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adotion home study + reptiles = ? fail ?

Besides my snakes, I keep rats. I have 2. Both live in a huge Martins 695, eat only Harlan Tek and approved treats and see a vet at the first symptom of illness. One has resp issues and is on medication twice a day. If I was doing something that might endanger them, and someone told me, you bet your bippy it would change, and fast.

And if I did have a dog or a cat, and found out I was doing something wrong, it would change immediately. Especially if I joined a forum where other people kept the same animals, and had been keeping them longer. I wouldn't need 20 people to tell me, either.

As an aside, I could never ever do what you do. Why you aren't stark raving mad at this point is a mystery to me because I wouldn't last an hour doing what you do. And thank you for that.
 
starsevol said:
Besides my snakes, I keep rats. I have 2. Both live in a huge Martins 695, eat only Harlan Tek and approved treats and see a vet at the first symptom of illness. One has resp issues and is on medication twice a day. If I was doing something that might endanger them, and someone told me, you bet your bippy it would change, and fast.

And if I did have a dog or a cat, and found out I was doing something wrong, it would change immediately. Especially if I joined a forum where other people kept the same animals, and had been keeping them longer. I wouldn't need 20 people to tell me, either.

As an aside, I could never ever do what you do. Why you aren't stark raving mad at this point is a mystery to me because I wouldn't last an hour doing what you do. And thank you for that.
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The main point is that there is no 100% right or 100% wrong way. There are many factors to consider for each individual situation. What may be right for one may be all wrong for another. The veterinary profession itself can't decide what is 100% right or wrong when it comes to pet care.

The vet I work for does not approve of rawhide chews. I, on the other hand, have grown up with every dog my family has ever owned eating multiple rawhide chews every single day, and I have yet to see a single problem in my own dogs. But I have seen dogs with blockages caused by rawhide chews. Applying the same logic shown by this forum over cohabitation and putting it towards feeding your dog rawhide chews, I should be strung up and horsewhipped for continuing to feed my dogs rawhide chews even though I know for a fact that they have the potential to cause a problem with my dog, even to the point of being fatal. And yet, we sell rawhide dental chews in our hospital. I guess the vet's stand on rawhide chews doesn't quite go as far as his profit margin. And I'm positive I can come up with hundreds of people to speak for the use of rawhide chews as well as against it, and if each side had a dog forum like this one, I'll bet you'll find the exact same type of argumentative discussions as you see here about cohabitation, and each forum will swear their side is the only answer.

So...yes, you feel very strongly about cohabitation, but from what I understand, cohabitation is the norm and not the exception in Europe, and a good percentage of an entire continent can't be that completely wrong, can they?
 
Susan said:
The main point is that there is no 100% right or 100% wrong way. There are many factors to consider for each individual situation. What may be right for one may be all wrong for another. The veterinary profession itself can't decide what is 100% right or wrong when it comes to pet care.

The vet I work for does not approve of rawhide chews. I, on the other hand, have grown up with every dog my family has ever owned eating multiple rawhide chews every single day, and I have yet to see a single problem in my own dogs. But I have seen dogs with blockages caused by rawhide chews. Applying the same logic shown by this forum over cohabitation and putting it towards feeding your dog rawhide chews, I should be strung up and horsewhipped for continuing to feed my dogs rawhide chews even though I know for a fact that they have the potential to cause a problem with my dog, even to the point of being fatal. And yet, we sell rawhide dental chews in our hospital. I guess the vet's stand on rawhide chews doesn't quite go as far as his profit margin. And I'm positive I can come up with hundreds of people to speak for the use of rawhide chews as well as against it, and if each side had a dog forum like this one, I'll bet you'll find the exact same type of argumentative discussions as you see here about cohabitation, and each forum will swear their side is the only answer.

So...yes, you feel very strongly about cohabitation, but from what I understand, cohabitation is the norm and not the exception in Europe, and a good percentage of an entire continent can't be that completely wrong, can they?
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Not to argue, but dogs LOVE rawhide chews. Knowing what I know about them, I wouldn't give a dog one, but rawhide chews are a treat that makes dogs happy. Dogs don't avoid rawhide chews, they attack them! Rawhide chews can't devour your dog. Rawhide chews can't get a puppy pregnant. Rawhide chews can't cause stress or a regurge or transfer mites or nemotodes (ok maybe they can, but I don't think they do anyway).

