Interesting video.......

[tom e]

I don't think Obama has more (to speak of) experience than Palin. You could make that case back and forth all day long. I'll concede she has more experience governing, but she doesn't have more experience with legislating which is also important for a President.
I don't really view that as an issue anyway.. The most experienced man in the race is Biden with 10 years more than McCain (12 if you count lower office than Senator) but that's besides the point too. If I were to tell you why I believe Obama is the most qualified for the job, it's because of his Judgement. Even his choice of Biden informs that for me. He clearly knows that that's his weakness and he's made a great decision in regards to choosing someone that will help him to govern, instead of choosing someone to help him get elected.

But at the end of the day (for all the talk that would make it look otherwise) not very many of us are REALLY choosing based on the amount of the candidate's experience.


Fred, would you vote for Obama over McCain if he had more experience than him? But everything else remained the same about the candidate?

 

[jazzgeek]

But at the end of the day (for all the talk that would make it look otherwise) not very many of us are REALLY choosing based on the amount of the candidate's experience.

Well said, Tom.

Dale

 

[PtDnsr]

Ok...I'll jump into the political fray here. Few things that have jumped out at me. McCain is going to tax our health care...that means it will look like I make $12,000 more than I do (which is the amount that my employer pays towards the health care for my family) and I will end up paying taxes on that. My husband and I are scratching by as it is right now with a mortgage, student loans and just day to day expenses. I think that Obama relates better to the younger generation. Then again I've met plenty of people my age and younger (I teach seniors in high school) that support McCain so we can't say it's an age thing. Then I'll move on to Palin. I believe that any leader for our country needs to know how to speak eloquently. They need to be able to communicate effectively with other world leaders and be at least a decent representation of our country. I don't think that saying things like "maverick" and "gosh darn it" all the time will cut it. I know teenagers that can speak more eloquently than that. Yes, you need to be able to connect with the people you are speaking to and you need to be able to interject some humor so a speech isn't boring - but when people can't listen because they're laughing at the way you are saying your message something is wrong. Oh yeah...and cut your bangs before you go on TV (ok...got that off my chest). Stepping off my soap box now.

~Katie

 

[tom e]

Well said, Tom.

Dale

Dale whenever I have a point to make, I can probably assume you've already said it and better, LOL. :bowdown:

 

[Ricky87]

This post flat-out disguists me. Anyone who swallows this propaganda is just plain ignorant. Don't say anything about "As I see it, with McCain, we will at least maintain our freedom". You've been plenty free to sit on your computer, with your precious internet, and spread this garbage. I swear, if you keep going against Obama their is only one place you will end up, and that's hell on earth. This whole "NOBAMA" stuff is ridiculous, and it's sad a 23 year old knows more about honesty, integrity, politics, and leadership, than any of you McCain supporters. Your clearly willing to manipulate the truth just to try and denegrate Barack Obama, but your ignorance won't mean anything. Barack Obama knew nothing about Jim Johnson until the dirt was revealed publicly, yet according to you he was sharing in his greed. Also, don't pretend you care about inner-city education, because John McCain has no idea about cultural awareness. Barack Obama saved hundreds of families from an asbestos crisis in Chicago before he was even interested in politics. As for Fanny Mae, don't even begin to blame Barack for the economic crisis, and then actually try and paint Bush and McCain as heroes. Who was it who decided to put all this excess government money left over from the Clinton administation into the housing market?. Answer; republicans!. They figured that the economy was in such good shape that if they put money into real estate, they could turn a huge profit from potential buyers while the getting was good. Too bad war mongering Bush and McCain had to screw it up by going to war for oil, oops, I'm so sorry, for Iraqi freedom. The economy is ruined, because we're at war for no reason spending millions on Tanks so we can murder. That's the truth!. If you had any reasoning in you, you would not be spewing this garbage. Am I supposed to believe what you say. All your out for is a politician who will do you right, fight your wars. Sorry, but there is more important and worthy people to fight for other than legless "heroes", and gas-less greebs. If you really cared you would be doing something yourself thats positive, instead of coming up with manipulative ways to turn people on Obama. You don't care, and this post is clear proof. I hate having to be a 23 year old telling people who are 30+ the difference between right and wrong. I feel bad for your children, because the last thing we need is another generation of self-righteous arrogants who only care about making themselves appear intellectual. "The biggest threat to truth is ignorance". Learn that!.

 

[jazzgeek]

OK, Ricky....just take a deep breath, and tell us all how you really feel.


