• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Controversial topic?

I would definitely have the ones I do. 4 of my snakes are pet-only (my young blood, miami, snow, and amel). And considering the rest of my animals, I'm glad that these guys aren't finding me and/or becoming broken expensive things... yet. My future breeders are "drab" but as I'm absolutely in love with aneries and ghosts, they make me happy and I'm looking forward to 15+ years with my gray kids.
 
Shiari said:
I would definitely have the ones I do. 4 of my snakes are pet-only (my young blood, miami, snow, and amel). And considering the rest of my animals, I'm glad that these guys aren't finding me and/or becoming broken expensive things... yet. My future breeders are "drab" but as I'm absolutely in love with aneries and ghosts, they make me happy and I'm looking forward to 15+ years with my gray kids.
Click to expand...

Nothing drab about anery's and ghosts. Infact, two of my fav morphs. I too have an obsession with grey snakes!
 
Me too... I've got a soft spot for anery morphs.. My little Anery motley male is one of my favorites in the collection. Oh, who I am kidding, they're all my favorites!
 
I have at this point read carefully everyone's stances on the original question. I also posted my own opinion.

One question I have is this-- if you've ever sold an animal you no longer wanted, desired, or felt you could care for, then do you have a right to comment about others selling? Regardless the reason? It's drawing lines... and where do you stop? If it's okay to sell your snakes because a bad break up has put the financial stress on you then is it also okay to sell your snakes because of a marriage to a person who doesn't like them? Is it okay to sell them because you want a jet ski or a more expensive car? What if you just found out your wife is pregnant-- with twins??? What if you lose your job? What if you want to take a job that is lower pay, voluntarily?

With regards to the "herp of the moment," well... I bought a crested gecko pair in December of 2007. I enjoy them and have used them in educational situations. I hope at some point to breed them. They are well cared for and live in an appropriate cage. So what if they are the "herp of the moment?" If I can care for them well, then does it really matter?

I guess my point is that each of us has our own reasons for getting into the hobby, and many got into it at an early age. It appears that many of us have once or twice purchased an animal only to find out that it did not meet our needs, goals, or expectations, and have then sold it to a different owner. We each have our own ideas about what is the right or wrong reason to sell an animal. It doesn't mean one is better than the other... just different.

Tara and I debtated this the other day. She made a comment about a person that had put their collection up for sale for a reason she found ridiculous and stupid. I mentioned to her that she had sold a snake once because it was a biter, and yet I have three biters living under my roof who I can't and won't sell because I'm far too attached-- to me, selling a biter is like putting up for adoption the child that wets the bed at night. I may not agree with her decision, but I don't judge Tara for that, and I won't judge anyone else. If you're doing what's right by the animal, that's really all we can ask. :shrugs:
 
I don't think it matters why someone choses to sell an animal, but that they care for the animals they have appropriately and do not buy animals they don't have the financial means to care for. I hate when I read help my animals sick and I have no money for the vet, now that pisses me off, but to sell an animal to purchase another or something else is an individuals on choice. I have been breeding cresteds for 7 years and breed chahouas as well. They are my fav pets of choice, but I sell off older breeding stock for new, or trade for different bloodlines all the time and don't think thats bad at all. Now people who have a habit of buying animals without understanding what they are getting into is maddening, or those that care for them wrong and swear their right, but we all have upgraded at some point or we would all have thousands of animals by now.
 
I discovered forums a few months after getting my first corn but I don't post pictures regularly, only when I get some good pics, or when I feel I haven't posted in a while. I also go long periods without posting on any forums at all. Lately, I've been pretty active though.

Many people would think that because of my age, and being 15 when I got my first corn, my collection now is silly because it's not permanent and is impulsive. I admit to being impulsive sometimes, but who isn't? I have, and continue to make sacrifices for my animals. Last year I stayed in student residences and had to find somewhere for them to live for the year...I had little money but saved as much as I could as I still had to pay for their upkeep, I think I saw them a maximum of twice in the year. I now have a private flat and moved them back to me last June but was limited to where I could go as all student flats are pet free, so I've had to pay more on rent than I would have before. Come June, I have nobody to live with, the lease on this flat ends and I'm limited to where I can go. I won't be expanding my collection for this reason, but I certainly won't be cutting it down.
 
In my opinion, it is "ok" to sell (or give, or trade, etc) your snake away for ANY reason you want to. It would seem pretty silly to sell it because it doesn't match your sofa or something similar (not to mention expensive, if you buy it retail and have to sell it wholesale, or give it away). BUT...if you have decided you don't want it for ANY reason, then you are likely to start ignoring it more, caring for it less, etc, etc. OTOH, if you find a new owner who REALLY wants it, then it will usually be in the animal's best interest to go to the new home.

