• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Finally got my corn to eat by feeding live, is this really such a bad thing?

xStaticSnow

xStaticSnow

New member
Well I got Ziggy, my 7 year old corn snake about a month and a half ago, maybe a little more. When I got him his owner said he much preferred live mice, but seeing as she gave me a mostly empty box of frozen mice along with the snake, I assumed he would also take F/T.

I tried everything I could to get him to eat. Wiggled it around, brained it, slit it, left it overnight, scented it with tuna water, and then chicken broth.. Finally a friend of mine who has snakes tried assist feeding, by gently holding his head and putting him nose to nose with the mouse. He refused to open his mouth.

Once he did decide to bite the thawed mouse a few times, but after realizing it was dead he lost all interest. I really wouldn't have been that nervous except for the fact that he is so skinny! You can distinctly see his spine along the length of his body and his jaws stick out a great deal from where his neck begins. It seems alarming to me, but then again I could be worrying too much..

I've had him a little over 6 weeks like I said, but I've only attempted to feed F/T 3 times. The first week I didn't try to feed him, then he refused the second week, the third week he went into blue and had a bad shed, the fourth week he refused, the fifth week he refused, and the sixth week he accepted a small live mouse immediately, killing it literally within seconds. 2 days later he pooped and now he seems as happy as can be.

I keep hearing and reading insistent opinions that feeding live is a bad thing. I understand the mice can bite but my snake was raised on live mice and it's obviously his preference. I think I would rather just supply a live mouse every week than poke and prod and worry when he refuses to take a frozen one..

Is this reasonable or are there major risks which would make it a better option to continue trying to feed frozen? Maybe I should feed him live until he gets some weight on him and then try to switch over to frozen? I'm not sure.. but feeding day is tomorrow and I was planning on heading back to the pet store for another feeder.

thanks guys
 
There are risks to live feeding. They are well delineated in multiple threads, and with a quick search you should be able to find them without problem. Most important is there is danger to the snake if the mouse bites, etc.

However...some snakes are harder than others to swap over. I have no direct experience with trying to swap a live-only feeder to an f/t feeder. Sounds like you've tried most of the recommendations, and if your snake was getting skinny to the point that you were worried about him, getting food in him was pretty important (IMO)

I think your plan is appropriate...feeding live until he's regained what he lost and then attempting the switch again. I would observe the feeding to make sure nothing adverse happens to your snake :)

One other suggestion: freshly killed mice can sometimes entice a finicky eater to swap.
 
toxiclight said:
There are risks to live feeding. They are well delineated in multiple threads, and with a quick search you should be able to find them without problem. Most important is there is danger to the snake if the mouse bites, etc.

However...some snakes are harder than others to swap over. I have no direct experience with trying to swap a live-only feeder to an f/t feeder. Sounds like you've tried most of the recommendations, and if your snake was getting skinny to the point that you were worried about him, getting food in him was pretty important (IMO)

I think your plan is appropriate...feeding live until he's regained what he lost and then attempting the switch again. I would observe the feeding to make sure nothing adverse happens to your snake :)

One other suggestion: freshly killed mice can sometimes entice a finicky eater to swap.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't know there were risks. I have read the threads on the risks of feeding live but mostly I'm just finding there id a risk of getting bitten. To me it seems like a snake which has eaten live all its life has a better chance of avoiding a bite as it has experience on how to kill a mouse properly.
Other than that I haven't found anything that's really stuck with me.. more like scattered concerns and rare accidents involving live prey

I also realize I know so much less than many people on this forum, which is why I have made this thread asking directly for the pros and cons of feeding live to be weighted and assessed :)
 
xStaticSnow said:
I also realize I know so much less than many people on this forum, which is why I have made this thread asking directly for the pros and cons of feeding live to be weighted and assessed :)
Click to expand...

Those "pros and cons" have been very well outlined in other threads.

It does not matter if the snake has eaten live it's entire life or not. There is always the chance you end up with things like the following.

Pardon me while I get graphic.

4725853770_4af627fec8.jpg


BoaWithRatBites00.JPG


bite.jpg
 
I think it is admirable that you want to switch over to f/t and I would do so as soon as possible. While I don't see live feeding as a horrible thing if it is the only way the snake will eat, I think that fresh killed (humanely killed for the mouse), is a better way to go. A dead mouse can't bite.
I do however have a really really low opinion of someone who feeds live FOR NO GOOD REASON AT ALL......
 
One quick question. How are you thawing the mouse out?

The reason I ask, is that most of the time I talk to someone who feeds live, they say that their snake won't eat frozen, and then I find out that they just sit the mouse out on the table and let it get to room temperature. Though 90% of the time they do not want to learn about the correct way to thaw the mouse/rat out, and decide they would rather keep feeding live and put their animals at risk...

Though I have gotten some to switch over. And once they thawed the mouse under hot water, instead of letting it come to room temperature, their snake ate it...
 
