Getting tired of it...

[Eremita]

(from my perspective of someone who is about to become a "hobbyist breeder" (there's a joke in there somewhere, but I have a point to make (if I would only stop embedding parenthesis)))
regards,
jazz

What're you, a Lisp programmer? :grin01:

 

[Roy Munson]

Dean is a reasonable and likable fellow, and he does not belittle pet owners. I hope Rich's agreement with SnakeNbake's post does not also concur with her review of his alleged viewpoint. What Dean has described roughly as resource-hogging honestly comprises the largest percentage of valuable/interesting/entertaining material on this site, as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks Sean. I doubt that Rich even read my post that SnakeNbake intentionally misrepresented.

 

[gwb8568]

The more you decide to forcibly exclude what you don't like, the smaller and more rigid your world becomes.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Eremita again.

If you like a site, post there..............if one for some reason doesn't "float your boat", leave. :shrugs:

Galen

it's that simple people. this started out as somebody's personal feelings on the way the site seemed to be progressing and (as usual) has turned into a 30 page thread on likes/dislikes of people in general (it did have some cool haiku for a bit). hell, we could start one on why McDonalds is better than Burger King and piss off allot more people that haven't even participated in this thread yet. i could say that brown sux, yellow rules and whoever does not like that statement or doesn't agree with me is not a true "color-fan". how about my Dodge is better than your Chevy because all people know how much it makes me angry to know somebody that belongs in a "chevy club". hunting is better than fishing so if you mount a fish above your fireplace you are now considered "unsportsman-like" cause that is just wrong to have that perspective.
i sometimes look at the ages of the posters in this thread (yes, me included) and wonder what my 15 year old girl would think if she happened to read this "book" that we are authoring. "Dad, you are pretty stupid! We don't even act like that at school about other people."
all it comes down to is peoples personal preference. it doesn't matter how "the other" site got started, it got started. it doesn't matter who left and/or why, they left. it doesn't matter if some people post on both sites and others just post on one of them.
Sam Walton (Wal-Mart) started his business as a mom & pop size store in Arkansas. do you think people downgraded him for making a change in his life? whoever did has allowed him to continuously roll over in his grave since his death. what am i talking about..........i don't know now, it has gotten pretty stupid with my explanations.
just trying to tell people to LET IT GO and get back to posting pics of snakes, telling funny stories and enjoying yourself while on the forum. why wake up, come here and hang out when more than likely it is just going to ruin the rest of your day. i really didn't plan on paying $25 to hear peoples "bitch & moan" sessions, i can do that in the comfort of my own home every night after work. i did pay it to help out a site that offered me quality answers to decent questions and allot of learning, laughing and making "web" friends on the way. c'mon people............it's not rocket science.

galen

 

[RedRaydin]

While I did...

While I did contribute, participate (whatever) in the mean adult corn snake story, which was quite entertaining, I do have to step in real quick. Roy has been nothing but kind to me (a newbie of 6 months), and has even posted in some of my threads giving me advice. I have never seen any reason to associate him with not being kind with, or being "high and mighty" over the newbies. I love his pictures he posts, it always gives us something really cool to look at, and he has been readily available to help those in need if the postings are of interest to him. I think we all need to stop drawing the line and thinking people must be this... or must be that. To some of us newbies who have got accustomed to the site and word our queries right, have used the search feature, and have some reasonable knowledge on the subject from conducting research, the so called "greats" you guys refer to are ready to help us. I never will put anyone on this site above anyone else. Because even the newbies are there to help based off experiences they have had and seen in their first weeks. I had a newbie help me answer some under tank heater questions I had the other day and now I got my setup complete, temps are regulated, and snake is happy with his warm and cool hide. I mostly was asking about fire hazards and spacing the bottom of the viv and what effects mounting on books and such would have. Maybe some pretty boring topics, but someone from either side is always there to help me. And I am greatly appreciative of that. So I believe we can all help each other. But I just wanted to defend the fact that I've seen help from all of you and I am that more knowledgeable and my snake is that much better off because of all of your help and my spending time researching here. Thank you everyone and I hope we can all get back to just enjoying the forum for what it is. A tool or avenue for research, making friends, finding potential buyers/sellers, discussing certain topics (hence what each individual forum on the site is for), etc. In my opinion, if you want genetics use the cultivars forum, if you want breeder topics... breeders forum... if you just wanna chat, hey look what we are doing here. I'm sorry if its slow or if the newbies can be a hassle and make the site more boring, but I have loved every second I have spent in here. By the way SnakeNBake, no hard feelings and I am not directing this at you but everyone who has misinterpreted some of the "greats" attitudes around here. I do enjoy your posts as well and hope to become more involved in them because I admit they do get a chuckle out of me every time I read em'.

