Our brilliant government is at it again...ban pythons in Florida...

[kathylove]

Obviously, our lawmakers and governor must not have any significant problems to worry about these days - looks like they have too much time on their hands. The governor wants to throw away all of the work and expense that went into developing our Reptiles of Concern law (it requires a $100 annual permits, microchipping, and other requirements to keep the biggest pythons, anaconda, and Nile monitor), and just go ahead and ban them anyway. I guess he wants to make the humaniac groups happy, and to look good in the newspaper. What a waste of time and money during a time of economic turmoil!

Here is the email from US ARK. You can comment even if you don't live in Florida. Make no mistake - this inroad will set a precedent for the AR groups to wage war in other states. And once pythons are gone, they can turn their eyes towards the rest of us. Join US ARK, if you haven't already. And send an email via their link. I even added a paragraph of my own at the beginning, and it took only a couple of minutes. Don't delay!

EMAIL FROM US ARK:

Stop Florida Reptile Ban Now!

The Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) will meet September 9th, 10th and 11th. On the agenda will be Reptiles of Concern and whether to ban them administratively this year. Please don't let this happen! What happens in Florida will have repercussions across the country. We need everyone to weigh in on this and send an email to the FWC Commissioners. Even if you are not a Florida resident you can sign the letter as a potential stakeholder. The Humane Society of the United States has been mischaracterizing the issue and spreading inaccurate statistics. The Reptile Nation needs to be heard from coast to coast on this important debate.
USARK President, Andrew Wyatt will be traveling to Florida to attend the meeting. Let the FWC hear the voice of the Reptile Nation prior to his arrival. We have a very good argument to make, but it will be much more convincing if we get a big email push from the Nation. Just follow the link below to our instant email tool. It is as easy as filling in your info and pushing the submit button. Do it now!
Click here to email FWC and Gov Crist
http://usark.org/campaign.php?id=8

This is a public meeting. We urge all Florida residents and stakeholders to come to the meeting and express your concerns. Our issues are on the agenda for the afternoon of the 9th.
Time: 8:30 a.m.
Date: September 9-11, 2009
Place: Mission Inn
10400 County Road 48
Howey-in-the-Hills, FL 34737
Phone: (352) 324-3101
Fax: (352) 324-2636
Website: http://www.missioninnresort.com/

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Would it be BAD to show up holding a friends 10' burm? Thought so.
Nixing that idea. I'll try my damnedest to be there, because it's only about an hour and a half away.

 

[kathylove]

We are going out to the Anaheim show, so will be out of state. But I did send off my email.

 

[CrazyCorn]

If FWC is holding a meeting on it good luck changing their minds, they had a huge anti change gathering at the Snook meeting and they still decided to shorten the legal size limit. I wish I had the ability to attend but I am busy with my move.

 

[kathylove]

I have a feeling that FWC doesn't really want the ban, or at least a lot of the top guys probably don't. They already spent a lot of time on ROC. They probably thought it was over and done with. But they are being pressured by the governor. And since politics and spin are much more important than reality and logic, and since the governor obviously considers himself a professional biologist who knows best...they should just do what he wants them to do.

 

[waldo]

I've been kinda following the proposed python bans over the last few months and there is something I want to ask people who are opposed.
Are you opposed because you are looking at loosing money on breeding or because you don't like the government telling you what to do?
This might make me hated but I'm all for the bans. There are already so many unwanted giant snakes in the states, why should we have the right to breed/import more? Sometimes reptile breeders really upset me, do you honestly think all the thousands of snakes/lizards that are being bred every year will end up in responsible homes? DO you even give a damn about the animals or are you just pissed about "being controled"

 

[kathylove]

I do not keep or breed any of the snakes being proposed for the ban, and I don't have the intention to ever do so in the future. But I do not feel that some elite government employee should decide whether or not every single person in the country has the ability to properly keep one of these pythons. Yes, some rules and permits are necessary to live in a civilized society, but don't give up freedoms unless you (or society) is getting something VERY IMPORTANT in return. Besides - blanket bans generally don't work well. Just study Prohibition to see the likely result - very similar to the War on Drugs - what a great success!

If you feel that most of the lizards, snakes, etc (why stop there - add cats, dogs, rabbits, tropical fish, and any other animal) will not get proper homes, then why not ban all of them? Actually, that is exactly what the HSUS, PETA, and the other humaniac groups want. And they have A LOT of money and power to influence Congress to do just that. Whenever we delegate more power to the government, who will decide just how far it goes?

If the government is going to stop abuse and neglect, perhaps we should look into permits for having children - so many are unwanted and abused that it would be wonderful if prospective parents were pre-screened to avoid such tragedies. And it is far more important to protect kids than snakes. Yes, that might sound absurd - for now. Be careful what you wish for - whatever project is taken on by government, especially such a large government as our U.S. Federal government, tends to grow in size, cost, and authority as time goes on. I am only willing to give up ANY freedom if I can see a real necessity for it - not just because it gives some politician some good photo opportunities while making headlines for himself.