I would try offering a freshly killed mouse to your snake, that way it is already the right body temp as a live one. When I thaw out my mice I usually let them sit out and get to room temp :p But my snakes (aside from my ball python) aren't picky either. I prefer to warm the mice up with a hair dryer when I do thaw out in warm water, just so it's not a sopping wet mouse/rat. Also, you have not mentioned if you're feeding in the cage or outside of the cage? Many snakes will feel better about eating inside their cages.
When I used to feed my ball live I would hold the mouse over his head too, so that way the mouse didn't have a chance to run around or chew on him. Like BloodyBaroness showed, leaving live food with your snake can have bad consequences, but if he eats right away you should be fine. I'd still try switching him to prekilled after he gains some weight, if he accepts that then you can start moving onto f/t.
Good luck! :)
 
Seriously, there are HUNDREDS of threads on this topic, a new one every five days or so. Pop "live feeding" into the search bar and you'll have DAYS of reading to do on the topic.
 
Like others have said, there are lots of really good, long discussions where this has been gone over..

I can understand feeding live to a snake that is malnourished and won't eat anything else. I think if you NEED to feed live to get him to a healthy weight, it's okay, but then you should really focus all your efforts on getting him to switch. (From what I've read, they can go a long time without food, maybe it's just a matter of getting hungry enough.) You can also try fresh killed, instead of frozen. I've also read somewhere, for a really stubborn snake, they put a live mouse in a clear container, and then put the super warm, f/t mouse nearby, or wiggled it, and the movement of the live mouse "tricked" the snake into eating.

Good luck!!
 
WOW! Okay guys I get it! I really truly do. I want you to know I have a great amount of respect for the people here on this site, but I much admit I feel attacked on this thread.

BloodyBaroness: I am sorry but I do not appreciate those pictures. I obviously would never allow a mouse to know on my snake. He is fed in a separate container and I keep a better knife on hand, so if I suspect there is any chance that the mouse may be able to bite my snake while he is constricting it, I am prepared to slide the dull knife in between the mouth of the mouse and the snake's body. Those pictures are wayyy too graphic to post without a warning in my opinion and I did not expect that to appear on my screen as I was scrolling down. I'm not trying to be rude but I have seen others here complain about graphic posts when the poster is simply describing the death of a mouse using words.

For everyone else who gave respectful answers I appreciated this. I'm sorry if this thread is too repetitive, if it is that big of a deal I will not hold a grudge if it is deleted.

To answer the question about thawing, I know how to thaw a mouse! Please do not assume that someone who has not had thousands of posts on this specific site has no idea what they're doing. I've spent a decent amount of time reading suggestions and solutions that others have posted on this site.

My frozen mice come individuality packaged in small zip lock containers. I leave them in the bag so they say dry. I defrost them in warm water for about 10 minutes, then I dip their heads in much warmer water for just a few more seconds. My snake has shown interest in the thawed mice before. I believe I already posted this, but he has opened his mouth and bitten the mouse, but lost interest once he realized that the mouse is dead.

I have tried feeding frozen mice in the feeding bin, leaving them in the feeding bin, feeding in the viv with newspaper substrate, leaving it in the viv overnight, scenting the mouse, braining it, cutting it, wiggling it, covering his viv, and a smaller mouse then he would usually eat.

Today he took his second live mouse without a problem. I was right next to the feeding bin the entire time. Both times he has waited until he can grab the nose of the mice, constricts tightly and effectively killing the mouse faster than leaving them to suffocate in a closed container of eye and lung burning CO2.

All my post was asking was if feeding my malnourished snake a live mouse, which he much prefers, is as bad as so many people on the internet insist repeatedly.

I will attempt to feed a freshly killed mouse next time. I will try the method of breaking of dislocating its spine.. I could very well be completely wrong but I have a hunch he will be much less interested in a prey item which does not resist being eaten..

And lastly, I would never feed live for purposes of entertainment. I love all animals and hate to see them in pain. In the end I want to see my snake living a happy and healthy, stress-free life. Even though I would prefer not to put a mouse through 30 seconds of fear and pain, I will not ignore the fact that all animals need nourishment and in the past my snake has obviously not received adequate nourishment.

At least I care enough to make sure my adult snake was able to get out of his old home and into a new one where I am able to make more educated choices which will benefit his health.

Thanks for your time..
 
If he does end up grabbing a pre killed mouse hold onto the tail and keep moving it around for him. Hopefully that will trick him into constricting it and all!

But my opinion for feeding live is; if he's skinny because he won't eat f/t or prekilled, you don't really have much of a choice :)
I don't let the mice run around though, I do hold them by the tail above the snake.
 
Another thing you can do is "stun" the mouse. That way it's still alive but you'll have less of a chance for a bite, and perhaps that can help him move onto prekilled or f/t too because it won't fight as much.
 
xStaticSnow said:
For everyone else who gave respectful answers I appreciated this. I'm sorry if this thread is too repetitive, if it is that big of a deal I will not hold a grudge if it is deleted.

