wasuslitherin
WARNING: I can be.....
Does anybody have butter cinder? Have pictures? Or know what they will look like? Are they a new morph? Walter Smith has Amel het Butter cinder.
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BUTTER CINDER
- Thread starter wasuslitherin
- Start date
wasuslitherin
WARNING: I can be.....
AFAIK? And I did not know Pepermint was made up of that! Cool!
wasuslitherin
WARNING: I can be.....
Ohhh, Gotcha!
martin-bernstein
Anything Lava!
Nanci, or anyone else for that matter, do you know when cinder became available on the market? Didn't the morph appear in a wild caught specimen in the Keys? Do you know who caught it and who bred it and spread it? Any other background info on the morph would be much appreciated. Really love cinders...
Nanci
Alien Lover
Quoting Rich Z. from his Serpenco website:
Ashy Corn Snake (C Anerythristic)
This is something new. A new Anerythristic gene! Some people have referred to this as a 'Z' corn, and the name "Cinder" is also being used for some stock that is presumably the same genetic line as the Ashy. I'm kind of leaning towards Ashy Corn myself, the more I see of them. Probably pretty appropriate being they come from the same general locale of the Ashy Gecko in the Florida Keys. And if you compare the two, you can see a pretty close resemblance in the appearance.
Yep! Definitely a new gene from all the breeding tests I have done.
In 2004 I bred an animal that is proven het for this particular gene to several Charcoals and several A Anerythristics. NONE of the babies came out as being Charcoals nor Anerythristics, which is leading me to strongly believe that this is indeed a new anerythristic looking genetic type. In 2005 I bred two C Anerythristic males to Silver Queen Ghosts (based on A Anerythrism) and Charcoal Ghosts (based on Charcoal) and in NO occasions did I get any results that would disprove this being a new gene. None.
Very limited numbers will be available this year. To be honest about it, I have been outcrossing this line extensively for the last few years, and not made much effort to produce many for sale. I think the potential for future projects just greatly outweighs the monetary gains of selling of this new genetic stock prematurely. I REALLY want to see what some genetic combos look like with this one combined to them!
Het animals will most certainly be offered as well, as I have been combining this gene with other genetic traits all along.
For an "anerythristic" looking animal, these guys are rather interesting looking. Seems to be two different flavors of them. On one hand you get pretty much a gray looking animal with little or no other coloration but shades of gray. Then on the other hand, some will have rich mahogany blotches to them on the more typically seen gray background. At this point, there is no evidence for or against there being another genetic type floating around in there. If there is, it is nothing that has jumped out in me from the normal Upper Keys stock that have been part and parcel with this development. But perhaps outcrossing into other genetic types will give a clearer picture of what is going on. Or maybe not....
Body structure is kind of odd on these guys. Somewhat high ridged backbones in some examples. I've noted that the babies seem to have high metabolisms and need feeding more often than other lines, so perhaps this is just my fault for not keeping them on a more progressive feeding schedule into adulthood. But that would be tough to do around here, anyway.
As for the history of how this cultivar came about:
This genetic line came from a single animal that I got from a guy and his son who were at the ONLY Birmingham show we have ever attended. This was 1996, I believe. He said he lived in the keys and was visiting the area, had a gravid female corn he said came from the keys and wanted to trade me one of our leopard geckos for it. It was an interesting looking enough corn snake that I accepted the trade.
That animal was gravid and laid a clutch of eggs that season, but I do not think I kept any of them. I had wanted to breed hypomelanism into the Keys line, so the next season, I bred her with one of my hypos. And, of course, kept some of the babies back from that project.
Of course, I didn't breed one of those sons back to her for a few years as they grew and matured, but I don't recall what I bred her with in the interim. So figuring it was probably two or three years later before breeding back one of her sons to her. The hypos that came from breeding the het hypos together were nothing special, so I was about ready to call that project a complete bust. Just happened to have a couple of her sons around, and didn't have anything else special that I wanted to breed the original female with. So what the heck, I bred one of her son's back to her. That's when those first "anerythristic" looking animals appeared. Serendipity at work, yet again. And of course, I had already sold off most of those het hypos (likely carrying this new gene as well) along the line....
At the time, they looked more like Charcoals than anything else, but there was a slight difference to them that became more pronounced with age. And as it turned out, subsequent test breedings proved them to NOT be Charcoal nor 'A' Anerythrism at all. Well that's just ducky! Just what we need, another anerythristic looking gene........
And for the record, I have heard there are some people who believe this line is a hybrid of some sort, regardless of any evidence to back up that claim. But lately this seems to be the battle cry for quite a few people when something new arises genetically in the corn snakes, it seems. Personally, I don't believe it for an instant, if for no other reason than the argument FOR it being a hybrid just doesn't hold water.