 

[snakemom1961]

I do not keep or breed any of the snakes being proposed for the ban, and I don't have the intention to ever do so in the future. But I do not feel that some elite government employee should decide whether or not every single person in the country has the ability to properly keep one of these pythons. Yes, some rules and permits are necessary to live in a civilized society, but don't give up freedoms unless you (or society) is getting something VERY IMPORTANT in return. Besides - blanket bans generally don't work well. Just study Prohibition to see the likely result - very similar to the War on Drugs - what a great success!

If you feel that most of the lizards, snakes, etc (why stop there - add cats, dogs, rabbits, tropical fish, and any other animal) will not get proper homes, then why not ban all of them? Actually, that is exactly what the HSUS, PETA, and the other humaniac groups want. And they have A LOT of money and power to influence Congress to do just that. Whenever we delegate more power to the government, who will decide just how far it goes?

If the government is going to stop abuse and neglect, perhaps we should look into permits for having children - so many are unwanted and abused that it would be wonderful if prospective parents were pre-screened to avoid such tragedies. And it is far more important to protect kids than snakes. Yes, that might sound absurd - for now. Be careful what you wish for - whatever project is taken on by government, especially such a large government as our U.S. Federal government, tends to grow in size, cost, and authority as time goes on. I am only willing to give up ANY freedom if I can see a real necessity for it - not just because it gives some politician some good photo opportunities while making headlines for himself.

You stated so eloquently what I was wanting to say.

 

[Criosphynx]

I've been kinda following the proposed python bans over the last few months and there is something I want to ask people who are opposed.
Are you opposed because you are looking at loosing money on breeding or because you don't like the government telling you what to do?
This might make me hated but I'm all for the bans. There are already so many unwanted giant snakes in the states, why should we have the right to breed/import more? Sometimes reptile breeders really upset me, do you honestly think all the thousands of snakes/lizards that are being bred every year will end up in responsible homes? DO you even give a damn about the animals or are you just pissed about "being controled"

I think alot of it is the "will we be next????" mentality...

Same with dog bans...they ban pit bulls and chihuahua breeders freakout...som' people think that the animals rights people are going to eventually ban everything under the sun...which, in my opinion is fantasy.

If I kept burms and found them suddenly illegal I would simply keep another species. Its not the end of the world to me...I do respect that to som' people it is the end of their world, as they can't friggin function without a specific species/dog breed in their lives.

You don't see anyone in Ca complaining they can't have a pet giraffe. I own/love a pit bull, but if they were no longer legal I wouldn't cry about it. There are lots of animals in this world...including TONS of homeless/unwanted burms.

I do not think banning the IMPORT of burms will destroy our industry. I do like the existing laws about ownership in FL.

Bring on the flames.

 

[Kokopelli]

I admit ignorance to the internal affairs of how you deal with the authorities back in Florida and the USA...
However, from this angle it looks as though much effort is being put into "extinguishing fires"... As an outsider it seems like much effort is being put into shrugging off all attempts to interfere... however, I believe that interference is inevitable.

The authorities will try and keep everything in check, that's their job- and in the face of the growing popularity of exotic pets- it is a matter of time before some manner of law will pass.

I think that perhaps... if some effort was put into offering said authorities the herp community's cooperation, maybe you will be able to help shape a positive system which will take into consideration your very valid points.

Let us be honest... some people who should not be allowed to keep venomous snakes, or big constrictors- do so. And it ends up on the news.
Such animals can be as dangerous as any gun

I don't know if the herp community there extended a hand to co-operate with authority, or just extended a hand to try and blow them off.

This defiance won't help to deter them forever- Some arguments are valid, and more and more occurrences involving reptiles will be published.

Instead of trying to delay the inevitable... which IS inevitable because it will concern the public enough(There is an irrational fear here)... I can't see a continued existence without regulation lasting.

The more you fight and do not take the initiative to reach the very much needed compromise... I'm afraid that those people who are ignorant and have a lot of power, will end up creating the regulation- which will probably be without basis and very counter-productive.

Just my two cents here- as I have said, I plead ignorance as to whether or not such an attempt was made

 

[snakewispera snr]

If I kept burms and found them suddenly illegal I would simply keep another species. Its not the end of the world to me...I do respect that to som' people it is the end of their world, as they can't friggin function without a specific species/dog breed in their lives.

You don't see anyone in Ca complaining they can't have a pet giraffe. I own/love a pit bull, but if they were no longer legal I wouldn't cry about it. There are lots of animals in this world...including TONS of homeless/unwanted burms.