To answer the question about thawing, I know how to thaw a mouse! Please do not assume that someone who has not had thousands of posts on this specific site has no idea what they're doing. I've spent a decent amount of time reading suggestions and solutions that others have posted on this site.
.
Click to expand...

Yes, we see this and other topics repeated a lot. This is one of the ""hot" topics. But you seem willing to listen. That's a far cry from other thread that have been started.
The thing is..... Folks here like corns more than their owners. Captive snakes can't control their own "environment". They have to rely on their owners.
Take no offense from the replies. But they are to make a point that as been repeated time and time again on deaf ears.
 
I tried the holding onto the mouse thing when he decided to bite the mouse a few times! :) It seemed to work for about 2 seconds then he once again dropped the mouse and after that point he totally avoided the mouse. I felt like I had startled him when I did that and I was worried about injuring him by being too rough on his little teeth.

I can also try a stunned mouse. What is the best way to do that? I know some people use their finger to flick a pinky mouse in the head but I feel like this might not work for an adult mouse. Whacking it again the table or the wall? I worry it may do nothing more than injure the mouse but if other have had success with it I would try that too..

Thanks
 
Thanks for your post Lennycorn,

What you've said makes perfect sense to me. I only ask that those people who chose to post irritated or attacking posts are doing so much more harm than good. More people will be willing to listen to you if you remain calm every time you post. You are typing at a computer so you have time to think though what you are going to say. For those who are asking a genuine question, or are still getting oriented on this web site it can be a hurtful experience to be bashed for not knowing as much as someone who has 20+ years in reptile experience.. I don't think it is in anyone's best interest to have new members turned off by this forum and those posting in it.
 
I think if your guy will only eat live then so be it. There isn't anything wrong with it. Just as long as you know to be there and watch over the feeding. Things can go wrong in an instance. It may be rare but it is still a risk.

You can buy a f/t mouse every now and again to try to switch him. Or as other have stated that some snakes that like live will take pre killed over frozen.

I'm sorry people came off wrong to you on here. It's just that a lot of members here have been here on this forum for years and that this whole live vs f/t debate comes up constantly! Literally every few days or so. We get annoyed with repeating the same thing over and over again. Especially when so many refused to listen or only want to argue. Most feel, "Why ask for advice if you aren't willing to take it?" You can see how that would get annoying right?

Anyway, I wish you luck with your snake. I hope he will change his mind about eating live. But if not it's not the end of the world. You just have a little more to worry about when feeding.
 
Thanks again,

I will continue to offer thawed and attempt to feed recently killed as well as stunned mice. Some of the advice has been very valuable to me.

Others can rest assured that I will do everything in my power to make sure my snake remains healthy and injury free for the rest of his life, especially during feedings.
 
yeah we would stun the mice for picky ball babies just by placing them inside a tuppaware container and using a lot of force that would cause them to hit the top and then fall. Yes, the mice can get injured and I do feel bad about it :( But if the snake eats the stunned mouse that is (in my opinion) a step in the right direction. If the snake does not seem interested just quickly bop the mouse by holding onto the base of the tail and hitting it against something hard (I use a concrete block). It should die instantly.
It's too bad he let go of the prekilled mouse when you tried moving it! But I completely understand your concern about his teeth.
Like I said before, as long as you are trying to get your little buddy to switch over you're doing a good thing :) But like wingedsweetheart and I said, if live is all he will accept so be it as long as you make sure he doesn't get chewed up (which obviously is not a problem since you say he goes after it right away). It is better than letting him starve to death!
 
xStaticSnow said:
To answer the question about thawing, I know how to thaw a mouse! Please do not assume that someone who has not had thousands of posts on this specific site has no idea what they're doing. I've spent a decent amount of time reading suggestions and solutions that others have posted on this site.

My frozen mice come individuality packaged in small zip lock containers. I leave them in the bag so they say dry. I defrost them in warm water for about 10 minutes, then I dip their heads in much warmer water for just a few more seconds. My snake has shown interest in the thawed mice before. I believe I already posted this, but he has opened his mouth and bitten the mouse, but lost interest once he realized that the mouse is dead.

I have tried feeding frozen mice in the feeding bin, leaving them in the feeding bin, feeding in the viv with newspaper substrate, leaving it in the viv overnight, scenting the mouse, braining it, cutting it, wiggling it, covering his viv, and a smaller mouse then he would usually eat.
Click to expand...

If you took my post to be inflammatory at all, you should go back and re-read it with a calm head.
You will see that I added information about people who I had dealt with in the past.
And without any prior information on the way you thaw your mice, It was safe to assume that you had been thawing the same way that everyone I have come in contact with. Due to the fact that they all had the same problems.
So, it seems as though you misunderstood my post. Because I can assure you that I have been typing with a clear head.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top