When it comes to my cats, I have kept one that had "accidents" a lot all over the house, and a couple with a number of medical issues, and some with other problems. That is because I am attached to my individual cats in a way I don't feel with my snakes. I like my snakes a lot, and love to look at them, kind of like aquarium fish. But I am not bonded to them in the same way I am to my cats. And I don't believe that my snakes are capable of bonding to a person in a similar way that cats and dogs can do. So I would feel terrible having to find a new home for a cat unless it was truly necessary. But for snakes, I feel a home that takes care of their obvious needs is all that I am worried about. And I certainly wouldn't judge somebody's motives in selling a snake when that is my business - and I feel that there is no moral reason it SHOULDN'T be a business.

Of course, that is all my own opinion - I know that some people feel just as attached to their snakes as I do to my cats.
 
Hypancistrus said:
I have at this point read carefully everyone's stances on the original question. I also posted my own opinion.

One question I have is this-- if you've ever sold an animal you no longer wanted, desired, or felt you could care for, then do you have a right to comment about others selling? Regardless the reason? It's drawing lines... and where do you stop? If it's okay to sell your snakes because a bad break up has put the financial stress on you then is it also okay to sell your snakes because of a marriage to a person who doesn't like them? Is it okay to sell them because you want a jet ski or a more expensive car? What if you just found out your wife is pregnant-- with twins??? What if you lose your job? What if you want to take a job that is lower pay, voluntarily?

With regards to the "herp of the moment," well... I bought a crested gecko pair in December of 2007. I enjoy them and have used them in educational situations. I hope at some point to breed them. They are well cared for and live in an appropriate cage. So what if they are the "herp of the moment?" If I can care for them well, then does it really matter?

I guess my point is that each of us has our own reasons for getting into the hobby, and many got into it at an early age. It appears that many of us have once or twice purchased an animal only to find out that it did not meet our needs, goals, or expectations, and have then sold it to a different owner. We each have our own ideas about what is the right or wrong reason to sell an animal. It doesn't mean one is better than the other... just different.

Tara and I debtated this the other day. She made a comment about a person that had put their collection up for sale for a reason she found ridiculous and stupid. I mentioned to her that she had sold a snake once because it was a biter, and yet I have three biters living under my roof who I can't and won't sell because I'm far too attached-- to me, selling a biter is like putting up for adoption the child that wets the bed at night. I may not agree with her decision, but I don't judge Tara for that, and I won't judge anyone else. If you're doing what's right by the animal, that's really all we can ask. :shrugs:
Click to expand...
What a great post. I totally agree with not throwing stones when you live in a glass house.
A question for you Elle, if you hadn't found forums, would you have kept Vincent and Tallulah, the first snakes you chose?
 
If I only had animals I wanted to 'show off' to other people, I would get something like a Toucan.

I have the animals I do because I love them, and I felt an attatchment to them (if that makes sense.) Such as my dog Sadie; she was the smallest in her litter and not able to show. The breeder tried to push another "better" dog on me, but I fell in love with her. As for my snakes, Horatio was my first, and I must admit I didn't get him just because I love reptiles, but because I wanted a bloodred. That wasn't the only reason I loved him though. May he rest in peace. :( I must admit, I have posted a "want add" for Blizzards, and/or brightly colored corns, but we're all picky from time to time. Some people don't desire Ghosts, yet I have 6. For some reason, they seemed like they should be 'my' snakes. And as it turns out, they are the sweetest little things and I love them more than air. Thanks Jen P! My Normal, Fiamma, isn't an abbot's or anything but I love her just the same, and show her off like any other person would show of their Fire. It's not about the number of comments you get on your post, but just being proud of the animal I suppose.

I guess it just depends if you're in this for the animals, or for yourself. We're all attracted to pretty things and colors - but there comes a point were you stop caring what other people think and what they love, and start caring about what you think and what you love.

I've actually had a few offers from people who would like to breed one of their males with Fiamma; and I must say, I could never let that happen unless I could afford to keep all the hatchlings. Yet I have nothing against those who breed to sell. If I did, I wouldn't have the snakes I do today. But if it was me, I wouldn't sell any one of my animals unless I had no choice. i.e. if you couldn't afford to care for it anymore, the animal was too aggresive and you couldn't tame it, or it was harmful to your lifestyle in some way.

In a shorter vesion, my answer to this topic is this: I choose my animals based on love. If I didn't have the forums, or the internet or cameras to show them off, I'd be just fine with that. No one should own any living thing based on beauty. Unless it's a plant maybe. :)
 
I have sold snakes on different reasons. This is Monty. I had her since she was a baby. When I bought her I was sure I would never have kids. Well a few years later I became a proud father. Keeping Monty and a baby in the same house was probably not really dangerous. Still I felt the need to sell her to a friend. When children grow up they tend to do things you do not want them to do. Releasing a big burm from it's cage although you thought you had hidden the key very well for example.