I just want to thank everyone who has helped me out thus far before I go and who has added me as a buddy or took time out to talk with me. You guys rock. Long Live www.cornsnakes.com!!!

 

[SnakeNbake]

Dean, I didn't intentionally misinterpret your post. I read it from a very new person's point of view and said what I felt about it. My opinion in this is obviously unwelcome and understandably so since I don't know anything about the past drama here or what went on behind the scenes. I obviously read your post wrong and came to the wrong conclusions. I apologize for that.

 

[RedRaydin]

Everyone infers different things from different posts. Thats what sucks about text compared to talking in person. It's so much easier here to get the wrong idea (not saying that you did). I wouldn't even worry about it snakenbake. I guarantee you if you talked to roy and you two put aside your judgements on that single post you will see he can be a great guy. I know you can be really cool and I've only read a few of your posts. It is tough when your brand snpanking new cause if you jump into any thread like this or put in your opinion people trample on you. And that is not how it should be. People are going to from prejudices the second they walk in here. They just have to remember to keep an open mind and remember that first impressions are not everything. You gotta take a look around the whole forum and get a feel for everyone, participate in as much as you can, and get to know everyone before you step into a puddle as big as this one. Thats why I didn't comment for the first 33 pages of this (and I read every one), but I saw an opportunity to defend both sides and give my input. But who knows, someone who has been here 6 more months or a year longer than me may come in here next and tear me apart for trying to defend both sides. I don't know and honestly I don't believe in people bashing each other on an open forum. I just want to have fun and want everyone to feel included and know that they belong to the community. I'm sure when your here another 3-4 months you will form different opinions than you have now... you may keep some of the ones you have, that doesn't matter. Again... it makes you who you are, and if we were all the same then we would be down each others throats even more.

 

[PnyKlr]

Kudos Jazz...I must spread some around before I can get back to you!

I don't think people "trample" on the newbies strictly because they are new/must be brand new at snake keeping. It is my opinion that if a person is "trampled" (when speaking of husbandry and the like) it is probably because the opinion stated is not typical of most snake keepers (so the trampler is doing the advice-seeker a favor by pointing this out) or because the advice given has been found to be outdated.

I have often stated things that are against the grain of the majority of snake keepers (example: I use both heat lamps and UTHs to keep my temps and humidity in check) and I have never been slammed for it. Ever.

Frankly, my biggest complaint is when a VERY common question is asked in a new thread when it would have been much more appropriate to read the FAQs or use the search function. Often, I will answer the question (if it hadn't been answered yet) and insert a little something about using the search feature. I have been frustrated as a newbie watching my thread slide to the second page within a few hours because of repeated topics (the frustration possibly came from the fact that I did read all the FAQs and searched my questions before posting).

I have no "side" to take on the chat-thing...I would have stayed in the dark if my curiosity hadn't been peaked. I got the gist of the "issue" and I stopped reading the thread.

IMO, although the "greats" have become scarce, they have left a piece behind: the advice and info I give to "newbies" was obtained from these greats. I don't have the genetic insights that many of the breeders have (nor the awesome snake morphs), but a search of the internet could solve the problems I can't answer here.

 

[snakemom1961]

All I can say is, I haven't been on this forum for very long. So I'm not really sure what kind of changes have taken place in the past year or so.

But what I can say is, If i was a true newbie and stumbled upon this thread. It would truly scare me off from here and the "other" forum, mainly because it would make me feel as a newbie I wouldn't be made to feel free to ask stupid newbie questions on either site.

