Breeding as a career?

[Nanci]

Another bonus to a career in the health care field is with the current state of medical insurance, you don't have to worry! If you work in a hospital, you are going to have medical care.

I filed my taxes last week, and they are already asking about health care- to "prepare" us for next year, but really to scope out it a person is going to get a fine next year, when we are required by law to be insured. I just checked the box that indicated I was insured by my employer, and that was the end of the questions.

 

[NiklasTyreso]

I suppose it just takes a lot of time and patience and money to really get enough snakes and equipment to make a living.. that seems to be the concensus.

Get enough of snakes? Are you sure there are a demand for your snakes?

Kathy Love were among the best on selectively breeding the best to best to get even better offspring.

Rich Zuchowski was extremely good at finding different snakes and prove out their genetics, so that he could be the first one selling new morphs.

If you are better than most in the market, in some aspect, then you can succeed.

 

[Merkavich]

I would also love to breed snakes as my main source of income, but I know where I live it would never happen lol.

However the few breeders I know of that do breed snakes as their primary income, have been around for a long time and are well established, and know seemingly everything about genetics. And judging by the amount of snakes they have, they probably work ridiculous amounts of hours, and also spend a lot of money to make the money.

Myself, personally, I have a medical condition that makes working in certain environments very difficult, so I choose to work at a horse farm as it's enjoyable, and I'm not around too many people lol. These restrictions are also why being a full time breeder of something I love would be awesome, but realistically, there isn't much of a market around here in terms of buyers for corns. The expos are just a sea of Ball pythons here, so this is definitely something to be considered for anyone who wants to sell what they breed.

 

[rich333]

Like the old adage ..... It takes money to make money!

 

[Chip]

Can't go wrong with a pet store! Lol. And that would be owning your own business (double-whammy!) You could be the corn snake expert in your area!

As a guy who did that, I have to be perfectly honest: I would not do it over.

 

[kathylove]

I had a very small, one person pet shop in Wisconsin back in the early '70s. That was before all of the anti pet regulation, so it was easier to deal with bureaucracy back then. It never really made any money. I had a full time night job to support it. I am glad I did it at such a young age as I learned a lot. I also had a small reptile exhibit in the Smoky Mountains in 1979. Learned a lot there, too.

The only way I would do a pet shop type business again is if I found the perfect shop, maybe an aquarium shop, that I could reach a deal with and lease a section to do a sort of "boutique reptile shop" inside of another business. It would be a rather complex deal to allow me autonomy to do what I want within specified limits, but use their people to do my sales on slow days, with me being available by phone. Then I would come in on busy days myself. It will probably never happen because it would have to be the perfect location, with the type of noncompeting, but quality, shop I want to be associated with. And it would have to be run by somebody I can work with, who has the space and the interest, in doing something unusual like this. Something to think about, even though I am not likely to find all of the conditions necessary all at the same time.

I would consider doing another small exhibit, but it would also have to be the right location, and seasonal, since I don't want to be tied up 7 days per week for the entire year. And I don't want to deal with a bunch of employees. That is also why I would not do a regular pet shop. We used to be part owners of Glades Herp in the early '90s. We had pretty good employees, but having employees is kind of like being parents. Their problems are your problems. Been there - done that, lol! Other people may enjoy those responsibilities, especially when younger and just starting out. But these points are all something to consider before making important decisions.

Let me say that I do not regret any of the herp businesses I have been involved in. They all allowed me to learn A LOT about animals, business, myself, and to make some great contacts and friendships that have lasted a lifetime. Sometimes you actually have to DO some job or business to find out if it is really for you. Just go in with as much knowledge and reflection of your own needs and desires as possible so your eyes are open to all of the likely positives and negatives of the situation before making a large time or financial commitment.

 

[Chip]

Let me say that I do not regret any of the herp businesses I have been involved in. They all allowed me to learn A LOT about animals, business, myself, and to make some great contacts and friendships that have lasted a lifetime. Sometimes you actually have to DO some job or business to find out if it is really for you. Just go in with as much knowledge and reflection of your own needs and desires as possible so your eyes are open to all of the likely positives and negatives of the situation before making a large time or financial commitment.

I don't "regret" it, as much as I was in a much better place 6 years ago (before opening) financially than I am now. I've worked 50 to 60 hour weeks watching my savings go from almost a quarter million to being in the red. With the only vacation in that time being a 4 day weekend to Daytona.
But I have learned a ton, and made some lifelong friends through the store. One of the things I've learned is that it is very difficult to make a go of a pet shop in the current climate. Customers are savvy, and most will buy from wherever is cheapest. It is very difficult to be cheapest and still pay your rent. Markup on anything with a plug is almost nothing these days, usually 25% or less. These items used to have a 100% markup when I worked for pet shops in the 80's and 90's. And livestock is a whole other issue. If you keep it long, you lose money. And there are a lot of ethical dilemmas.