HandleMay-05.jpg


Selling Monty was painfull thing to do. But still I am glad I did it. Few years later I had to sell all of my snakes because I went in a divorse. I was homeless sort of speak. I was just not able to bring my snakes with me to the place where I temporarily went to live. Now I have bought my own home and have only a few corns. These I hope I will never have to sell. I will never jugde anyone for selling/ get rid of snakes because of my own experience.
 
Tula_Montage said:
Was having an interesting conversation with a snakie pal the other night, and realised I had been meaning to post a topic like this for a while.

The question is, would you own ALL the animals you currently do if you couldn't share them with others and show them off on the likes of internet forums? It seems that unfortunatley there are some keepers out there who only buy new snakes to impress OTHER people and not actually buying the animals they personally want. I have seen this result in the individual constantly buying and selling snakes to "show off". If forums didn't exist would you still take the same pride in your animals and still want to own every single one you currently do?

I personally believe in buying what you desire without giving a crap about what anyone else will say or think. Heck, you need to look at that animal for the next 15-20 years so why not enjoy what you buy right?

The same goes for corn morphs. Sorry I'm not interested in drab morphs (amels, normals, caramels etc) with the most fantastical glitterystripeybumfluff hets in the world. I'd rather wait and just get the one morph I wanted.

WHY oh why are people so highly influenced by what other people have?! Forums to me, sometimes seem like a big ole mass of snakie peer pressure!
Click to expand...


Considering most my animals are rescues forums have no influence on why I got them. Forums do influence me in what animal I like and want to get but I don't get my animals to show them off. I get them because I really like them and want them. I'm really picky when it comes to getting an animal because it is going to be with me for awhile and I want it to be what I really wanted. I could care less if other people like them or not, it's my animal and like you said I'm the one who has to live with it. It is nice to have a place to share your pictures with other animal lovers especially for me because I don't know anyone here that like reptiles and only have a few friends(which are away at school) so a forum gives me a place to talk to people and share with them the thing I love. The animals I buy I would NEVER sell or get rid of for any reason they are my babies and I love every single one. If forums didn't exist I probably wouldn't have as many animals because I was unaware that some of these animals existed, but I would still love my animals and get other animals even though I couldn't share them with others.

It really ticks me off to think people would buy a living creature to show it off and then sell it for something else. I understand if your a breeder and have to keep selling snakes to make money and get other morphs and stuff like that but if your buying an animal just to show it off then sell it for another animal to show off is just wrong.

(I think that made sense I haven't slept yet so it may not have come out the way I thought, lol.)
 
Tula_Montage said:
WHY oh why are people so highly influenced by what other people have?!
Click to expand...

I don't know...but it applies to WAY more than snakes.

Look at clothes, cars, houses, etc. For many, part of life is keeping up with the neighbors and trying to exceed their worth or status.

For me, all the snakes I own are because I want to work on a project or I want to see what will happen in that pairing. There used to be a few snakes in my collection that were here for the mere purpose of making money but I've realized I can work to make a morph for someone else or work to make a morph for myself and it became real simple to pick which pairs to keep. Why do you think you don't see a lot of my "new" stuff for sale.....it's already been bought by me!!! ;)
 
diamondlil said:
What a great post. I totally agree with not throwing stones when you live in a glass house.
A question for you Elle, if you hadn't found forums, would you have kept Vincent and Tallulah, the first snakes you chose?
Click to expand...

My descision to sell them (back to my ex) was in a bid to get my boas back, like he promised. You know, a swap sort of. But THAT never happened... he got my first two snakes, which I miss terribly, ESPECIALLY Vincent and I was left without my boas :( Nada to do with forums ;)

And like many many others have said, the reason for people parting with their animals is entirely beside the point. The home they go to is all that matters. It's not really anyone else's business WHY people sell things on, although I am sure we all think "oh that was a stupid reason" or "you shouldn't have bought the freakin animal if you can't afford your household bills"!!

I guess we just need to keep an open mind and never think "that wont happen to me".... because NOBODY knows what the future holds. I could be involved in a major accident that leaves me paralysed tomorrow and have to get rid of all my snakes. I guess we don't plan for these things to happen, but they do unfortunately. Who are we to judge? I have in the past, and it gets nobody anywhere...
 
Last edited:
MohrSnakes said:
I don't know...but it applies to WAY more than snakes.

Look at clothes, cars, houses, etc. For many, part of life is keeping up with the neighbors and trying to exceed their worth or status.
Click to expand...

Yep that was the point I was kind of trying to make ;) Mass media is the biggest influence on our culture and trends. It's all about imitation and wanting what other people have.

