2 snakes, 1 cage?

[Shiari]

Patches:

Every single picture you have of garter snakes does not get to count. You see garters do that as part of their mating strategy. That's a mating pile, not a "snakes are bestest friends with each other" pile.

The rattlesnake pile is most likely a brumation group, as they are known to pile out onto the rocks on sunny days.

The corns, as you said, were mating.


So, your pictures show squat.

 

[Iguanagirl8662]

Patches- I cohabbed my snakes for years and fed live and I had the same argument with Starsevol about cohabbing and about fedding live. I never had a issues with my snakes for years till one day they mated and the female wasn't really big enough. After that it all went down hill. They started regurging and one got bit by the mouse. That's when I realized the people on here were right and they weren't trying to pick on me just trying to help. They get a little heated about it because they care so much for animals and don't want to see them put at risk. Sure you can keep snakes together and never have any issues, but that doesn't mean it's right and when something does go wrong it really goes wrong.

So to the OP, they are solitary animals and should be kept alone so buy another set up if you plan to get another.

 

[starsevol]

Patches- I cohabbed my snakes for years and fed live and I had the same argument with Starsevol about cohabbing and about fedding live. I never had a issues with my snakes for years till one day they mated and the female wasn't really big enough. After that it all went down hill. They started regurging and one got bit by the mouse. That's when I realized the people on here were right and they weren't trying to pick on me just trying to help. They get a little heated about it because they care so much for animals and don't want to see them put at risk. Sure you can keep snakes together and never have any issues, but that doesn't mean it's right and when something does go wrong it really goes wrong.

So to the OP, they are solitary animals and should be kept alone so buy another set up if you plan to get another.

Oh yeah, we used to have some go-rounds, didn't we? :laugh:
I knew eventually you would see the light though, and hoped that whatever caused you to change wasn't too catastrophic!
Missed you around here, by the way.

 

[Bartholomew]

any tips, advice, suggestions, questions, love mail, hate mail, etc...it's all welcome...

Remember posting that when you introduced yourself? You should be letting these people help you. Trust me they're not doing it to annoy you. They want whats best for the poor snakes.

 

[Kronos]

Remember posting that when you introduced yourself? You should be letting these people help you. Trust me they're not doing it to annoy you. They want whats best for the poor snakes.

Patches wasn't asking for advice, he was responding to someone else's thread. Merely expressing a difference of opinion, which is a good thing on a discussion forum (believe it or not).

I decided to look up Kathy Love's opinion on cohabbing, and found it in the Husbandry FAQ. She seems to be ambivalent about it, saying that it's probably not a good idea, but that there are times when it can work. She said that she has cohabbed snakes on occasion. Then she goes on to give advice on how to do it successfully.

But more interesting is the following quote in this FAQ, about how some people can have success going against the "accepted practices".

Her Quote:
Some experienced keepers offering advice get into the "never" or "always" do or don't this or that. But I go more for "usually" something works better than another thing . But each circumstance is different. Keepers who have a little experience and actually think about the likely consequences of what they are doing (and how to deal with them) can often successfully do things that beginners or "non-thinkers" will do haphazardly and unsuccessfully. Listen to all good advice, and then make your own informed decision based on your own circumstances and judgment.

Good luck!
Kathy Love

 

[patches152]

exactly. ever since i've joined here, to learn some new stuff...but also to share my first hand experiences, all i've seen is hate towards different thinking and scare tactics. it's pretty sad that a group with such "educated" and "experienced" users can't see past their own selfish opinions. you all want to ask for proof or reasons on why, well the OP asked if it was possible, i said yes it is possible. however, there are inherent risks involved, and i stated those risks clearly. point/counter point if you will. BUT the rest of you all decided to take an absolute stand saying that EVERY snake that is cohabitating will DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH...well, i got news for you. cannibalism is rare, and only happens in youth. sure stress is a possibility, but from the OCD psycho cat lady treatment of the snakes, it's possible to have stress with only one snake per habitat. there is inherent risk in everything you do. walking down the street is not safe if you consider that you could slip, fall, break your hip, an airplane could fall out of the sky donnie darko style and squash us all flat. doesn't stop me from walking down the street. everyone can take their own experiences, and weigh the risks individually. but don't say that you can NEVER house two snakes together because it will always end up bad.

this whole convo reminds me of debating whether god exists. you can't prove that he does exist, but you can't prove that he doesn't. at the end of the day, you can all do what you want. someone asked a question and i gave my opinion. you can disagree, but my opinion is still my own. it's founded on first hand experience and first hand experience of people i know and trust. based on your actions here in this discussion, along with your haste to jump to name calling and bashing, i will no longer accept the advice of most of you here. i just hope that your hate and fear mongering doesn't scare away a potential owner of a future snake, it is truly a great experience.

