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Conclusion of full-collection Crypto Testing

Kokopelli

Kokopelli

Resident Boa Fanatic
Hey everyone,

So... the outcome is not so favorable... only 3(out of 15) of my collection was not infected.

Not all of the infected animals were euthanized... 2 I am keeping because I care deeply for them(Solaris, and Ember the Leopard). One is quite valuable and I am trying to test after he received a session of Reptaid(Blood Boa)... if he is still infected I will have him euthanized.

The remaining two are females I am keeping- if I do not manage to cure the Leopard completely, I will see if it is possible to breed him to a female(which is why I am keeping infected females) and salvage a few not-infected babies as the parasite does not pass on to the young.

So that's it really...
I have 4 uninfected animals now... and I will continue with a more hobby-oriented approach.

Truth be told, I think that an insane percentage of the animals in our collection are asymptomatic carriers of the disease.

So was I right or wrong in euthanizing some of the animals? I know many arguments for and against, and I did what I thought was best.
In the long run I may discover that most snakes harbor the parasite and there's really no way to really cultivate it.
 
Sorry to hear the results, Oren. I discussed this a few years ago with a couple of long-term members and the consensus was the asymptomatic carrier scenario. We were discussing 'mystery' deaths where a seemingly healthy snake dies during it's first brumation, after first breeding, after transportation, after being sold and speculating that many of those could be due to crypto being endemic and causing symptoms after the snake was under systemic stress.
As you know, for a parasite to be successful, it mustn't be too lethal. It mustn't kill a high proportion of its hosts too quickly. So if crypto can infect and spread through collections without causing overt symptoms, it's a more successful parasite than we bargain for when we buy and raise these animals.
With the egg membrane being semi-permeable, is there not a chance that fecal contamination from the female as she lays could potentially infect offspring? Or, if there is live birth, potential infection from neonates being in contact with oocites shed by the female?
 
diamondlil said:
With the egg membrane being semi-permeable, is there not a chance that fecal contamination from the female as she lays could potentially infect offspring? Or, if there is live birth, potential infection from neonates being in contact with oocites shed by the female?
Click to expand...

It is a fact that snakes can by asymptomatic and harbor the parasite for years and years. I won't be surprised if carriers can die of old age if they are cared for.

Yes, definitely- the risk of infection is ever present though the contact can only occur in the Cloaca- when the neonates are being born or the when the snakes hatch.
The reason for this is that it's a digestive tract parasite, it can only infect an animal if it is ingested- there's no contact between the embryos and the Dame's digestive tract until the moment of birth.

Therefore, if you manage to remove the offspring in time, you have a shot at getting some none-infected babies.

This is not guranteed though, which is why I will be sending fecal tests for several babies as an indication for the litter and continue according to the results.

This is very relevant since Solaris is due to give birth like... this week.

This parasite "fights dirty" and there's no chance for me to completely annihlate the chance of infection even with the animals I have that tested negative for the parasite.

There's a limit to what we can do- I think I've done and am doing more than most. I've had several people tell me to just sell off the carriers and I refused to do so.
It's a financial loss, and an emotional one... but integrity means more than that to me.

Beyond that... every single snake that enters the snake room undergoes fecal testing. I also use single use gloves on all the infected animals. The infected and not-infected animals are situated in seperate rooms.... and I use a steam gun to disinfect any viv a

That's all I can do.
 
My heart goes out to you Oren. If I could reach across the miles between us to shake your hand I would, your integrity is something to aspire to and inspire keepers.
 
Thank you,
I'm not posting in order to score points really,
First reason is that it's a form of venting and sharing, and second is because Crypto is a serious threat which should brought to as much awareness as possible.
 
I know Oren. At least it means we can be with you in thought and offer at least words of support
 
Oren no one could think you were "trying to score points" man. So unfortunate, but really stand up of you to post all this results of the testings and having the fortitude to put down some beautiful animals.

Not much to say really :(. I'm glad you have decided to stay involved in the community, and don't rule out making another go at what you were attempting to do. Big or small, a setback is still just a setback.
 
Oren, I am so sorry to hear about this. I had hoped that it would come out better for you. I hope that your coming babies all escape the parasite.
 
I'm sorry to hear that Oren - my heart goes out to you.

Thanks so much for your integrity. We need keepers like you and I wish you better luck for the future.
 
So sorry you had to lose most of your collection - I was hoping for much better news!