As is I'm really tryin NOT to ask anything, and trying to comment less, so I'm not frowned upon. Maybe that's not what this forum is about, but what can I say. Is how this thread in particular has made me feel.

 

[Roy Munson]

Dean, I didn't intentionally misinterpret your post. I read it from a very new person's point of view and said what I felt about it. My opinion in this is obviously unwelcome and understandably so since I don't know anything about the past drama here or what went on behind the scenes. I obviously read your post wrong and came to the wrong conclusions. I apologize for that.

No worries. I didn't take anything personally.

 

[RedRaydin]

Pnyklr,

Good points. I do agree I see the new threads with very common questions quite a bit. And you know what, if it weren't for you guys pointing out the search feature and telling them to look elsewhere in the forums for their answers they would not truly know or ever learn how to navigate the site. So yes that can be quite helpful. So I bet in the long run they do appreciate that, because on my firsts posts I got the same advice and I took it, guess what I learned something. But do you mean to tell me that you yourself have never posted in your very first postings on here "dumb" or "newb" questions? Unless you had cornsnakes a long time prior to that I'm sure everyone has. It's a learning process. We all end up adapting and we all accomodate to those people who do that. I just think there are some people who could be a little nicer in the way they direct people on here and not snip at people, thats all. We all have something to offer here and we all need to start somewhere. We shouldn't have to feel like we "don't belong" or that we may get our heads bit off such as snakemom1961 has stated. If it bugs you that much don't answer the thread and leave someone else to it. No one says you have to reply to the newbs. And you gotta admit someone else will always pick up the slack or answer if you don't. Just my two cents.

 

[PnyKlr]

Pnyklr,

Good points.

Why, thank you.

But do you mean to tell me that you yourself have never posted in your very first postings on here "dumb" or "newb" questions? Unless you had cornsnakes a long time prior to that I'm sure everyone has. It's a learning process.

Actually, I researched corn snakes for over three months before I even spoke to a breeder looking to purchase. I purchased everything I needed and set up my enclosure a week and a half prior to my snakes arriving so that I could work out the kinks in heating. I looked up cohabitation, and things of the like. I cannot recall a standard question that I asked in a brand new thread. Most, if not all, of my early questions were not answered in previous threads. The questions I did asked pertained to my snake or situation in particular. It wasn't hard, but many people buy their corns on impulse and follow whatever the petstore guy adviced (like "feed 'em crickets").

If it bugs you that much don't answer the thread and leave someone else to it. No one says you have to reply to the newbs. And you gotta admit someone else will always pick up the slack or answer if you don't. Just my two cents.

Umm, this is why I say that I answer if it hadn't been answered yet and I politely mention the search feature and FAQs. In no way did I say that it bugged me to no end and I felt the need to answer. I answer to pass on advice, plain and simple (but I'm not on so much anymore and many beat me to the punch, so yes, people pick up my slack). Frankly, if I see a basic husbandry question and it has many replies, I don't even read them any more (they have probably been answered)

Why am I defending myself in this thread? Figures...anything I respons to becomes instantly about me. :grin01:

 

[snakemom1961]

Speaking of questions, what's the latest with the "dilute" gene? Is it a simple recessive, or codominant with anery and motley only? And what's going on with the latest breeding trials?

Oh, you don't know? Wellllll, some people who would be curious about that question are missing some people who would be able to answer that question, and they feel that the "ol' gray mare just ain't what she used to be", because of their departure.

jazz[/QUOTE]
Ya know, Jazz, you just pointed out in that one quote what makes most newbies feel as though they can't ask questions without ridicule for lack of using the search option, or having used it and still not having found the answer and coming to the forums for answers. AND still being accused of not searching enough. Whether you believe it or not, those of us who are newbies but love our snakes and ask asinine questions, for the most part don't do it because we wanted to ask a repetitive question, but because we did a search and STILL couldn't find the answer. So what if the OLD GRAY MARE left.there are plenty others who know what their taking about to help the newbies.

But it has felt the "experienced" ones sometimes do get tired of "newbie" questions even if the newbie DID do a search.

sorry to ramble, and Jazz I'm sorry i quoted you but could have been many others who posted on this thread....again please accept my apologizes I was trying to use your post as a analogy for many posts on this thread.