I do not think banning the IMPORT of burms will destroy our industry. I do like the existing laws about ownership in FL.

Bring on the flames.

But if it was your pet fluffy that was being PTS you would care and shed buckets of tears..... Sure later you could get another species when you have got over the death of a beloved pet that you've had for 10 yrs.....

 

[CrazyCorn]

I think alot of it is the "will we be next????" mentality...

Same with dog bans...they ban pit bulls and chihuahua breeders freakout...som' people think that the animals rights people are going to eventually ban everything under the sun...which, in my opinion is fantasy.

If I kept burms and found them suddenly illegal I would simply keep another species. Its not the end of the world to me...I do respect that to som' people it is the end of their world, as they can't friggin function without a specific species/dog breed in their lives.

You don't see anyone in Ca complaining they can't have a pet giraffe. I own/love a pit bull, but if they were no longer legal I wouldn't cry about it. There are lots of animals in this world...including TONS of homeless/unwanted burms.

I do not think banning the IMPORT of burms will destroy our industry. I do like the existing laws about ownership in FL.

Bring on the flames.

The problem isn't that they wanted to ban the import of Burms they originally were pushing for a complete ban on ownership of large and thus 'dangerous' snakes not limited to Burms. They enacted the ROC just a short time ago and haven't studied the affects of that in the long term yet to see how successful that law is. Also couple all of this with the fact that banning Burms won't magically remove them from the Everglades or the pet hobby there is no immediate reason to go through with such an extreme piece of legislation. The creator and pusher of the original ban also said that he created based on the death of that young girl months back and felt it was a good time to push it through.

Case study: Miami-Dade banned the ownership of Pitbulls many years ago.

Affects: Underground dog fighting rings still flourish in the area and caused more people to move their animals a county or two over.

Blankets bans don't work and are bad news for legitimate keepers and breeders which are the majority. Many times with blanket bans such as the one they were proposing here they add in other species before the completion of the bill that were not the main reasons for the bill such as Carpet pythons and Scrub pythons have been added to bills, like the proposed Burm ban, in the past for no other reason than 'they are kinda like a burm and scare me'. Carpet/Scrub pythons can attain a long total length but there have been few issues regarding their possession and I have yet to here a valid reason to ban them as well when they create dangerous animal/snake bills. You could also use Carpet/Scrub pythons as an example of banning one species then going after the others, if we let them freely take away our ownership rights they will do so believe it or not, the Herp industry is the most at risk from this since the general public doesn't understand our passion for these animals since they are not furry, cuddly, or want a hug so we must protect ourselves.

Please don't take this wrong or personal it is just my view I fully support the closing of importation on certain species and welcome proper permits or reasonable laws. I think the state should continue to enforce the current ROC permit heavily maybe more than before and see how successful that is before making rash judgments based on one event. Either way it goes any new laws won't affect me since I am moving out of state on the 28th but I still hope they make a rational decision.

 

[Brewster320]

There are already so many unwanted giant snakes in the states, why should we have the right to breed/import more? Sometimes reptile breeders really upset me, do you honestly think all the thousands of snakes/lizards that are being bred every year will end up in responsible homes?

There are lots of animals in this world...including TONS of homeless/unwanted burms.

Well how many unwanted dogs are there in the US...Thousands? Also how many dogs end up in abusive and unresponsile homes..Thousands? The same can be said for cats, birds, hampsters, turtles, frogs, horses, cows, ect, ect..

So banning all these animals would be the answer? Its a fact about people, some are carry and responsible while others aren't. As long as people keep pets, of any kind, there will be homeless, abused, and unwanted animals. its a nastey fact of life and banning isn't the way to go about this. And thats all I have to say.

 

[Maize411]

I sent out my e-mail and I signed up to receive daily updates from USARK...I can't believe the Gov. is making our hobby and passion to difficult..It seems like we have to fight for it every month..With all the terrorist things going on, the war, the economy failing..You would think they would worry about those things..but NOOO let's worry about banning snakes in all the states we possibly can..this is sooo friggin stupid and retarded!!

 

[kathylove]

There is a HUGE difference between regulation and blanket bans. Regulation is what the Reptiles of Concern law in Florida is all about. Florida Fish and Wildlife spent a HUGE amount of time and money, and so did private breeders, meeting together to try to hammer out regulations that would satisfy both sides. If I remember correctly, it took at least a year or two of work to get it to come together. After all of that work resulted in the ROC, the governor wants to throw it away long before it has had time to be properly evaluated, and just ban them after all. It will make him look good to the non herper voters, and they are the majority. That is all that is important.