The only way I would do a pet shop type business again is if I found the perfect shop, maybe an aquarium shop, that I could reach a deal with and lease a section to do a sort of "boutique reptile shop" inside of another business.

Hmm... :laugh:

 

[Kyle M]

Hope you all don't think I disappeared. I'm just reading everything everyone has to say and taking it all in. I don't have much in the way of replies, just thanks. Many thanks. If I had just stuck to my books I probably would've jumped headfirst into a really bad idea lol.

 

[kathylove]

Yes - nothing like real world experience and life stories to give you some ideas, lol!

One thing I meant to mention but forgot: I was an LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse) during the '80s. Getting that license allowed me to pay the bills while hubby worked full time (and I worked part time) developing our rodent and reptile home breeding biz back then. Without that steady income, I have no idea how we would have been able to start a business, since we did not have outside funds or savings to start.

 

[daddio207]

As a guy who did that, I have to be perfectly honest: I would not do it over.

I did it in the 90's and would not do it over either.
I was too diverse. I specialized in reptiles but also sold birds, puppies, kittens, fish (60 tanks), small animals plus the usual supplies and grooming.
Had an on call veterinarian too. Years later she thanked me for giving her enough income so she could open her own practice. I was like "Really !?!?"

The only way I would do a pet shop type business again is if I found the perfect shop, maybe an aquarium shop, that I could reach a deal with and lease a section to do a sort of "boutique reptile shop" inside of another business.
I would consider doing another small exhibit,

I've been toying with the same idea with a chain here in New England. Since they already sell reptile supplies, I would do the "live" side, selling and exhibiting reptiles and amphibians. The real money is in the sale of setups and supplies but if you expand the "live" side through out the chain then it might do ok. Still doubtful you could support yourself with it but might be just "FUN".
I wouldn't pay the store anything. Their gain is to get a more diverse selection of reptiles. They don't have to take care of them but still get all the profitable sales of the supplies.
We already do a exhibition day in a few of their stores to promote the reptile industry in general and show off the "cool" reptiles you can legally have in Maine that you rarely see in stores.

 

[Chip]

I want to add too, that making a career out of your hobby is sometimes a way to kill a perfectly fun hobby. I LOVED reef aquariums when I opened my store more than firearms, corn snakes, or any of my hobbies. I had 13 tanks in my house when I opened. After opening an aquarium store focused on reefs, and cleaning 135 aquariums every week, I no longer have a saltwater tank in my home at all. Never say never, but I have no interest in one currently, either.

Looking at your original post, I noticed you specify corn snakes. I would suggest more valuable, less prolific, harder to breed/raise species if you hope to monetize your hobby. I love my corns, but they are really tough to pay their own bills with, let alone mine. They simply breed too easily and mutations lose value too quickly. And mice aren't any cheaper because they are corn snakes! In other words, if you are feeding a $1000 gila a $1 mouse a week, that will cut into the value far less than feeding $1 a week to a $20 corn. With inexpensive livestock, it's a game of hot potato -you have to get rid of it fast to keep from losing money. And you won't want to send your babies home with some of the people with $20 in their pocket, either!

Doing something you enjoy is impossible to put a price tag on. It can get a little difficult to enjoy something once it becomes work though, so it's important to find that balance. I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

 

[Kyle M]

I want to add too, that making a career out of your hobby is sometimes a way to kill a perfectly fun hobby. I LOVED reef aquariums when I opened my store more than firearms, corn snakes, or any of my hobbies. I had 13 tanks in my house when I opened. After opening an aquarium store focused on reefs, and cleaning 135 aquariums every week, I no longer have a saltwater tank in my home at all. Never say never, but I have no interest in one currently, either.

Looking at your original post, I noticed you specify corn snakes. I would suggest more valuable, less prolific, harder to breed/raise species if you hope to monetize your hobby. I love my corns, but they are really tough to pay their own bills with, let alone mine. They simply breed too easily and mutations lose value too quickly. And mice aren't any cheaper because they are corn snakes! In other words, if you are feeding a $1000 gila a $1 mouse a week, that will cut into the value far less than feeding $1 a week to a $20 corn. With inexpensive livestock, it's a game of hot potato -you have to get rid of it fast to keep from losing money. And you won't want to send your babies home with some of the people with $20 in their pocket, either!