I wouldn't give a dog one because of what can happen, but if you do give your dog one you are doing it because it will make him happy, and you love him. It's like giving your kid ice cream. Not the best for them, but it's a treat and it makes them happy and as long as it's not all you give them, that's fine.

But co habbing does not make a snake happy. It does not make their lives any better, and there is evidence that it makes their lives much much worse.
 
I think the point that Susan is trying to make is that people shouldn't jump on other people simply because they do something different. Cohabbing seems to be one of those 'fire starter' type of topics but people seem to forget to take in differences in animals/people.

Either way, the point of the post is about how to make corns and beardies appear more family friendly to people who may not understand reptiles. First, I would make sure that their cages are kept clean/etc. The other thing you'll probably want to do is show them how handle-able the animals are. I had a cop in my home for an issue with a girl that's staying with me. At first, he was a bit agitated by the snakes until I took Flurry out and showed him how calm and people friendly he was. Once he understood they were nonthreatening, he relaxed. The same goes for people who will be doing the home check. If they feel that the snakes will be a threat to a child and you do nothing to show them differently, that's what's going on the paper. However, if you show them that the animals are not aggressive and will not be a threat to a child, that will be a positive. The snake room idea isn't bad and would show that you are putting the child's needs first (assuming you have the room for both a child's room and a dedicated snake room). Also, I would make sure that everything is essentially baby proof. Nothing that could be tipped over, pulled down, clutter free, etc. If you have a relative with small children, they are great at finding the things you've forgotten. The last thing I'd recommend is not to make a big deal about the reptiles in the first place. If you act nervous about them, the inspectors will pick up on that and many will assume you are being nervous for a reason. Unfortunately, they'll probably assume it's because they are dangerous and not because you're worried you'll have to get rid of the animals. Show them, tell them a little about them, ask if they have any questions for you, and then move on. Quite frankly, a stove is more dangerous to a child than a cornsnake or a beardie for that matter. I hope this helps and though I do recommending separating them, I understand that sometimes cohabbing isn't a bad thing either. For anyone who wishes to discuss that issue with me, I check my PM's.
 
I think the real issue that you will face has nothing to do with the snakes and bearded dragons being non-venomous or even that the snakes will never get large enough to hurt a child. It seems like the actual issue is salmonella risk with a new child (especially if you're adopting a baby). In healthy adults, getting salmonella most likely wouldn't be a huge deal, but it can be more serious with someone so young. It wouldn't matter if you had a separate reptile room and/or had locks on your cages.

(Sorry if someone has already pointed this out, I haven't read through the whole thread yet.)
 
And by 'actual issue', I mean what the home evaluator might be concerned about - I didn't mean to imply that you don't wash your hands after handling reptiles!
 
Just to prevent any potential issues about Salmonella, the OP needs to research just how many verified cases of Salmonella having been transmitted to humans from reptiles there are. I'll bet that you won't find many and that most Salmonella cases were from completely reptile-free sources.
 
When studies were done a couple years ago, there were actually quite a few cases that involved reptiles but the majority of those were from turtles and iguanas. The studies also mentioned that proper hygiene hadn't been followed in those cases, most of the iguanas were 'free roaming' in the house, and if people had used enclosures/anti-bacterial soap, there wouldn't have been a real risk. Snakes had >0.1% risk for their owners to contract Salmonella.

There are quite a few people out there though, that mistakenly think that all reptiles are a high Salmonella risk and don't know that some reptiles are lower risk than others so it might be good to have some information on corns/beardies in particular just in case.

I had to do a research paper on it last semester for a college class and I'll see if I can dig up the studies that I used...
 