The pythons in the Everglades appear (from a university DNA study) to be almost all related to each other, pointing to most coming from just a very few (or even a pair or gravid female) pythons, rather than thousands of irresponsible pet owners driving all the way down to release them (although I certainly believe that could have happened a FEW times, as well), as constantly repeated in the media. And the child that was supposedly killed by a family pet (I still suspect foul play, myself) python was from an animal that was NOT licensed or kept in the manner prescribed by the ROC law. Do you think that person would have gotten rid of their pet if it was banned, since they didn't get the license and keep it properly under the law now? What would a total ban have accomplished in these cases that the ROC would not accomplish? The main accomplishment would be that python owners will go underground instead of obtaining a license as they do now. Once they are underground, there is no way to monitor the safety of the caging, conditions, etc.

And if you think that the humaniac groups don't have a more radical agenda than JUST totally stopping the entire reptile trade (for that quote, just look at the last paragraph written by HSUS in their book on the reptile trade), then start using Google to find quotes from some of the prominent leaders of those groups. They are not happy with pet dogs, cats, or hamsters, either. But they know that it is not possible to attack ownership of those YET. I am not suggesting that they will achieve the banning of all pets in the next 10 years - it will be much more gradual than that. They start with less popular animals such as reptiles and pit bulls, and work their way up. Once they get to more popular animals, there will be fewer pet keepers who still care enough to stand up to them. Divide and conquer is a strategy that can really work - if we let it.

 

[Criosphynx]

But if it was your pet fluffy that was being PTS you would care and shed buckets of tears..... Sure later you could get another species when you have got over the death of a beloved pet that you've had for 10 yrs.....

Iam not aware of this happening anywhere. Everywhere there has been a blanket ban people are given time to relocate or rehome their animals.

Well how many unwanted dogs are there in the US...Thousands?

Millions.

Also how many dogs end up in abusive and unresponsile homes..Thousands? The same can be said for cats, birds, hampsters, turtles, frogs, horses, cows, ect, ect..

Iam not arguing this. This is a whole separate issue. Iam refering to unwanted animals, not neglect/abuse cases.

So banning all these animals would be the answer? Its a fact about people, some are carry and responsible while others aren't. As long as people keep pets, of any kind, there will be homeless, abused, and unwanted animals. its a nastey fact of life and banning isn't the way to go about this. And thats all I have to say.

where did I say this? Please don't put words in my mouth. Its rude.

my point is only this "the sky is not falling, if they ban one species they are not likely to be successful banning ALL species.
Perhaps if the public as a majority becomes afraid of small snakes too...but my perception is that LARGE snakes are concerning, and I can't say thats an irrational perception.

This freakout is silly.

 

[Criosphynx]

And if you think that the humaniac groups don't have a more radical agenda than JUST totally stopping the entire reptile trade (for that quote, just look at the last paragraph written by HSUS in their book on the reptile trade), then start using Google to find quotes from some of the prominent leaders of those groups. They are not happy with pet dogs, cats, or hamsters, either. But they know that it is not possible to attack ownership of those YET. I am not suggesting that they will achieve the banning of all pets in the next 10 years - it will be much more gradual than that. They start with less popular animals such as reptiles and pit bulls, and work their way up. Once they get to more popular animals, there will be fewer pet keepers who still care enough to stand up to them. Divide and conquer is a strategy that can really work - if we let it.

this is exactly what Iam refering too. I really don't see the american people allowing this to happen.

IMO the AR people will hit a point where they have done all they can and will no longer have success...you really think they will be successful banning all breeds and species? Seriously?


Iam trying to be respectful, but I honestly don't understand the panic.

 

[snakewispera snr]

Iam not aware of this happening anywhere. Everywhere there has been a blanket ban people are given time to relocate or rehome their animals.

Sorry... I was thinking back to the Pitbull ban in the UK in the late 80's and early 90's.....
It's still not nice to have to relocate your animal.....

 

[Criosphynx]

Sorry... I was thinking back to the Pitbull ban in the UK in the late 80's and early 90's.....
It's still not nice to have to relocate your animal.....

and I agree completely.

I don't know about the UK but here dogs/snakes etc are property and a bit harder to take from people.




also who would enforce this ban? Seriously..they can't even get people to license their dogs and they are som'how going to magically know who owns what snakes and where? Like mentioned before I doubt this will stop anyone from owning whatever is banned...there are hundreds of thousands of ferrets in california, people even sell them openly in the recycler.

 

[CrazyCorn]

this is exactly what Iam refering too. I really don't see the american people allowing this to happen.

IMO the AR people will hit a point where they have done all they can and will no longer have success...you really think they will be successful banning all breeds and species? Seriously?


Iam trying to be respectful, but I honestly don't understand the panic.

Nobody said they have a real chance at banning pet the entire pet trade but they will take what they can in the name of their own ideals. I wouldn't say that anyone is in panic mode right now we are just trying stop any needless bans before they have a chance to get passed by those that are less knowledgeable on the subject.