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Are we killing the future market?

My children are hungry and my truck is in the shop so I can't get to the grocery. I just put my dog in the freezer. Hope everyone is ok with that?
 
Just picking up the end of this thread and reading the last few posts. In comparing it to show dog breeding (I bred and showed Pekingese for years as a small hobby kennel), it is very similar thinking to Vinman. However, with the dogs you can spay/neuter, so a breeder never has to worry about where his bloodlines will end up. Mostly it's a fear of an unscrupulous "backyard" breeder who just wants to make money. In this scenario, the breeder's name ends up on the registration papers and makes them look bad if the dog ends up in a bad situation or puppies that are subpar (to the breed standard) are produced. So breeders are very fussy (most of the time) about who they sell offspring to--mostly other breeders, btw.

In the really old days, most breeders were very wealthy and had hundreds of dogs in their kennels--it was a rich man's sport. And yes, culling was done--maybe it still is, but I've never known anyone to do it. Over time, show dogs started to become more available to the average person, so now almost all show dogs come from small home kennels of very average people--it's nearly impossible to make any money as a dog breeder. If you break even, you're doing good. Puppy mills are the only way to make at least some money, but let's not even go there. They are the worst places to buy puppies, as most people know. Next worst is a pet shop, who buys puppies from the millers. Reputable breeders are the only way to go for a quality dog. Same with snakes for the most part, I'd say.

With the snakes, at least you have a market for wholesaling. Maybe that is the best way to protect your lines, as they are sold as pets, and most pets will not be bred--? I would personally not feed unwanted offspring to a "dragon".
 
Lynnea said:
Just picking up the end of this thread and reading the last few posts. In comparing it to show dog breeding (I bred and showed Pekingese for years as a small hobby kennel), it is very similar thinking to Vinman. However, with the dogs you can spay/neuter, so a breeder never has to worry about where his bloodlines will end up. Mostly it's a fear of an unscrupulous "backyard" breeder who just wants to make money. In this scenario, the breeder's name ends up on the registration papers and makes them look bad if the dog ends up in a bad situation or puppies that are subpar (to the breed standard) are produced. So breeders are very fussy (most of the time) about who they sell offspring to--mostly other breeders, btw.

In the really old days, most breeders were very wealthy and had hundreds of dogs in their kennels--it was a rich man's sport. Over time, show dogs started to become more available to the average person, so now almost all show dogs come from small home kennels of very average people--it's nearly impossible to make any money as a dog breeder. If you break even, you're doing good. Puppy mills are the only way to make at least some money, but let's not even go there. They are the worst places to buy puppies, as most people know. Next worst is a pet shop, who buys puppies from the millers. Reputable breeders are the only way to go for a quality dog. Same with snakes for the most part, I'd say.

With the snakes, at least you have a market for wholesaling. Maybe that is the best way to protect your lines, as they are sold as pets, and most pets will not be bred--? I would personally not feed unwanted offspring to a "dragon".
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Very well put . I have given some snakes to people as pets that were big bucks.they were multi hets. Some I did neuter,I cant do it to the female snakes.
I'n talking about a new gene mutation that no one else has. You have to protect you investment of time and money. I'm not talking about a hobbiest point of view it is a professional business point of view. You have to make sure you are the only one with the morph if you want to make money
 
Rambling on, here... Of course, with dogs, expenses with upkeep, showing and breeding (vet) is what keeps one from making any sort of income--it's a hobby. The very wealthy are the ones who hire the handlers and their dogs go to shows every weekend--you can't imagine how much money these people spend campaigning just one dog.

However, I think ultimately the proliferation of breeders is what allows the breed to expand and improve. It's very aggravating to know a top dog you want to breed to is not available to you--protection of the bloodline. But that, I think, leads to diminishment of the breed in the long run. So what do you care more about--yourself or the big picture?
 
Fair play to Vin, he always gets me to think outside of the box,,,,,,,
Every one is putting forward a great argument, but Vin is bringing up some interesting points.....
Mice forums probably hate us for feeding their POTM.
My mate breeds snakes to feed to some King cobras that are his real babies...... It all depends on which side of the fence you view it from.....
If I had a retirement gene in my pocket, would I exploite it Now that is a question I play with daily, while dreaming...LOL
 
Vinman said:
Very well put . I have given some snakes to people as pets that were big bucks.they were multi hets. Some I did neuter,I cant do it to the female snakes.
I'n talking about a new gene mutation that no one else has. You have to protect you investment of time and money. I'm not talking about a hobbiest point of view it is a professional business point of view. You have to make sure you are the only one with the morph if you want to make money
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying. So my question is, at what point do you make offspring available for sale? If your prices are high enough, then the truly serious breeder will pay your price. That's my theory, anyway!
 
