it so happened that a plaza store employee had seen the break in, and he got a partial license plate on the car the thief drove - it matched the name of the person who wanted to sell the dragons (smart thief - used his own name!).
The detective assigned to the case set up a sting operation, with the two of us in the back room of the shop, and a few other plain clothes officers in the mall. The guy never showed, and I left after a while. But by the time I got home, there was a message that the thief arrived, the cop chased him through the shop, knocking over a big aquarium, and I got my lizards back.
I was pretty impressed at all they went through to get my little lizards!
An added bonus was that I got a call from the Lee County Sheriff's Office the next day. Somebody called in to them that a burning bag was dumped on their driveway. They stamped it out, and called the sheriff dept., since it was not in the city limits. It was found to be my bank bag, so I was called to pick it up. Some of the papers were partially burned, but still usable.
All in all, I was pretty impressed, even though the thief got only probation. But of course, that is the justice dept., not the police.
That mostly sums up my experience with police. However, various fish and wildlife officers I have met over the years, or have heard direct experiences with from other people, seem, on average, much more "power happy" and less helpful, than the police and sheriff's deputies I have met.
other than the usual traffic stops, which have been uneventful.
The one major time I had to deal with the police was with the Ft. Myers City Police Dept. My truck was broken into at a shopping plaza, and my bank bag (no money, just papers) was stolen, along with a canvas bag with 10 baby bearded dragons that I was transporting to a friend.
The volunteers who ride in police cars and take reports came right away to take down the info. That might have been the end of it, but I decided to do some detective work, and called all of the pet shops in the area to warn them, in case somebody tried to sell the dragons. One pet shop manager called me back, saying somebody was on their way to sell them the dragons. And it so happened that a plaza store employee had seen the break in, and he got a partial license plate on the car the thief drove - it matched the name of the person who wanted to sell the dragons (smart thief - used his own name!).
The detective assigned to the case set up a sting operation, with the two of us in the back room of the shop, and a few other plain clothes officers in the mall. The guy never showed, and I left after a while. But by the time I got home, there was a message that the thief arrived, the cop chased him through the shop, knocking over a big aquarium, and I got my lizards back.
I was pretty impressed at all they went through to get my little lizards!
An added bonus was that I got a call from the Lee County Sheriff's Office the next day. Somebody called in to them that a burning bag was dumped on their driveway. They stamped it out, and called the sheriff dept., since it was not in the city limits. It was found to be my bank bag, so I was called to pick it up. Some of the papers were partially burned, but still usable.
All in all, I was pretty impressed, even though the thief got only probation. But of course, that is the justice dept., not the police.
That mostly sums up my experience with police. However, various fish and wildlife officers I have met over the years, or have heard direct experiences with from other people, seem, on average, much more "power happy" and less helpful, than the police and sheriff's deputies I have met.
Nova_C
New member
Run for office? Become an LEO? Those are the only two ways to effect change?
What I'm doing right now is part of the path to change. Raising awareness. Most of you may be fine with the current state of things, but many are not. And many more would not be if they were more aware. So bringing this to this board's attention is one of the things that I can do to effect change.
And if you'd bother to read my posts, you'd realize that I am prepared to take it all back, just like I said, if someone can show me that things are changing for the better. So far you'd all rather simply dismiss me as 'ignorant' (Cflaguy), or hypocritical (Thunderer, not said but implied), and more than one person questioning my integrity and my intelligence. The closest anyone has come to trying was Jen, who was vague.
And yet you say "Well, you won't be convinced no matter what we say!" I take offense to that. How about someone take it seriously for a change instead of excusing the bad cops. Because really, that's what you're doing. You excuse the bad behavior because they're cops. Because they do a dangerous job. Because they're so honorable.
Well, maybe you're right. Maybe I never will understand because I don't see cops as being elite, as being better, as being above the law. I see them as human beings, with all the good and bad therein. I see them as being regular people put into tough situations.
And I also see them getting away with murder, torture, kidnapping, assault, theft. That's where cops are different than anybody else.
What I'm doing right now is part of the path to change. Raising awareness. Most of you may be fine with the current state of things, but many are not. And many more would not be if they were more aware. So bringing this to this board's attention is one of the things that I can do to effect change.
And if you'd bother to read my posts, you'd realize that I am prepared to take it all back, just like I said, if someone can show me that things are changing for the better. So far you'd all rather simply dismiss me as 'ignorant' (Cflaguy), or hypocritical (Thunderer, not said but implied), and more than one person questioning my integrity and my intelligence. The closest anyone has come to trying was Jen, who was vague.
And yet you say "Well, you won't be convinced no matter what we say!" I take offense to that. How about someone take it seriously for a change instead of excusing the bad cops. Because really, that's what you're doing. You excuse the bad behavior because they're cops. Because they do a dangerous job. Because they're so honorable.
Well, maybe you're right. Maybe I never will understand because I don't see cops as being elite, as being better, as being above the law. I see them as human beings, with all the good and bad therein. I see them as being regular people put into tough situations.