Sorry to jump in here, but your beardies should not be cohabbed either. Beardies are solitary animals and it stresses them to have roommates....not to mention they can lose limbs and/or life at any time. Many owners have come home to horrible surprises even after the dragons have lived together "fine" for quite some time. If you look on the web and in beardie forums, you will see that cohabbing dragons is just as harmful as cohabbing your snakes. I hope you take experienced advice on raising children better than you do for your animals. SMH
 
I DO have a suggestion on the home study though. Because both corns and beardies are actually recommended as "first pets", you could go online and print out info sheets about both animals. You will be able to show legitimate sources on the safety of them and also how having pets are actually beneficial to children. Now if you had say...a Komodo or an alligator, that would be a much harder sell. Beardies are usually recommended for kids (with supervision) because of their calm demeanor and the fact that they are almost never aggressive.
 
I know Im a newb on this board but if it was me Id rehome my reptiles if I thought I would get a negative home check.Im sorry I love my animals but personally children would come first.Find them all a really good home.Maybe just keep one or two of your favorites, so you can have them in super clean, nice looking,locked cages.
 
joann42 said:
I know Im a newb on this board but if it was me Id rehome my reptiles if I thought I would get a negative home check.Im sorry I love my animals but personally children would come first.Find them all a really good home.Maybe just keep one or two of your favorites, so you can have them in super clean, nice looking,locked cages.
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That would be extraordinarily lucky....for the animals!

I am still waiting for someone to tell me how co habbing benefits the SNAKES.
 
Does anyone find it odd that the OP has not come back to comment? Was this thread started as a legitimate topic? I always get suspicious when a hot button subject gets started and the OP doesn't come back in after 4 pages of heated comments. Maybe the OP doesn't want to get involved in what is now a co-hab debate, that they said they didn't want, or was this just a ploy to get people pissed off? I wonder.
 
dionythicus said:
Does anyone find it odd that the OP has not come back to comment? Was this thread started as a legitimate topic? I always get suspicious when a hot button subject gets started and the OP doesn't come back in after 4 pages of heated comments. Maybe the OP doesn't want to get involved in what is now a co-hab debate, that they said they didn't want, or was this just a ploy to get people pissed off? I wonder.
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I also was kind of wondering that, but not all the comments have been regarding the ethics of co-habbing. Also, it hasn't been that long; some people probably don't check the forum 5x a day (like me!) :p
 
dionythicus said:
Does anyone find it odd that the OP has not come back to comment? Was this thread started as a legitimate topic? I always get suspicious when a hot button subject gets started and the OP doesn't come back in after 4 pages of heated comments. Maybe the OP doesn't want to get involved in what is now a co-hab debate, that they said they didn't want, or was this just a ploy to get people pissed off? I wonder.
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I was wondering the exact same thing but did not want to be the first to comment seeing as I am such a hot-head.
 
I just wonder about it. I've seen it happen several times before, but sometimes these threads are for real. If it is, I wish them luck. If not, I hope the thread dies.
 
I don't wonder about it at all.

This person wanted to adopt a child, and get advice on how to handle having the reptiles there for a home inspection and was promptly told they'd be incapable of raising a child.

Why *would* they want to come back to this topic when they were told they'd be an unfit parent?
 
Shiari said:
I don't wonder about it at all.

This person wanted to adopt a child, and get advice on how to handle having the reptiles there for a home inspection and was promptly told they'd be incapable of raising a child.

Why *would* they want to come back to this topic when they were told they'd be an unfit parent?
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One thing to consider though, Let's day it was YOU who was someone who had to place a child into a caring loving and responsible home.

If you knew this person kept animals, and joined a forum that dealt with that particular species, and one of his first threads he started was asking if one of his corns could be a cannibal, and the answer was a resounding YES from people with expericance in such things and he just brushed it off, would that influence your decision? He came right out and asked if one of his snakes that he keeps in the same cage with 2 others could eat them, and when told that it could, he just didn't give a hoot.

Somehow, I can see him asking if a toddler needs to travel in a car seat, other parents saying yes, and him arguing with them.....

Plus if he really didn't want it mentioned, he could have just asked the question and not reminded the whole forum that he's practicing what a huge number of us consider animal cruelty.

Seems to me he comes in just to stir the pot, and then poof, he's gone for awhile....
 
People often don't react with animals the way they do with children. I've seen well behaved, well groomed, well fed children come in... with the emaciated, matted family dog.
 
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