Strange that two threads, that are so different in context, can both get the same answer.....
Every night it's given away, so if you wan't to pay 3.7 million..... Carry on....
 
Lynnea said:
I understand what you're saying. So my question is, at what point do you make offspring available for sale? If your prices are high enough, then the truly serious breeder will pay your price. That's my theory, anyway!
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If I were to have such luck . I would post pics as soon as I had the mutation. Then I woukld see how many people had a craving for the animal. I would cross it to a normal or a single homo corn. If it was a male then I would also breed it one of my multi homo animals and keep only the best from the 2 clutches and cull off the rest . Since I dont have a lot of room I would save onnly 3.4 of each cross with 1 male from each cross on a low matince diet as back up males incase one of my keepers die. I would only put up about 20 homo animals the first year if some interst was shown . I would see how this goes. At the same token if I only sold one or two then after 6 months off you other animals they go. I would keep them on a mantance diet after the first month of life.
 
snakewispera snr said:
Fair play to Vin, he always gets me to think outside of the box,,,,,,,
Every one is putting forward a great argument, but Vin is bringing up some interesting points.....
Mice forums probably hate us for feeding their POTM.
My mate breeds snakes to feed to some King cobras that are his real babies...... It all depends on which side of the fence you view it from.....
If I had a retirement gene in my pocket, would I exploite it Now that is a question I play with daily, while dreaming...LOL
Click to expand...


Well put Mike. It is one thing when you got 20 amels you dont need and whole sale them off it is another thing when yu ae the only one on the block that has the gene. Now if I lived in FL or some of the southren stats I would release them into the wild. That is not the case. I live in NYC. Now If I have to cull what do you do with the bodies. I feed them off to the dragons . I have to feed live because most wont eat them dead. they love them and it is a food they eat in nature maybe not corns snakes but they do eat baby snakes
 
Vinman said:
Well put Mike. It is one thing when you got 20 amels you dont need and whole sale them off it is another thing when yu ae the only one on the block that has the gene. Now if I lived in FL or some of the southren stats I would release them into the wild. That is not the case. I live in NYC. Now If I have to cull what do you do with the bodies. I feed them off to the dragons . I have to feed live because most wont eat them dead. they love them and it is a food they eat in nature maybe not corns snakes but they do eat baby snakes
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Bloody hell Vin, theres only so much the rodeo clown can do to save the star cowboy.... Give us a break
 
it true dragons dont get no where the diet they get in nature. all my deforms I get feed off. It is very good for the breeding females I breed roaches to give them another food item. I try to give them a selection. Now I also feed off deformed dragons to snakes . Some times they get picked on or are not doing well so off to the snakes they go . I have used them for senting pinkies and some snake ate so it is a cycle if life here
 
Vinman said:
Now if I lived in FL or some of the southren stats I would release them into the wild.
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As a biologist, I say that this is thankfully becoming illegal in more and more areas. I'd like to see it made illegal throughout the entire US. Captive animals (whether they are dogs, cats, snakes, rats, or birds) do NOT belong released back into the wild.

LBoz said:
My children are hungry and my truck is in the shop so I can't get to the grocery. I just put my dog in the freezer. Hope everyone is ok with that?
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Smart move. Save money & feed the kids. Need recipes?
 
I would buy multi hets from Rich's surpluse breeders list and added them to some morphes thst I all ready had .


Hmm.... and boy that business move goes against all your theories. I guess in you eyes that was pretty dumb for Rich Z to sell you those. And in that case, why would you buy animals from a breeder when they are selling surplus instead of culling them?

If that ruins the market than why did you invest in them? This is completely hypocritical.
 
carol said:
I would buy multi hets from Rich's surpluse breeders list and added them to some morphes thst I all ready had .


Hmm.... and boy that business move goes against all your theories. I guess in you eyes that was pretty dumb for Rich Z to sell you those. And in that case, why would you buy animals from a breeder when they are selling surplus instead of culling them?

If that ruins the market than why did you invest in them? This is completely hypocritical.
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Carol I got the parents of the HLB by breeding a pr of subs I got off rich for 300 bucks?? I have also crossed RZ stock to mine and got some nice suprize out of the f2 hatchlings
 
Vinman said:
Carol I got the parents of the HLB by breeding a pr of subs I got off rich for 300 bucks?? I have also crossed RZ stock to mine and got some nice suprize out of the f2 hatchlings
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Ya too bad they are worthless because Rich sold to them you instead of culling them.
 
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