And I also see them getting away with murder, torture, kidnapping, assault, theft. That's where cops are different than anybody else.
Ricky87
New member
The police force is totally different from the regular work force. They get equipped with badges, guns, tasers, and a book that they can use to turn every situation to there favor. No one regulates them, and they know it. Even a known racist from my high-school become a cop just like that, and now he has a full force behind him every time he wants to flex his power. How come they aren't held to a higher standard?. Their not royalty, and they don't need to be adored. My level of respect is based on who they are as people, and as officers I have no need to idolize them or support them. Their job is to serve and protect, and those that limit themselves to those principles are heroes no doubt about it. However, until racial profiling stops, and until they get the same criminal punishment as civilians do I will not trust them.
tstephe3
Wanna pet my Snake?
Well, I've never had problems..
I think if you don't do anything wrong you won't have to deal with the cops. So, I guess thats my opinion.
The other thing is, I did not watch the video, in a hurry, but sometimes (not all the time) I believe people that do horrible things, like murder a child, rape etc.. Almost deserve that treatment. Instead of just sitting in a jail cell laughing that they didn't get the death sentence or anything. So, if I was a police officer, and someone did something that bad.. And the person is crazy laughing about it or has no remorse blah blah blah.. I'd beat the out of them. Who cares, in my opiinion they deserve it.
But, thats not everyone and obviously it shouldn't be done.. I'm sure thats what happens in some cases.
Figured I'd throw that in there.
I think if you don't do anything wrong you won't have to deal with the cops. So, I guess thats my opinion.
The other thing is, I did not watch the video, in a hurry, but sometimes (not all the time) I believe people that do horrible things, like murder a child, rape etc.. Almost deserve that treatment. Instead of just sitting in a jail cell laughing that they didn't get the death sentence or anything. So, if I was a police officer, and someone did something that bad.. And the person is crazy laughing about it or has no remorse blah blah blah.. I'd beat the out of them. Who cares, in my opiinion they deserve it.
But, thats not everyone and obviously it shouldn't be done.. I'm sure thats what happens in some cases.
Figured I'd throw that in there.
jenneses
Confuzzled
Can you tell me what additional information you would like?
Maybe it's different for the police forces in my area, but my cousin who is on the NYPD had to have a bachelor's degree to get into the police academy (where he completed coursework equivalent to an additional associates degree) had to take psychological testing, a lie detector test as well a physical assessment. In addition to all of that, he could not have any serious criminal offenses in his past. That's a little different in my eyes to a lot of other positions or careers that I know of. I'm also not saying he's a good cop, I don't know if he is; but I do know that he's a good man and father.
I don't idolize anyone from any profession, but anyone who is willing to risk their life for me or my freedoms automatically is going to get my respect. Actually, I respect most people until there is a reason not to, but that is just the way I live my life.
Racial profiling doesn't always mean abuse of power and cops can and do get punished for crimes, just like ordinary citizens.
Nova_C
New member
I'm pretty sure that most of the people in that video had committed no crime. The ones that stick out in my mind are the girl who was assaulted and her husband called the police. The police show up, the injured woman is lying on the ground and they arrest her, take her to the station, strip her naked, with male cops being the last ones in the room with her while she was naked, and leave her naked and uncovered and alone in a cell for several hours. There was also the man who had been in some kind of car accident, his car had caught fire and he was severely injured and burned. The cops arrive and are so afraid of getting any blood on themselves that they shoot the man dead. There's also the 200 people sitting in a park who were all arrested for no reason whatsoever. Watch the video.
Jen, do you have any links to the cases you mentioned? Can you remember what they were indicted for?
jenneses
Confuzzled
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/blog/2009/04/cop_indicted.html
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=428&sid=1205849
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=304071&src=143
http://www.connpost.com/ci_13046152?IADID=Search-www.connpost.com-www.connpost.com
http://gothamist.com/2009/04/27/cops_indicted_on_charges_of_raping_1.php
http://www.cbs6albany.com/articles/charges-1265442-cop-criminal.html
http://www.seguingazette.com/story.lasso?ewcd=89650fb7ad712d5b
My google doesn't work on this computer, but here are some I found using Bing (which totally sux as a search engine). There have been more, as only one of these was one I had read recently, but I remember one for corruption (in CT, I believe), one for selling drugs (in NY), and something on the news about a cop down south somewhere being arrested for assault (but can't remember specifics.)
Nova_C
New member
Thank you, Jen.
The first one has the officer being suspended for five years with pay while the case was ongoing. We should all be so lucky. Not sure how it's turned out.
I do like that second one. Turns out he was convicted and sentenced to 45 years. Definitely a step in the right direction.
The rest are ongoing, but they are encouraging. I'm watching the BART shooting case to see how it turns out as well. One thing I didn't know - there is a law that a police officer cannot be suspended without pay longer than 60 days. Hmm.
What I'd like to see are cops that participate in cover ups also being charged with crimes. I will say that those examples you gave, Jen, are the one thing no one else in this thread wanted to provide. Thanks.