:grin01:


Dale

 

[Ricky87]

Ok...I'll jump into the political fray here. Few things that have jumped out at me. McCain is going to tax our health care...that means it will look like I make $12,000 more than I do (which is the amount that my employer pays towards the health care for my family) and I will end up paying taxes on that. My husband and I are scratching by as it is right now with a mortgage, student loans and just day to day expenses. I think that Obama relates better to the younger generation. Then again I've met plenty of people my age and younger (I teach seniors in high school) that support McCain so we can't say it's an age thing. Then I'll move on to Palin. I believe that any leader for our country needs to know how to speak eloquently. They need to be able to communicate effectively with other world leaders and be at least a decent representation of our country. I don't think that saying things like "maverick" and "gosh darn it" all the time will cut it. I know teenagers that can speak more eloquently than that. Yes, you need to be able to connect with the people you are speaking to and you need to be able to interject some humor so a speech isn't boring - but when people can't listen because they're laughing at the way you are saying your message something is wrong. Oh yeah...and cut your bangs before you go on TV (ok...got that off my chest). Stepping off my soap box now.

~Katie

PREACH!!!. Tell these fools whats good. No more of this ignorance. I will not have some mis-informed people affect my chance at prosperity. Luckily I've reached more people in my own words about Barack Obama, than any of you could do with a cut-and-paste youtube video. When Obamas president I want all of you to enjoy it, because you have no affect on the truth. You are, from now on, powerless. No more lies, no more manipulating, and above all no more ignorance. In Lamens terms; sit down, and shut up!. Follow McCain to his old, scraggly demise. If you don't care about Barack Obama than I do not care about you. I'm tired of people who try to sabotage Obama in the name of "Freedom". Your not free. Not from ignorance, deception, heartlessness, and with McCain you will not be free from war. This just means I have to try harder, and I am going to post under every political thread I see, and when I play games with people my own age online, I'm going to tell them the truth. I do not mind putting my lifes energey into seeing Obama in the White House. If thats what it takes, than consider it done!.

 

[jazzgeek]

....and above all no more ignorance. In Lamens terms....

Sweet Jesus, I LOVE irony.

Dale

 

[Ricky87]

OK, Ricky....just take a deep breath, and tell us all how you really feel.


:grin01:


Dale

Go figure, twice my age and half my intellect. You can't stop Obama, so don't even try. Your ignorance is beyond useless. If I were you I would spend your time taking care of your snakes, because my dishes are clean, my tanks are clean, my snakes are fed, and I have plenty of energy to continue. Do something positive, because you are too old to be SO mis-informed!.

 

[tom e]

Go figure, twice my age and half my intellect. You can't stop Obama, so don't even try. Your ignorance is beyond useless. If I were you I would spend your time taking care of your snakes, because my dishes are clean, my tanks are clean, my snakes are fed, and I have plenty of energy to continue. Do something positive, because you are too old to be SO mis-informed!.

Good God Ricky.. Did you even read any of the posts here in this thread?

I wonder sometimes why people have certain misconceptions about Obama supporters..uke01:

 

[The_Thunderer]

By that I don't mean to say that they were Atheists by the way.. Just that I believe they were very clear about religion and state.

By that I don't mean to say that they were Atheists by the way.. Just that I believe they were very clear about religion and state.

:-offtopic SORRY!!!
I also believe that they were very clear about religion and state... but the "separation" word isn't in the Constitution.

They wanted no "state-run" or "state-required" or "state-sponsored" religion. The Constitution clearly says that I should be "free" worship as I please. HOWEVER, it also protects those around me from me BASHING people on the head with a Bible or having everyone around me bow down to my Jesus Christ T-shirt. The Constitution is supposed to protect both ways. I just think we've gone so far to the extreme that now the rights of Christians (and other religions) are being taken away. Here are some examples...

• That it is okay to wear T-shirts with foul words on them to school, but NOT okay to wear a T-shirt with a Scripture verse.
• It's okay to wear a Burka to school, but not okay to wear a cross.
• It's okay to tell someone to $%^& YOU!, but not okay to say, "God bless you."
• It is okay for you to put up Jewish symbols, Islamic symbols, Buddhist symbols on your office door at a State Capitol, but NOT okay to put up a crucifix on that same door.
• It is okay to have a Buddhist club at high school, but not okay to have a Bible Study club at the same high school.

Something got lost in translation.... LOL.

Fred, would you vote for Obama over McCain if he had more experience than him? But everything else remained the same about the candidate?

LOL. I was responding to the first quote when you responded to my response to Jpccusa. That was where the "experience" rant was directed. Hopefully, I did it in a civil manner as I don't want this to turn into FLAME wars... Which, unfortunately, often happens.

To answer this question... Uh, no... there are other fundamental differences between the two. Let me be clear... I DO NOT trust McCain. He has done some things that have really TICKED off, not only myself, but other conservatives. However, I do believe that he has some parts that are right in line with conservatism, so McCain is who I have to vote for. The biggest of which is SIZE of Government. Government is NOT the answer to every problem. Yes, there are problems... but is GOVERNMENT the way to handle them??? Government can't even get GOVERNING right... why should we now give them the health care system - which is what Obama wants to do? Our Public Schools are failing our kids (I work with THOSE kids) and Governments answer (EVERY YEAR) is to throw more money at the problem. And get this... if I choose to send my kids elsewhere for education... I STILL have to pay for Public Education. Why?

