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Symphony_grace

Symphony_grace

That One Weird Girl
I need to know how old a female corn snake will be when she gives off her scent of ovulation. I have a juvenile snow corn and a baby normal okeetee in the same tank and I'm pretty scared of breeding with her young age.
Basically, how old is a female when she starts to ovulate?
 
A male and female Corn together can always mate, regardless of age. It's only safe for a female to form and lay eggs when she's around three years old unless you're experienced enough to tell otherwise.

You need to separate them as soon as possible.

Plus, having two Corns of such differerent sizes together can be dangerous.
 
I agree with bitsy. Please separate them soon, unless you want to have only one corn.
Also, there's plenty of information available on this forum if you use the search function. :)
 
RobbiesCornField said:
I agree with bitsy. Please separate them soon, unless you want to have only one corn.
Also, there's plenty of information available on this forum if you use the search function. :)
Click to expand...

What do you mean only one corn? They've been living together for a few weeks and I still have them!
 
Stress from sharing a tank can kill them. Early breeding can kill a female. They are known to be cannibalistic. All resulting in 1 corn...
 
airenlow said:
Stress from sharing a tank can kill them. Early breeding can kill a female. They are known to be cannibalistic. All resulting in 1 corn...
Click to expand...

If stress from sharing can kill them, then why haven't they died yet? And they're used to each other so I don't get how it could when they're still alive to this very day, sharing a shelter and moving plants in their tank together.
I know early breeding can kill a female. That is obvious. Especially a youngling size. She's not typically a baby, more outgrown but still.
 
From what I have learned here, them sharing a shelter is competing for the best spot. Not snuggling. They can be in the same cage for a while with out any problems and then one day poof... only one fat corn left. Also if your concerned with them breeding why not just get another cage now and not have to worry about it anymore?
 
#1 corn snakes have been known to eat each other, chances are your snow corn will see your normal as a snack. Hence the keep them together if you want one snake.
#2 corn snakes are not social animals, they only seek each other out when they want to mate, so forcing them to live together is unnatural and causes stress. Yes they have live together and seem fine. But stress is building. Your putting them at risk of reguritating their food and or putting them off their food. Plus there is competion for the best hides, best basking spot etc.
#3 Corns can breed at one year old but this often results in the death of the female snake, she is not mature enought to breed and eggs often get stuck. Unless you can find a good emergancy vet who is willing to remove those stuck eggs your female will die a painful death. The rule for breeding a female is 3 years old, 300 grams(you will need a scale) and 3 feet long.
#4 what is your goal for breeding? Do you know basic genetics? What genes does your normal carry? Do you plan to make lots of money off your pets?
 
Wyldrose said it well enough.. And the
airenlow said:
You win! Good luck! :)
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comment was because that member has been around enough to know that generally people who use the argument
Symphony_grace said:
If stress from sharing can kill them, then why haven't they died yet? And they're used to each other so I don't get how it could when they're still alive to this very day, sharing a shelter and moving plants in their tank together.
Click to expand...
generally do not change their mind. And continue to house their snakes together until there is a problem. Usually that problem is regurge, underage pregnancy, or death.

It is possible to house the snakes together safely, but, that requires experienced knowledge of each snakes' attitudes, and knowing how they are when they are stressed out.. You obviously are not prepared to house the snakes together, if you were you wouldn't be asking about it here.. The best thing to do is separate them, do a ton of research (talk to our friends on the other side of the Atlantic, many of them cohab successfully), and then decide if it is worth the risk.

Honestly, you really would be surprised to see how many people we have come on here asking similar questions to the one you asked, and then giving attitude back when the answer is not what they wanted to hear. I just hope you take what is said to you and use it. There is more knowledge here than you can shake a stick at, and most of us worry for the snakes.
 
Symphony_grace said:
If stress from sharing can kill them, then why haven't they died yet? And they're used to each other so I don't get how it could when they're still alive to this very day, sharing a shelter and moving plants in their tank together.
I know early breeding can kill a female. That is obvious. Especially a youngling size. She's not typically a baby, more outgrown but still.
Click to expand...

You stated that it has only been two weeks since they have been together. But continue cohabbing and you will have stressed snakes. My suggestion is to seperate before you have a problem.
 
Here is my story. ( http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113024 ) You definitely need to separate them especially at this age. You don't want to run the risk of loosing you girl because it can happen. These kids were a year old and not even 100 grams.