Doing something you enjoy is impossible to put a price tag on. It can get a little difficult to enjoy something once it becomes work though, so it's important to find that balance. I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

Yeah, I've already experienced the death of one passion... and it's because of a bad teacher and a lack of anyone interested in that particular subject in my area. I don't want that to happen again. I think I would definitely like to try my hand at breeding, regardless of whether or not it brings me financial success. I've had quite a few talks with my father about all of this--he's the business-minded one in the family--and he actually wanted me to get a more expensive animal, or more expensive corn (kinda why I got a tessera.. not that I'm not happy with the little guy, he's beautiful and I wouldn't want any other snake, but my original preference was an anery.. and to my father that meant cheap.. and I think you can figure where the thought process goes from there). My dad is the one funding my business at the moment... if you can call it business? My embryonic business I may end up only keeping a couple corns for breeding and selling babies to make a little extra money. I always figured I wouldn't be able to make a ton of money breeding corns, but I didn't think it would be such a razor's edge sort of deal. No plans for me are 100% yet. All I know for sure is that I absolute am going to be doing something with animals for the rest of my life, no question. If I have to squeeze by (not that I want to) doing some work that's unrelated to caring for animals, then what can I do, right?

Again, and forever, thank you all. I greatly appreciate the insight.

 

[Kyle M]

I didn't even finish my thought regarding my padre.

I was going to say that I may be lucky enough to convince him to help start getting into more expensive animals. Don't get me wrong, I am well aware of how fortunate I am to have ANYONE willing to give me even a penny to dabble around in something like this, and I never ever take it for granted. I spend 75% of my time either reading or thinking about corn snakes, and reptiles/animals in general, and how I can make something out of the gifts the universe has bestowed me. (Sorry for the poetry... astronomy was my other thing lol). I think if humans were the only animals here I wouldn't have any purpose or direction lol.

 

[kathylove]

Wow! You sound a lot like me when I was your age. I knew from a very young age that I wanted to work with animals - almost any animals! In junior high school, I really wanted to be a vet. But when I realized how much school was required (and science, which required math, which I hated!), I decided to think about other careers. I seriously thought about dog grooming or becoming a farrier, since I also loved horses. Of course I thought about working in a zoo. But those positions seemed to require college degrees, and I was tired of school. And I have always had an entrepreneurial streak, anyway.

I also know what you mean about teachers. I had always loved writing (and reading, too, of course). I did a lot of writing as a child and teenager, and even thought of a career doing some sort of writing. But I had an English teacher in 11th grade who really soured me on it. Although I still enjoy writing, it was never quite the same after that year. But I have always had a lot of interest in education, and spent a lot of time giving talks about herps at schools and other places. I think it might have been a good move for me to become a teacher, and then try to work in the education department of a zoo. I would have loved that! But I don't think I could stand to work in the public school system. I have known too many teachers who did that, and their stories are awful.

Starting out in adulthood with all of the choices before you is an exciting - and scary - time of life. The possibilities are overwhelming, but then so are the uncertainties. It is kind of fun to live through it again vicariously, bringing back some of that excitement from so long ago, lol!

Good luck in your journey!

 

[Nanci]

You can make anery tesseras, you know...It would take two generations unless you bought a female tessera heterozygous anery. But still- they are beautiful and the tessera market isa not at all saturated yet.

 

[Kyle M]

You can make anery tesseras, you know...It would take two generations unless you bought a female tessera heterozygous anery. But still- they are beautiful and the tessera market isa not at all saturated yet.

That's actually what I want to do. I want to make some type B anery tesseras and later on maybe play around with caramel and gold dust in the line.

 

[Nanci]

Ghost tesseras are gorgeous, too. REALLY gorgeous.

 

[Chip]

...and the tessera market isa not at all saturated yet.

Really? That hasn't been my experience the last two years.

 

[Nanci]

Well, for "normal" tesseras, at the current rate, (not the what we hoped for higher price!) there are still plenty of people who are only now getting their first tessera. You sure don't see the sale section filled with morphs.

I advertised _one_ normal female hatchling for sale a month or so ago and she was gone within hours. No hets.

So as a $125-$175 snake, I see them holding their value well. Single morphs like amel or anery have been priced in the $250-$350 range. The rare morphs are in the $600-$1000 range. For hatchlings.

 

[Chip]

I've been sitting on a few, but don't really advertise. The hardest time I had moving anything was normal tesseras the last two years.