Other reasons why I have to vote for McCain... again - as PAINFUL as that is... is because Barak has so many question marks in his past. Why has he NOT provided a legitimate Birth Certificate for public record? There should be NO issue on this... just give the document and all is settled. Instead, he hems and haws...

Why is he "friends" with an unrepentant terrorist - William Ayers? Sure, William Ayers did his terrorist acts when Obama was 8... but would you vote for a man who was a friend of Charles Manson - unrepentant murderer?

If he doesn't believe in the theology espoused by Reverend Wright, why did he attend that church and support it monetarily for 20 years??? Do you want a person who believes in the "destruction of the white race" as your President? That's what Black Liberation Theology espouses. And get this.. I'm not white... so I don't have to worry about... until all the white's are gone???

His economic plan makes no sense... the numbers don't add up. How are you gonna pay for almost 1 trillion dollars in new spending and still give 95% of Americans a tax cut??? Not possible! But after the election... when he has to pay for the new spending... guess what... I bet the tax cuts DISAPPEAR.

I also believe that taxing "the rich" is cutting off our nose to spite our face (is that how the saying goes??? LOL!). What group of people give other people jobs? The rich. What group of people invest in other people and their ideas? The rich. What group of people pay the bulk of all taxes in America - ALREADY? The rich. Taxing the rich is NOT the answer. Giving them incentive to hire (and not the $3000 pitance that Obama is talking about) is the answer. Giving the rich the ability and reason to invest is the answer. Look at California... people are FLEEING from California. Why? Because their taxes on businesses and business owners got out of hand. Because they taxed the RICH! Now, "The Governator" has spent the last few years trying to LURE businesses back to California. Name the growing states... Arizona... Texas... New Mexico... states that typically DON'T tax the rich.

There is also so much that the media has NOT asked Obama (because I believe the media is in cahoots with him) that should be asked and ANSWERED. The problem is, if you raise the questions... you must be a racist.

I guess, in short, I have fundamental differences with Obama and the Democrat Party. While I can't STAND McCain, those differences are still glaring.

If you don't agree... you're free to disagree! LOL.

 

[The_Thunderer]

Wow... look at that... I take time to think out my post and what happens... Flame wars begin!!!

See why I don't really respond to these threads... I guess I'm done here.

Thank you, Tom, Jazzgeek, Jpccusa for being able to disagree civily!!!

You do note, that I did NOT call anyone ignorant, a fool, etc. Why is it that those who "preach" tolerance are the ones that least show it???

 

[whippet]

3...2...1 BAN HAMMER

 

[Hypancistrus]

• That it is okay to wear T-shirts with foul words on them to school, but NOT okay to wear a T-shirt with a Scripture verse.
• It's okay to wear a Burka to school, but not okay to wear a cross.
• It's okay to tell someone to $%^& YOU!, but not okay to say, "God bless you."
• It is okay for you to put up Jewish symbols, Islamic symbols, Buddhist symbols on your office door at a State Capitol, but NOT okay to put up a crucifix on that same door.
• It is okay to have a Buddhist club at high school, but not okay to have a Bible Study club at the same high school.

Something got lost in translation.... LOL.

What kinda high schools you got in your area? The HS I teach at (indeed the entire school system) allows all of those things.

Third largest school system in the nation.

 

[The_Thunderer]

What kinda high schools you got in your area? The HS I teach at (indeed the entire school system) allows all of those things.

Third largest school system in the nation.

Most of these happened in Hawaii where I was a Pastor for 9 years. I've read of others.

The girls I care for have all told me that they are NOT allowed to bring their Bibles to school here... except for one who DOES attend a Bible Study club @ lunch time.

Uh-Oh... now let the "anti-Christian" flames begin??? LOL!

 

[jazzgeek]

3...2...1 BAN HAMMER

PLEEEEEASE, I hope not. Perhaps he'll take the time to research prior threads and get to know, by our writing, what most of us stand for.

Whereupon, I will - with my trademark civility, snark, and obscure references that will have him Googling, sweating, and wishing he could learn to proof his copy - dismantle him. :awcrap:

The pen IS mightier (insert your favorite Darrell Hammond reference here).


This kitty just found a new ball of yarn, and it's been a while since he's played.


