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"Epilogue"

Kokopelli

Kokopelli

Resident Boa Fanatic
Well... yish, after what to me, is a rather horrible horrible period snake-wise... I thought I'd share the conclusions.

So... I have 4 Crypto clean, safe, tested Boas. a male and three females...

In addition, I have decided to keep a single pair of young CA Boas( a male Leopard and a female CA T+) that came back positive but with a very low occyst count... they are treated with Reptaid and maybe I will be fortunate enough to manage a full removal of the parasite...
If not... I will breed the two and try and save some clean younglings at least... they are easier to deal with as they are really small and calm... I am using gloves with them and they are quarantined in another room...

I euthanized some animals... as I posted in earlier threads...
A friend of mine brought me a buyer who wished to purchase 2 infected animals for his office- I explained everything and he didn't mind... naturally he paid a fracture of what they are worth and they will not be spreading the disease on...

So that's it I suppose... at least it's over and done with... and thankfully, I still have a fighting chance at saving the really crucial projects.

I have fully transitioned into "hobby-mode"... this will allow me to bring in other species I can simply enjoy as well... which is quite awesome, when you think about it...
There's something very clean about keeping the animals just for the sake of the hobby... it's like a breath of fresh air for me.

So that's it... the loss was by no means negligible... but I can definitely withstand it and at least continue enjoying these animals.
 
Oren, I am glad that you are able to see the silver lining. I know that I would be having a really bad time if I were in your shoes. I am glad to see that you are getting into it at a hobby level now.

I know I would love to have a few different species of snakes just around the house to look at and handle from time to time... One day I will have some really cool setups of different arboreal species.
 
Although it has been a horrible experience for you, I am so glad that you have at least a nucleus of boas as founder stock for a new, clean line for your projects. I hope you have at least as much GOOD luck in future projects as you have had BAD luck recently!
 
That's very very interesting actually... but since it was never tested on snakes I'm a bit spooked.
I am currently trying Reptaid... if that'll end up being a no-go, I may end up trying this alternative...
 
Oren, you have shown more strength in the past month alone than has anyone else I've ever met in the hobby. It thrills me to no end to see that you're going to continue enjoying your animals while still continuing to do research to benefit the community. You are an asset to not only this site, but the entire community worldwide. I wish you all the best in your recovery efforts, and many beautiful healthy babies in years to come.

Tara, I for one would be quite interested to see the results of a test using this method. If it proves true, a way to manage this disease will be easier and closer at hand than it was previously thought; I think that everyone can agree that this would be a major plus.

EDIT: It appears that, after a quick look around, DE is regarded by many as a snake repellent. I'll do a bit more searching to see the reasoning behind that.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
EDIT: It appears that, after a quick look around, DE is regarded by many as a snake repellent. I'll do a bit more searching to see the reasoning behind that.
Click to expand...

Thanks man, much appreciated.
I already looked into the snake repellent thing and it's bollocks I think.
The DE is tiny and pointy, it basically "skewers" micro-organisms which is why it is considered a good anti-parasitic. In fact, it is being used in filtration system to fight Cryptosporidium Parvum...
What I am concerned about though, is that we have little to no knowledge about how snakes would react to ingesting it... though large animals seem unharmed in any means... snakes have tough scales and they can't be harmed by it.

It an interesting hypothesis... At the moment the two animals I kept that are carriers are also relatively small... I am uncomfortable with giving them DE just yet... but when they are around 900 grams I will probably be more inclined to try.
We'll see if they survive to that point... even though I have to say that for the moment they are the picture of health. Who knows, maybe the Reptaid will remove the Crypto.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
Oren, you have shown more strength in the past month alone than has anyone else I've ever met in the hobby. It thrills me to no end to see that you're going to continue enjoying your animals while still continuing to do research to benefit the community. You are an asset to not only this site, but the entire community worldwide. I wish you all the best in your recovery efforts, and many beautiful healthy babies in years to come.
Click to expand...

Very well said, Robbie, and it expresses my own sentiments exactly.

Oren, I applaud how you have handled this whole tragic situation and I pray that God doesn't challenge you like that again for a very long time.
 
I've used DE for about 3 or 4 years now. I sprinkle it in the snakes substrate and in egg boxes to kill those little flies (fungus gnats?) that otherwise appear in the summer. I also sprinkle it around my plants.
It can be used safely as long as it's food grade (it's added to grain to keep down weevils and can be used as a wormer if added to animal feeds, it is also dusted on chickens to kill mites. The swimming pool filter grade is not safe to inhale or to ingest.
 
diamondlil said:
I've used DE for about 3 or 4 years now. I sprinkle it in the snakes substrate and in egg boxes to kill those little flies (fungus gnats?) that otherwise appear in the summer. I also sprinkle it around my plants.
It can be used safely as long as it's food grade (it's added to grain to keep down weevils and can be used as a wormer if added to animal feeds, it is also dusted on chickens to kill mites. The swimming pool filter grade is not safe to inhale or to ingest.
Click to expand...