 

[Dreamsnake]

I doubt that Patches will read this, but here I go. All new animals need to go through a quarantine stage of at least 6 months. By quarantine nothing from one snake touches anything intended for the other snake. So to answer the question of introducing a new snake to the established snake's habitat...do not do it for the sake of the pet's health. You will need a habitat for the new snake anyway. After the 6 month quarantine is over and you think it alright to see if they can play together nicely take that step when it comes. But can you explain to me how you know so much about reptiles to understand when they are stressed?

 

[Iguanagirl8662]

Oh yeah, we used to have some go-rounds, didn't we? :laugh:
I knew eventually you would see the light though, and hoped that whatever caused you to change wasn't too catastrophic!
Missed you around here, by the way.

I missed being here lol and I did eventually see the light and thankfully it wasn't cause by anything catastrophic, nothing separating them couldn't fix.

 

[sciencechick]

Not a snake expert at all and probably shouldn't be jumping in here, but what really stands out to me about this argument is that even if it isn't harmful (which there is real evidence to discuss, unlike the god argument you bring up, people have been observing thousands of these animals directly for years) what is the point?

Corn snakes don't take up a ton of space, and don't take a ton of work. Why is it so hard to separate them for the casual keeper? I can understand it more for breeders, but if you want a second snake but think its too much effort to get another set up that is probably a big signal that you may as well just wait.

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Disclaimer: I am not an expert I can only speak on what I myself have seen.

Cohabbing is horrid! I took in a pair that were cohabbed for 13 years. The female came to me looking eggbound, with the help of a vet, and a lot of money I really did not have, found out she is consitpated and has a small case of scale rot which we are treating. She must be massaged and have swims 2 times a week. She is extremely lucky to be alive as the former owner had no clue how long she had been this way just that she looked like that "for some time". She is known to double clutch and I prey for no slugs this year as she has not recovered enough to survive producing any in my and my vet's oppinion. I have prepaid to put her down if she developes eggs as in his professional oppinion she would not survive laying or surgery to remove them. Her system is too torn up and traumatized. The vet is also watching her for going septic from the constitaption, another miracle that she is alive, as well as for RI, from being changed from Corn Cob bedding to paper. He doesn't know exactly how the change will affect her.

The male got VERY lucky, had a slight case of scale rot, but so far it has been beaten, we are still checking him at every handling though. He also has a couple fatty lumps that have come out in his slimming down that the vet says will never go away. Half his tail is gone, admitedly the former owners fault as she slammed a sliding door on him when she was surprised he tried to escape through an open door. :headbang:

I am only posting a couple pics of the poor female to show what living that way did to her.

above was taken the day I brought her home.

The first below was taken December 2nd. The other was taken Jan 5th. I got her in November.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

CarnivorousZoo! I'm glad to hear an update on those guys, I was wondering what happened to them! Is the female really just constipated or does she have fecoliths? Fecoliths are masses of solid waste that have become especially hard and dry, and could have to be removed surgically.

Have you asked the vet about using mineral oil or magnesium oxide? It can be injected via a tube to the stomach, and is an aid for constipation. The mineral oil can also be injected into a mouse and fed to the snake. But talk to your vet about it first, since they'll know what's best.

Patches152 has been proven wrong, and isn't handling it terribly well. Hopefully with some time they'll come back and change opinions. I hope this thread will help educate some individuals who feel like housing their snakes together, and show them that the risks are just too high to even consider it.

 

[Christen]

OMGosh. I was wondering what happened to her too. I can't not believe that was all from poop. I wanted to cry when I originally saw the pics now I really want to cry for. Could you only imagine the pain she was going through. How is she looking now? Mineral Mice, I think is a good idea. Get that crap moving out of her faster.

 

[patches152]

look, bottom line is this: someone asked IF corns can cohab, i said yes, but stipulated circumstances to avoid. i'm not saying i'm gonna do it. but i've seen it done, and i explained the first hand experience i've learned. there is no YES or NO answer, and that's where all of you have it wrong. it's a case by case basis, some snakes will do it, some won't. i haven't been proven wrong because i'm not wrong. i have a pair of corns that cohab, so it's possible. end of discussion. that's what the OP was asking. can it be done...and the answer is yes. you might disagree with it based on moral or bleeding heart crazy cat lady reasons, but it doesn't change the answer. if you don't want to do it, don't. nobody is twisting your arm. we can go round and round about this forever. so far we're at 53 posts with this one and we still have yet to find some common ground, so here it is:

can corns cohab?

yes; unless they are babies, are shy, stress easily or if you are concerned about infections or unplanned pregnancies. aside from those reasons (which all of those can be prevented with diligence) sure, go for it.