Dale

 

[ForkedTung]

I believe if the actuary numbers are correct then if McCain were elected he has a better chance of dying while in office than living through it.
Could you see Palin going up against Putin ( or any other world leader for that matter)? He would eat her for lunch. The Tina Fey SNL skits don't even have to change what Palin actually says in interviews when she mocks her to make it funny.
McCain is W. Bush ( I have yet to hear a coherent thought or sentence from this man) all over again, and yet after McCain backed something like 90 percent of Bush's policies won't go near the current president ( a political pariah) with a ten foot pole.
For those of you that have voted for W in the last 2 elections and honestly feel that he has done a swell job, please vote again. For those of you that did vote for W and have doubts, what's changed about you that makes you think your voting for the "right" candidate this time? Really what's changed?
You know what's refreshing about Obama? That he doesn't have the corrupting "experience" that all the other politicians have. He's been around long enough to see what's wrong and what needs to be changed. Can he do what needs to be done when BOTH parties are so intrinsically corrupt? I honestly don't know but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I've seen what the Republicans have accomplished in 8 years and I'm just not ready for another four years of that...

 

[Ricky87]

Thunderer, I'm guilty of being obscure with my "fools" comments, and I do read and respect others opinions. I just don't like the hatred Obama recieves. He is not out for self, regardless of contrary belief, and when a group of people band together against him it just makes me nervous. I'll keep my posts civil from now on, and I'm sorry if I offended anybody. I just think that people hate Obama for no reason. He's so smart, and he is way more qualified than McCain, yet for some unknown reason he still gets so much hate. To me, it just seems like people are so used to war that they can't picture an America without it. Suddenly diplomacy is just some fairy-tale. McCain would get rid of every other non-white country if he could, and thats not right. Again, I'll try and be more civil, because I do get carried away, but with November 4th around the corner I feel like there is a sudden "McCain Uprising". People forget that he is old, and ignorant, and is still trying to win a ficticious war. We don't need another war with anybody; Iran, North Korea, China, etc. The only way we will get out of this mess is straight honesty, and diplomacy. Maybe Obama won't win over Ahmedinajhad, or Kim Jon-Ill, but he will win over countries to help us deal with them easier, right?. All I'm saying is don't give up on Obama, he's truthful and cares about you more than you think. That's all!.

 

[tom e]

I wish I was better at separating quotes.. I'll try to answer everything, but I'll just be looking down at what you typed and then coming back to what I'm typing.
I totally agree about the flame wars.. I don't mean to have anything like that going here either.

As far as the separation of church and state.. I don't really have much argument with you there. Except for these points
"It is okay for you to put up Jewish symbols, Islamic symbols, Buddhist symbols on your office door at a State Capitol, but NOT okay to put up a crucifix on that same door."

I don't think any religious symbols belong on a door in government buildings. But this isn't really a pet peeve of mine either. I draw the line at government sponsorship of any religious symbols. I don't care what an employee buys to put on their desk.

"It is okay to have a Buddhist club at high school, but not okay to have a Bible Study club at the same high school."

If the kids start it and the school isn't paying for it with tax dollars, I don't care about that. That goes the same for the Buddhist club..

The main thing I was referring to anyway was the idea that this is a Christian Nation and God and Country need to go together in the same sentence, or it doesn't sound right. That's what I'm saying the Founding Fathers would have issue with.

The Birth Certificate thing. I can promise you that nobody in McCain's campaign will have the nerve to say that Obama hasn't produced a birth certificate. This is because this has already been debunked 10 ways to Sunday and it would make them look foolish. Why does Obama not produce it for that "lawsuit"? Because it would be silly of him to dignify that lawsuit. It's already a matter of public record. His birth cert. has been viewed and it's not really in question except on the fringe. I know they say that the "mainstream media" doesn't have the guts to tackle the question. Is it likely that that's true? Do I have more faith in capitalism than my brothers on the other side of the aisle? If that story was viewed as even possibly true, I don't think anybody would miss the chance to break it.

As far as his campaign promises that you say don't add up. The tax break + the tax increase on the wealthy= a net increase in taxes. So it's not that hard to see where the money comes from. Drop an expensive war in Iraq, there's more. Do I believe he'll keep every promise? I really do not. Inheriting this economy will cause him to disappoint some of his supporters who are less reasonable. His ideas though show his priorities and they are in line with mine.

As for the dangers of not giving the rich HUGE tax breaks though, I feel the trickle down business is fairly well debunked as well. We haven't 'tried out' those policies (plus unprecedented deregulation) as fully as in the last 8 years, and where are we? Well the rich are richer than they've ever been, that's about it.
:shrugs:

 

[wade]

I
The main thing I was referring to anyway was the idea that this is a Christian Nation and God and Country need to go together in the same sentence, or it doesn't sound right. That's what I'm saying the Founding Fathers would have issue with.

Tom, I am the one that made the God and Country comment and you have blown it way beyond what was intended. I could have said I believe in Mother and Apple Pie. I hope you don't have issues with apples.