Can it be used internally though by snakes?
If so, I am going to order some... and yes, I am well aware that it has to be food grade.
 
@Susan, Robbie- sorry for not responding more in length... truth is I'm kind of embarrassed for one( :) ), and the other... well... though it was very painful... I have my health, I am now engaged to be married... I decided "what I want to be when I grow up"... there are allot of good things I can celebrate and quite a few things that could have gone worse so... it's not that big of a deal to pull through.

'Sides... the prospect of being able to remove the Crypto from the two remaining animals I have is nothing short of awesome and keeps me hopeful.
 
Oren, I suggest contact my friend Pat Kline (Luxurious Leopards), as he is currently working on a project called “Kill Crypto”. He is running various auctions to raise money (I donate a $200 gift card every time they do the thing). He can help you out with any questions you may have. He’s working with a vet doing various drug trials to try and cure Crypto.
 
Carinata said:
Oren, I suggest contact my friend Pat Kline (Luxurious Leopards), as he is currently working on a project called “Kill Crypto”. He is running various auctions to raise money (I donate a $200 gift card every time they do the thing). He can help you out with any questions you may have. He’s working with a vet doing various drug trials to try and cure Crypto.
Click to expand...

I'd love to receive his contact info if possible via PM?
Since I am trying things on Boas, and he's focus is probably Leopard Geckos, I am not sure what sort of help we can lend to one another...but maybe it's worth a shot.
 
I have no idea if DE would work in this case, against protozoans. In animals it's used as an anti helminth, as a non-chemical wormer. And as to how you could get it in them? Maybe syringe a slurry into them?
 
DE has a negative charge to it (ionic) that attracts and kills protozoa along with the other added properties it has, as it's eliminated from the system. We know the properties and abilities of DE here at work (the US Navy) as we use it in certain (and very important) applications.

We also use it in the chicken world (my son does chicken 4H) as it kills mites, helps with digestion and acts as a natural killer of internal parasites.

The stuff is literally amazing.

I don't see why it wouldn't work for snakes, it's safe for all animals other than arthropods and gastropods so far. The reason why it is not safe for these types of animals is due to the damage DE causes to the exoskeleton.
I'll keep doing research though involving DE and snakes specifically. I'd be interested to see if it works.
In fact, I think you couldn't go wrong with a mixture of DE, Reptaid and some sort of vitamin/electrolite formula (such as Repta-boost) given for a duration of around 10 days or so. I'd bet dollars to donuts it'd work. ;)

The unsafe DE addressed above would be filter grade, as someone said. The reason why this is, is because filter grade is fire hardened and then combined to make crystalline shards. This is different than the food grade, which is in the natural form (individual diatomites).

I think the reason why it's not well *known* as being a natural, suggested, clean and safe insecticide, de-wormer, digestion aid, cholesterol reducer (and many other useful traits) is because, there's no money in it. The world runs on money, so no one is going to pay to have the research necessary to certify and promote it.
 
Oren, I'm doing a show tomorrow in MD with work and Pat will have a booth there. I'll ask him if he's used DE or tried it. Where can I purchase this stuff? I would personally like to try it out in my collection just to test out.

Oren, here's his email [email protected]
 
Tara80 said:
DE has a negative charge to it (ionic) that attracts and kills protozoa along with the other added properties it has, as it's eliminated from the system. We know the properties and abilities of DE here at work (the US Navy) as we use it in certain (and very important) applications.

We also use it in the chicken world (my son does chicken 4H) as it kills mites, helps with digestion and acts as a natural killer of internal parasites.

The stuff is literally amazing.

I don't see why it wouldn't work for snakes, it's safe for all animals other than arthropods and gastropods so far. The reason why it is not safe for these types of animals is due to the damage DE causes to the exoskeleton.
I'll keep doing research though involving DE and snakes specifically. I'd be interested to see if it works.
In fact, I think you couldn't go wrong with a mixture of DE, Reptaid and some sort of vitamin/electrolite formula (such as Repta-boost) given for a duration of around 10 days or so. I'd bet dollars to donuts it'd work. ;)

The unsafe DE addressed above would be filter grade, as someone said. The reason why this is, is because filter grade is fire hardened and then combined to make crystalline shards. This is different than the food grade, which is in the natural form (individual diatomites).

I think the reason why it's not well *known* as being a natural, suggested, clean and safe insecticide, de-wormer, digestion aid, cholesterol reducer (and many other useful traits) is because, there's no money in it. The world runs on money, so no one is going to pay to have the research necessary to certify and promote it.
Click to expand...

Tara, where can I buy this stuff. I suggested Reptaid to Oren, because I've seen it do miracles! I'm going to talk to Pat and see if we can use the DE in some trials. He's running an auction right now on facebook called Kill Crypto. I suggest you guys check it out. My gift cards are there along with many others.
 
You can just Google food grade diatomaceous earth but also the first link I provided above sells it (even Home Depot sells it, but I think they put some insecticide additives in it).
 
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