I don't know, has it reached this point with snakes for some people? I think perhaps maybeee?
 
Tula_Montage said:
And like many many others have said, the reason for people parting with their animals is entirely beside the point. The home they go to is all that matters. It's not really anyone else's business WHY people sell things on, although I am sure we all think "oh that was a stupid reason" or "you shouldn't have bought the freakin animal if you can't afford your household bills"!!

I guess we just need to keep an open mind and never think "that wont happen to me".... because NOBODY knows what the future holds. I could be involved in a major accident that leaves me paralysed tomorrow and have to get rid of all my snakes. I guess we don't plan for these things to happen, but they do unfortunately. Who are we to judge?
Click to expand...

I still think this is a great and interesting topic... but didn't your first post judge people and/or comment on their purchasing habits when they are buying things "just to show off?"

If it's okay to sell an animal, regardless of the reason, then what does it matter if the animal is bought to impress the "girl of the month" and then sold when she shows no interest??? Or the person who buys a cool new morph only to post photos of it online and sell it when "newer and better" comes along?

(For the record, I am really playing devils advocate here... ;) I make an effort not to judge-- but the person I described above would bug me! In fact there's a girl just like that on the fish forum I mod for....)
 
"...Look at clothes, cars, houses, etc. For many, part of life is keeping up with the neighbors and trying to exceed their worth or status..."

Very true! They have even made TV commercials making fun of it - to try to get you to buy even more "stuff", haha!

Up until about 3 years ago, we used to drive a dilapidated old truck (one of the small Toyota trucks). It had been crashed and the front was caved in, and it was pretty old and ugly. But it worked great, and had been given to us by a friend. I think we became almost infamous at the reptile shows for driving that old thing around - all of our friends starting making jokes and kind of making fun of us - all in fun, of course. But I took a sort of perverse pride in that old truck - looked terrible, drove great, and was free!! How many other vendors drove a free vehicle to the show, lol?

However, the A/C finally went out, and wasn't worth fixing with other problems looming, so it has now been retired to a farm truck (moving stuff around the ol' homestead). Now we have a middle aged minivan, just like everyone else - boring, but looks better (and the a/c works - important in Florida!). I kind of like a little individuality (and I like free, too!).

But of course, "keeping up with the neighbors" happens with all other kinds of possessions, so I am sure it is a factor in herp keeping too. I suspect it is more important for younger people still looking for their identity. Hopefully, by the time you reach 30 or 40 or so, you have begun to figure out who you are, and don't need to impress people as much with possessions. But - different people mature at different rates. And everyone probably enjoys a little showing off of something they worked hard for, so I guess there is a little bit of that in all of us.
 
I love playing Devils Advocate ;)

The initial topic wasn't about me judging anyone, just putting some thoughts out there. I honestly don't care what people do with their own animals, thats not my business. I have judged people in the past over their buying and selling habits, but who am I to judge after I have made poor choices, heck I am sure we all have at some point. And at the end of the day, why judge others and get yer nickers in a twist over their descisions?

I do think there are some foolish people out there that buy and sell like theres no tomorrow, or buy anything they can get their hands on only to have to sell their whole collection a few years down the line. It's not uncommon...

And I think there is a strange breed of reptile owner though, one who lives off the thrill of new additions and who just can't get enough. I suppose there is nothing wrong with that as long as they make informed descisions about the animals they purchase and can took after their to the best of their ability and meet all the specific husbandry requirements of every animal. But when people start to compromise the care of one animal to squeeze in another, thats when I have a problem I guess...
 
"...If it's okay to sell an animal, regardless of the reason, then what does it matter if the animal is bought to impress the "girl of the month" and then sold when she shows no interest??? Or the person who buys a cool new morph only to post photos of it online and sell it when "newer and better" comes along?..."

Well, it depends on what we mean by "right and wrong". I don't think it is MORALLY wrong to sell a snake for any reason (assuming it will get good care with its new owner), and from the animal's point of view, only the care it receives by its owner has any bearing on its well-being, not the reason it was purchased or sold.

But from MY OWN point of view, yes, it would bug me if somebody has animals only to impress others, or to match their sofa, or some other shallow reason. But if the owner is properly caring for their other pets, I wouldn't tell them they shouldn't buy another one "for the wrong reasons" (although I would advise them to think it over carefully).

So I would make a definite distinction as to whether I think their motives and care are MORALLY ok (from the animal's viewpoint), compared to whether I think their motives are silly and shallow, and would annoy me personally.
 
Heres another question. Have any of you refused to sell an animal to someone based on their buying and selling habits or their experience with the animal? I have and am currently getting flack which I could care less about, but I just refused a customer who is new to cresteds and keeps them in ways I disagree with wanting to breed for reasons I feel are wrong. Just curious if anyone else has ever said no to someone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top