BOOM.

 

[susang]

look, bottom line is this: someone asked IF corns can cohab, i said yes, but stipulated circumstances to avoid. i'm not saying i'm gonna do it. but i've seen it done, and i explained the first hand experience i've learned. there is no YES or NO answer, and that's where all of you have it wrong. it's a case by case basis, some snakes will do it, some won't. i haven't been proven wrong because i'm not wrong. i have a pair of corns that cohab, so it's possible. end of discussion. that's what the OP was asking. can it be done...and the answer is yes. you might disagree with it based on moral or bleeding heart crazy cat lady reasons, but it doesn't change the answer. if you don't want to do it, don't. nobody is twisting your arm. we can go round and round about this forever. so far we're at 53 posts with this one and we still have yet to find some common ground, so here it is:

can corns cohab?

yes; unless they are babies, are shy, stress easily or if you are concerned about infections or unplanned pregnancies. aside from those reasons (which all of those can be prevented with diligence) sure, go for it.

BOOM.

1. Who is the bleeding heart crazy cat lady you keep talking about.

2. You going to put a condom on that snake?

3. You are exceedingly rude and your tone is way out of line.

 

[patches152]

1. Who is the bleeding heart crazy cat lady you keep talking about.

2. You going to put a condom on that snake?

3. You are exceedingly rude and your tone is way out of line.

Sorry, mom. My tone is merely in response to the personal attacks. Crazy cat lady isn't anyone in particular, but a metaphor for the overprotective mood that exists here. Wait, is there such thing as snake condoms? If so, problem solved!

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Are you serious? We've proven that keeping corn snakes together consistently causes them to have stress related issues. You have not. Can someone smoke their whole lives without getting cancer? Sure. Should they smoke? No. No one here said corn snakes WILL eat each other, or WILL stop eating. Only that it has been proven time and time again that it DOES happen and that no one should take those risks with their pets just because they want to save space. :/

 

[patches152]

Are you serious? We've proven that keeping corn snakes together consistently causes them to have stress related issues. You have not. Can someone smoke their whole lives without getting cancer? Sure. Should they smoke? No. No one here said corn snakes WILL eat each other, or WILL stop eating. Only that it has been proven time and time again that it DOES happen and that no one should take those risks with their pets just because they want to save space. :/

but it IS possible to house them together. Right? Examples have been given that its possible, regardless of the reasons, right?

My point still stands, and you are a prime example: instead of deciding FOR people, provide them with the facts. All of them, not just the ones that support your views, and let people decide for themselves.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

It's also possible that I can jump off roofs. Hooray.

I don't think there is much use in debating *arguing* anymore. Everything has been said that can be said. The way I see it, I just see no positive to housing snakes together. I'd rather not risk unhealthy/dead snakes in exchange for no positive return. So I will continue housing my snakes separately. We've already given Patches (and other readers) our reasons for not agreeing with cohabbing snakes. I don't think shoving it down their throat is going to help much, they'll make their own decision whether we agree with it or not.

 

[patches152]

It's also possible that I can jump off roofs. Hooray.

I don't think there is much use in debating *arguing* anymore. Everything has been said that can be said. The way I see it, I just see no positive to housing snakes together. I'd rather not risk unhealthy/dead snakes in exchange for no positive return. So I will continue housing my snakes separately. We've already given Patches (and other readers) our reasons for not agreeing with cohabbing snakes. I don't think shoving it down their throat is going to help much, they'll make their own decision whether we agree with it or not.

that's been my whole purpose in this discussion. i've seen this action far too much on various topics on this forum in the month or so since i've joined. i could care less what other people do, and i understand the reasons you and others have spoken out against cohabitation. i was merely playing devil's advocate.

 

[Jdog3131]

Ok everyone calm down!We all(hopefully)know that co-habing is bad and that corn snakes do not live anywhere near 29 alone not to mention the stress of being with another one...Anyway I started to post to say to stop arguing!It gets us NOWHERE.Remember feeding the troll is very bad as it gives it MORE!Just me stating my $.02.