I hope you can be there when babies are born. Maybe taking them from mom right away and washing them thoroughly (maybe even spray them down with ammonia?) before they can eat or drink anything will spare them the infection. If that works, you will be able to save the genes of some of your most important projects. You are really overdue for some good luck soon!
 
kathylove said:
So sorry you had to lose most of your collection - I was hoping for much better news!

I hope you can be there when babies are born. Maybe taking them from mom right away and washing them thoroughly (maybe even spray them down with ammonia?) before they can eat or drink anything will spare them the infection. If that works, you will be able to save the genes of some of your most important projects. You are really overdue for some good luck soon!
Click to expand...

Ammonia would probably kill them,
Rinsing them thoroughly would suffice as long as I catch it on time.
We'll see... It'll be alright, I think.
And yes, I hope that keeping strict quarantine and high hygiene standards will allow me to preserve some of the more crucial genetics.

Thank you, while I can't say I feel overly fortunate snake-wise... in a way, I learned allot from it... and it can always be worse.

Thank you.
 
Oren, I'm sorry to hear about the outcome. I have faith that you will overcome this, & I hope that you end up with most, if not all, of the babies unaffected.
 
I am so sorry to hear this. You had such beautiful healthy looking boas and it is very unfortunate and sad that so many ended up having crypto.
 
Oren, I know that you probably thought of this before. But, have you tried contacting everyone that you received snakes from. To warn them that you had crypto in nearly every one of your snakes. That way they can at least look out for their collections and do some tests to see if they may have it in them as well?
 
Outcast said:
Oren, I know that you probably thought of this before. But, have you tried contacting everyone that you received snakes from. To warn them that you had crypto in nearly every one of your snakes. That way they can at least look out for their collections and do some tests to see if they may have it in them as well?
Click to expand...

Of course I have, the moment I got the initial test results for Phoenix that triggered the whole test run.
My friends were affected to some degree, but the positive ratio is better for them... they have yet to test everyone though... I hope they remain unaffected.

As for awareness in the community... I suspect that the big keepers here are aware of the risk(though I don't think they have looked into it to the extent that I have) and simply ignore it...
If I raise the flag, I just give them ammunition- the field here is not very friendly towards one another, and the relatively young keepers here won't really get much from the information.

I tested all of my animals, and if Solaris gives birth, I will test at least a good number of young to conclude if they are infected. Only clean babies will be sold, and I will continue to abide by it... people who will ask me in person, will get all the info they need...

There was a time when I'd go out and tell everyone... but I know how the field behaves here... and I am tired of getting backlashes for trying to contribute...
Mind you, I think this applies to the US as well- aren't you more likely to purchase from a person who acts as if all of his animals are well rather than from someone who have had Crypto?
 
Little off topic, I have read about crypto on here but I would like to read some online articles to learn more about it, if anyone knows any good sites with good info please let me know.
 
Oren, I knew you were the type of person to let others know about your problem. I am sorry that the field over there is so cutthroat.

Personally I would rather buy from someone who is honest about their collection, like you, than someone who pretends everything is OK...

In fact, I almost bought from someone like that a while back, and a friend let me know that their snakes were not as healthy as depicted... I ended up not getting anything for the moment. It turns out that many people who received snakes from this person had them start dying on them for no apparent reason, and this guy has a relatively big name in Corn Snakes... I guess it is why I am glad there is the BOI on fauna.

I am glad that you have friends that are testing their animals as well. Who knows where the initial infestation came from, I hope everything works out.
 
Outcast said:
Oren, I knew you were the type of person to let others know about your problem. I am sorry that the field over there is so cutthroat.

Personally I would rather buy from someone who is honest about their collection, like you, than someone who pretends everything is OK...

In fact, I almost bought from someone like that a while back, and a friend let me know that their snakes were not as healthy as depicted... I ended up not getting anything for the moment. It turns out that many people who received snakes from this person had them start dying on them for no apparent reason, and this guy has a relatively big name in Corn Snakes... I guess it is why I am glad there is the BOI on fauna.

I am glad that you have friends that are testing their animals as well. Who knows where the initial infestation came from, I hope everything works out.
Click to expand...

But that's just it man... don't you see?
Based on rumors, you preferred not to purchase animals from that person- silence is usually the best option marketing-wise.
Few people will dig deeply enough to see if the person really tested his animals and so forth... you are a member in a forum where I write... but had we been strangers?
Isn't it likely that rumors would have circulated and you'd prefer not to take a risk and buy from someone else?

It's like that everywhere sadly.

I know I am testing and keeping any animal I sell clean of Crypto... that's what's important in the long run.
 
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