I have co-habbed before but I would not recommend doing it with opposite sex snakes. If he is ready to breed he will pester her.
 
The old "it's not a problem, till it's a problem" thing.

We are telling you this because we are trying to help. Please take what we say into consideration. We are saying it because want you to have the most time with you pets and not lose one to an accident. Many of us have been keeping snakes for years and years, we have seen the issues cohabbing can cause.

Yes in the wild the share the same range, territory and habitat, but don't spend prolonged periods of time together. The only exception is hibernation, and that is purely OUT OF NECESSITY. They also have many many square feet of woodland to explore and move away from another snake or species of snake they encounter.

20 gallon viv is not equal to a territory in the wild.

Get some shoe box sized storage boxes and make the bull snakes their own tubs. They are super cheap. Stack them on top of each other and get one UTH. Cover the sticky side of the UTH with foil tape and use it as back heat for the two tubs. Please make sure it is regulated in some way with a lamp dimmer or thermostat.

Total cost:
2 Shoe Box Tubs: $2.99 each (cheaper at local Walmart or Kmart) Link for online purchase.

1 UTH: $17.59 for small Zoo med heater (could be cheaper at local pet store) Link for online purchase.

1 Roll of Foil Tape: $5.99 (cheaper at local stores) Link for online purchase.

Lamp Dimmer: $10.03 (could vary, but always between 10-12) Link for online purchase.

Total: $39.59 but you could probably do it for around $30 by shopping local.

Or visuals....

How about some photos? Many from this very forum.

cannibal.jpg


cannibal%20corn%20hatchling.JPG


cannibal2


CannibalCornsnake.jpg


Vollgefressen2.jpg


All images copyright by original owner.
 
Symphony_grace said:
If stress from sharing can kill them, then why haven't they died yet? And they're used to each other so I don't get how it could when they're still alive to this very day, sharing a shelter and moving plants in their tank together.
Click to expand...

:rofl: by this faulty argument, a person who drives while drunk one time and doesn't cause an accident can automatically assume that it is perfectly fine to drive while drunk in the future. I mean, nothing happened to them yet, so they should be perfectly fine in all future drunken endeavors.

It's not a problem, until it's a problem.

If you want to risk any possible problems related to co-habbing, then that is your prerogative. There is nothing we can do here to force you to separate them. But by separating them into their own tank you will have none of the risks of mating too early (possible outcome: death), over-stressing them from co-habbing, possible (even if rare) cannibalistic behavior, or any other problem associated with co-habbing.
 
I see what everyone is saying, I'm just afraid of having to sell off the baby normal is all....
But I think I won't have to worry about breeding, if my book about sexing corns is right, then my snow is actually a female, but is there still a risk with 2 females? I have no room for another tank/shoe box and according to Kathy Love's book on corn snakes, I can keep 2 if I keep an eye on them and feed them separately, which is automatic for me. I know they can be cannibalistic from that and I feed them both on the same day every week quite well.
Don't blame me just because I have no clue in situations like this ok? Quit acting like you're the King of Spades! I asked this for more knowledge, not criticism!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I would find some one who is experienced in sexing to have them sexed for you before you decided to continue housing together. You would really hate to assume both are females and have something go wrong.
 
Symphony_grace said:
Don't blame me just because I have no clue in situations like this ok? Quit acting like you're the King of Spades! I asked this for more knowledge, not criticism!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

We were giving you good advice in the first, and you completely blew us off. We gave you knowledge, and you stated that you knew better than us. There was no initial criticism.

Sexing corns is rarely 100%. You can pop and prove a male hatchling, but you can never *prove* a female is a female until it lays eggs. My Dier popped and probed female. He *sired* last year's clutch of eggs!

Why are you unable to afford to get a separate plastic bin for your snake? It's a couple bucks!


Also, my personal experience with cohabbing: These snakes are the same age in this photo, and were bought when they were the same size. After a month of doing "fine" together, the snow went on a hunger strike. He also developed a very flighty and neurotic personality.

sameage2.jpg
 
cmalchow said:
I would find some one who is experienced in sexing to have them sexed for you before you decided to continue housing together. You would really hate to assume both are females and have something go wrong.
Click to expand...

Of course I would hate it! I love my baby normal too much for her to be hurt :(
But there's still the concept of whether they can still be housed together.
 
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