 

[RedRaydin]

My bad

I wasn't making it about you inparticular. My main point is you said how it is frustrating that the newbs post those questions. But all I was saying was those who know all that stuff and are tired of hearing about it don't have to open the thread. Like I said I'm not taking any sides, I wasn't trying to jump down your throat or make it about you. I was making a generalizations bout the people who feel the same about the "newb" questions. I realize I did post that thread directly with your name on it, and I apologize, I should have been more specific in the later part of the post. If I remember I did emphasize how much we do appreciate the fact that you guys point out useful tools to us. Sorry if it seemed like I was making it just you. I shouldn't have used so much "you" language. And by the way I'm sorry I didn't realize you were a pro before you posted... we should all follow this kind of example ***(ps, I'm ONLY giving you a hard time here)***

 

[lefty_mussolini]

This thread is becoming epic, but it seems that everyone is going in circles. I see a lot of picking peoples posts apart and trying to find hidden insults (that usually aren't there.)

What is the title of this thread?

 

[RedRaydin]

Amen... and you know what, I totally just did that in the second to last post. I'm just a bit of a hypocrite. In the name of Martin Lawrence, "Can't we all just get along"?

::Lets dove's free to fly among us all::

Peace, Love... not war haha

I have contributed all I have now, thank you, it's been fun, I will watch the thread but unless someone calls upon thee I shall not indulge myself anymore. Later gators.

 

[RedRaydin]

Oh yea and ps:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to lefty_mussolini again.

 

[PnyKlr]

HEY! I;m getting tired of it... :grin01:


RedRaydinlease, please, you flatter me. I'm no "pro" by any stretch of the word! I think it was you who posted earlier (but I could be wrong) that it is difficult to tell the tone a person had used when writing while you are reading the post. I just wanted to clarify my position so that I could make myself more clear (things always sound better in my head then when I type them out).


Newbies: You'll all get used to Jazz and his humor in your own time...and then you'll enjoy much of what he writes. :crazy02:

 

[carol]

So judge them I did, and I still could not find any reason to say "Oh, yeah, you are right. You were completely justified to act as you did then."

The sad thing is that you still think this is what people wanted. I guess by "unjudging" I mean the situation should be judged and not the people. However, if the people were to be judged, judge them on a bigger track record than a couple of weeks. The fact is, due to the chat incident, you completely turned off your ears to anything anyone had to say about it and read post after post of people saying "I'm not justifying my actions, but we do need some help with the trolls in chat" and time and time again you interpreted these statements as "I'm just trying to justify my bad behavior".

I made a few posts commenting on how bad the trolls had got, but apparently I was justifying bad behavior too, even though I had nothing to do with that log. Shortly after I left chat, you made sure to post in front of everyone that people left chat because theirr "knickers were in a knot" over being told to act like adults. This left a lot of us out there that had mantained our adult behavior the entire time with a bad label as "throwing a fit because we had to behave lilke adults" no matter what our reasons for leaving chat were.

Seriously, some of those people believe that that incident damaged their entire reputation? "1% of inarguably unacceptable behavior wiped out 99% of good citizenship"? Sorry, but no, I just don't see it. So will anyone here chime in if THEY felt that the people engaged in that chat incident lost their reputation because of it? Maybe it's just me, but I certainly don't see it that way at all. And if anyone had reason to be disgusted and consider the perpetrators of that incident in a permanently unflattering light, I thing that would be me. And that certainly is not the case at all.

I don't think they have lost their "cornsnake" reputation, but I think you and a few others here don't realize the impact you have on how people are viewed here. I'd be more than happy to drop this whole matter except for the fact that many of us that made adult decisions are still being called immature and labeled as throwing a fit. The whole reason I started this post was because people are still making unfair representations that others left because they were told to act like adults in chat. I've talked to the majority of people who have left and I know that's not the case. It's the fact that you wouldn't listen to anything anyone had to say about the matter without your prejudgement of "They are just trying to justify the behavior" in mind.