Ashy Corn Snake (C Anerythristic)
This is something new. A new Anerythristic gene! Some people have referred to this as a 'Z' corn, and the name "Cinder" is also being used for some stock that is presumably the same genetic line as the Ashy. I'm kind of leaning towards Ashy Corn myself, the more I see of them. Probably pretty appropriate being they come from the same general locale of the Ashy Gecko in the Florida Keys. And if you compare the two, you can see a pretty close resemblance in the appearance.
Yep! Definitely a new gene from all the breeding tests I have done.
In 2004 I bred an animal that is proven het for this particular gene to several Charcoals and several A Anerythristics. NONE of the babies came out as being Charcoals nor Anerythristics, which is leading me to strongly believe that this is indeed a new anerythristic looking genetic type. In 2005 I bred two C Anerythristic males to Silver Queen Ghosts (based on A Anerythrism) and Charcoal Ghosts (based on Charcoal) and in NO occasions did I get any results that would disprove this being a new gene. None.
Very limited numbers will be available this year. To be honest about it, I have been outcrossing this line extensively for the last few years, and not made much effort to produce many for sale. I think the potential for future projects just greatly outweighs the monetary gains of selling of this new genetic stock prematurely. I REALLY want to see what some genetic combos look like with this one combined to them!
Het animals will most certainly be offered as well, as I have been combining this gene with other genetic traits all along.
For an "anerythristic" looking animal, these guys are rather interesting looking. Seems to be two different flavors of them. On one hand you get pretty much a gray looking animal with little or no other coloration but shades of gray. Then on the other hand, some will have rich mahogany blotches to them on the more typically seen gray background. At this point, there is no evidence for or against there being another genetic type floating around in there. If there is, it is nothing that has jumped out in me from the normal Upper Keys stock that have been part and parcel with this development. But perhaps outcrossing into other genetic types will give a clearer picture of what is going on. Or maybe not....
Body structure is kind of odd on these guys. Somewhat high ridged backbones in some examples. I've noted that the babies seem to have high metabolisms and need feeding more often than other lines, so perhaps this is just my fault for not keeping them on a more progressive feeding schedule into adulthood. But that would be tough to do around here, anyway.
As for the history of how this cultivar came about:
This genetic line came from a single animal that I got from a guy and his son who were at the ONLY Birmingham show we have ever attended. This was 1996, I believe. He said he lived in the keys and was visiting the area, had a gravid female corn he said came from the keys and wanted to trade me one of our leopard geckos for it. It was an interesting looking enough corn snake that I accepted the trade.
That animal was gravid and laid a clutch of eggs that season, but I do not think I kept any of them. I had wanted to breed hypomelanism into the Keys line, so the next season, I bred her with one of my hypos. And, of course, kept some of the babies back from that project.
Of course, I didn't breed one of those sons back to her for a few years as they grew and matured, but I don't recall what I bred her with in the interim. So figuring it was probably two or three years later before breeding back one of her sons to her. The hypos that came from breeding the het hypos together were nothing special, so I was about ready to call that project a complete bust. Just happened to have a couple of her sons around, and didn't have anything else special that I wanted to breed the original female with. So what the heck, I bred one of her son's back to her. That's when those first "anerythristic" looking animals appeared. Serendipity at work, yet again. And of course, I had already sold off most of those het hypos (likely carrying this new gene as well) along the line....
At the time, they looked more like Charcoals than anything else, but there was a slight difference to them that became more pronounced with age. And as it turned out, subsequent test breedings proved them to NOT be Charcoal nor 'A' Anerythrism at all. Well that's just ducky! Just what we need, another anerythristic looking gene........
And for the record, I have heard there are some people who believe this line is a hybrid of some sort, regardless of any evidence to back up that claim. But lately this seems to be the battle cry for quite a few people when something new arises genetically in the corn snakes, it seems. Personally, I don't believe it for an instant, if for no other reason than the argument FOR it being a hybrid just doesn't hold water.
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Yeah, this is the pair, so fingers crossed on hitting that 1/16 !!!
Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Attachments
Kethryanne
New member
Hmm,how did these babies turn out? Any pictures available. Just seen an ashy hatchling so was trying to figure out what it was.
ghosthousecorns
Well-known member
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107532&highlight=Buttermint
The first I ever heard of Cinder/Ashy was when Carol H. produced a "weird ghost" that turned out to be a cinder that she subsequently traced back to a serpenco snake. So I think she deserves at least some credit for the discovery of the gene?
The first I ever heard of Cinder/Ashy was when Carol H. produced a "weird ghost" that turned out to be a cinder that she subsequently traced back to a serpenco snake. So I think she deserves at least some credit for the discovery of the gene?
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
Walter did hit the jackpot and produced a buttermint as well as a peppermint!