Say you had a loyal friend for many years with a special trade that helped you build your house. Maybe they did the landscaping for a couple of years, maybe they repainted your home when you needed it or maybe did some house cleaning just because they liked you, they liked your family, they liked to be in your home, and they liked to help. Perhaps one day your friend comes over in a rage and punches a couple of holes in the wall. Now of course you are going to be upset and bring an end to it as soon as possible. You are more than likely to have a few choice words with your friend that this behavior is unacceptable in your home and they need to leave until they are under control.
Scenario #1. Any good friend is going eventually want to know what made this person act this way. Going over and giving your distraught friend a listening ear and trying to help them out if possible has NOTHING to do with justifying the holes in the wall. By listening to your friend, you may find something legitimate, you may not. You will definitely never hear anything that will justify the holes in the wall, but if you just listen without name calling or judging the person, likely that person will feel bad, apologize and repair your wall.
Scenario #2. Your friend leaves, cools down and then comes back. Every effort they make to contact you gets a "Nothing you can say will justify the holes in my wall, end of discussion", and any action they take after that you make sure you let everyone know that it must be a decision based on immaturity. You let everyone know that they stopped coming to your home because they were "pissed" they weren't allowed to punch holes in the wall. Even though your friend was sorry, he got tired of being unable to communicate with you and left. You announced that by their leaving, they must be going to a place where this is allowed because boy does this person like to put holes in walls.

Yeah, it is just as I suspected. Some people apparently got their knickers in a knot because I posted this thread in an effort to get the participants to cut out the petty crap I saw taking place in it. So rather than comply, the people this thread was pointed towards decided to just go elsewhere.
I really can't believe that anyone would condone the crap I saw in chat log segments sent to me and get pissed that I asked that it STOP.

People left chat because the trolls were bringing out things in people nobody was proud of, and got the public "Rich Z" judgment above.

Give yourself more credit. When you make accusations like the one above, it hurts people reputations on this site. I left chat. I don't condone the crap we saw in the log. I didn't get pissed that you asked it to stop. I'm sure the majority of people who left agree with those last three sentences. But it's quite apparent that no one will ever convince you of that. It will be the age old tradition on CS.com to dub thee immature fit throwers.

And yet each time I see quotes like this:

If that did, in fact, precipitate those people leaving because of my stance on that issue, then they in fact laid down the rules as my taking their side or they were taking the highway.

I, the glutton for punishment, try to point out that this wasn't the case in anyone I know of.

I donno why I've babbled on this far. I guess it struck a nerve that my name was put in the same post with statements such as "throwing a fit" and "immature". If that's what people want to call it. So be it. But for the rest who want my opinion... When you see someone pulling the rug from under people, you're likely to take one foot off the rug yourself.

 

[tyflier]

Amen... and you know what, I totally just did that in the second to last post. I'm just a bit of a hypocrite. In the name of Martin Lawrence, "Can't we all just get along"?

::Lets dove's free to fly among us all::

Peace, Love... not war haha

I have contributed all I have now, thank you, it's been fun, I will watch the thread but unless someone calls upon thee I shall not indulge myself anymore. Later gators.

Uhhh...That's straight from the mouth of Rodney King. Martin Lawrence stole it from him...

 

[snakemom1961]

Seriously, some of those people believe that that incident damaged their entire reputation? "1% of inarguably unacceptable behavior wiped out 99% of good citizenship"? Sorry, but no, I just don't see it. So will anyone here chime in if THEY felt that the people engaged in that chat incident lost their reputation because of it? Maybe it's just me, but I certainly don't see it that way at all. And if anyone had reason to be disgusted and consider the perpetrators of that incident in a permanently unflattering light, I thing that would be me. And that certainly is not the case at al

I for one reading that would think twice about going into chat, as I would feel like I had nothing to contribute. Yes I did enter chat one nite, and sure enough soon as I got there everyone either left or I guess went private. Thats thier perogative, but makes it hard for newbies to get known for who they are..

Sorry if I have made people uncomfortable and not wanting to get to know me, but that again is your perogative, and no I probably won't enter chat again. Not because I dont' want to talk to fellow memebers, but because I felt "chat" was reserved for "long time" members only...take care!