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king snake influence in tessera morph?

DMong said:
Dave, is that a single anal plate I am seeing on that snake?

Also, do all the Tesseras everyone has have divided anal plates?.....typical of all cornsnakes?...........I am betting they do.


~Doug
Click to expand...

When dealing with snakes, is a divided anal plate the result of dominant or recessive genes? What I'm trying to ask is this, "If one crossed a King to a Corn and will we get all single anal plates? If so, do we get divided anal plates typical of a corn by breeding these F1 siblings to each other or to a corn?
 
dave partington said:
Perhaps you are considering the tesseras with the broken up pattern/incomplete stripe down the back as 100% tessera? They look intermediate to me. I think Joe's price is right considering the quality.
Personally I would have sent them to Korea with the rest of the scrap from asst'd projects. Keep the price stronger in this country. I know, too much work. Let's crash the market on ourselves and then point the finger elsewhere.

Remember back when the first tess were available?
no hets listed. hefty price.
BHB tess, no hets listed, hundred bucks.
All these other breeders listing tess with hets, a little more money. not much more money. Are we crashing the market on ourselves by getting ten bucks more for each p/het listed?
Click to expand...
I'm quite certain that Don S proved that even the ones with the broken stripe still produce Tessera clutches in the same manner as full stripe Tessera's, which would indicate that they *are* Tessera's.

DMong said:
I respect you a great deal too Mitch. But how on earth could 50% textbook corns be produced and 50%Tesseras be made and NEVER any intermediates in all these countless breedings everyone has done over the past several years?


~Doug
Click to expand...

This is one reason why I believe that Tessera's are not hybrids.

Edit to add: IMO, the reason Tessera's have come down in price so quickly is because they're so readily produced, population numbers exploded, & there's so many on the market.
 
To Walter and Nanci, the divided anal plate is of course a good thing to see, but it really doesn't prove all that much just in itself. If they had SINGLE anal plates, then then that obviously wouldn't be a good sign. As I told Carpe in a PM, I would expect to see divided anal plates since the more corns they are ever bred to (IF they were hybrids) would only become more and more prevelent anyway. But you DEFINITELY wouldn't want to see single plates that are a meristic scalation feature of common getula. That said, there can be corns and ratsnakes that once in a VERY GREAT WHILE that can display a fused single anal plate. Other scalation on individual snakes can sometimes be atypical too, like fused postocular scales behind the eye, and divided frontal scales in many Hondurans, etc...

To Carpe: I don't know anyone that breeds crosses for anal plate results, so I couldn't tell you. ;) All I know is that those meristic features are a distinct makeup of both their natural morphology for countless millenia.


~Doug
 
DMong said:
Dave, is that a single anal plate I am seeing on that snake?

Also, do all the Tesseras everyone has have divided anal plates?.....typical of all cornsnakes?...........I am betting they do.


~Doug
Click to expand...

Stella (Okeetee tessera from Graham Criglow's Halloween Okeetee male x original tessera female) has divided anal plates. I can get a photo up if really necessary, but assuming it's not. :)
 
DragonsDenSerpents said:
Stella (Okeetee tessera from Graham Criglow's Halloween Okeetee male x original tessera female) has divided anal plates. I can get a photo up if really necessary, but assuming it's not. :)
Click to expand...
I have a pair of those, they have divided anal plates.
As does the original female.

Whether the f1 stripe California king X corn has single or divided isn't really important at the moment, it is still only 50/50.
later this year when bred to corn, to produce 25/75 corns, it will be interesting to see if the babies
1. being 75% corn, have divided anal plates
2. 50% of the clutch is striped. ***
Beyond that, if the stripe proves out,
we will then need to raise up the stripes and see if the stripe is 50% heritable again.


*** which will not necessarily prove anything either if 50% are striped, as half of the parents are striped. More importantly, will they look identical to classic Tessera?
 
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DMong said:
To Walter and Nanci, the divided anal plate is of course a good thing to see, but it really doesn't prove all that much just in itself.
Click to expand...

Agreed. As mentioned, It really does not make a difference to me either way. I like them, so I have them.

I was pretty much just giving info that you asked for, does anyone have a Tessera with a single plate...........the 14 I have do not ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
dave partington said:
50/50 Honduran Milk/Corn : Entire
50/50 Pueblan Milk/Corn: Entire
50/50 Cal King/Corn: Entire
25/75 Sinaloan Milk/Corn: Split
Click to expand...

Seems it doesn't take many generations to see the split anal scale in a king/milk to corn hybrid.

Anyone else have 25% or so king/milk X corns?
 
Hello

Why not reverse the thing take a tessere and a Cal king ( without anything )and try to put the the pattern back to the cal king. Its dominant just like my buf, that wil say whe now it after one cross. And than look if this patternmorph goes back to where you think it came from.
It wil always so that the man who think that he has something new, he must prove and prove and prove. I done it with my thing , and than is was still
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssttt.

Greatings

Jan
 
slangenbroed said:
Hello

Why not reverse the thing take a tessere and a Cal king ( without anything )and try to put the the pattern back to the cal king. Its dominant just like my buf, that wil say whe now it after one cross. And than look if this patternmorph goes back to where you think it came from.
It wil always so that the man who think that he has something new, he must prove and prove and prove. I done it with my thing , and than is was still
ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssttt.

Greatings

Jan
Click to expand...

Using this formula of breeding, one could
breed tessera X Bull Snake, and if it is 50% F1 dominant, then tessera comes from Bull Snake

Or Tessera X Honduran Milksnake = 50% Visual Tessera, so Tessera comes from Honduran Milksnake.

Or Tessera X Florida Kingsnake = 50% Visual Tessera, so Tessera comes from Florida King.

This is not working for me.

I would rather take Striped California King X Cornsnake with no pattern hets, get 50% Striped CalKorn hybrids,
raise the striped ones up,

breed CalKorn (25% CalKing) X Cornsnake No pattern hets, see if 50% hatch striped, IF SO,
raise the stripes up,

breed those CalKorn stripes (12.5% Cal King) to corn (with no pattern hets, unrelated stock), see if 50% hatch striped

If anywhere along the way the 50% ratio drops off, then Tessera is not derived from Cal King as Joe tells us.

OR-
If one looks at Tessera and Stripe Cal King as both simply being "Dorsal Stripe",,
Dorsal Stripe X Dorsal Stripe = Dorsal Stripe.
Does this prove that Cal Kings are Tesseras?
Does this prove that Tessera is Cal King?
I'd be far more interested in creating Tessera from scratch.

Re: Buf: I don't have a Buf. But that is a color, not a pattern.

Toffee X Buf = Buffee? :sidestep:
 
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dave partington said:
Using this formula of breeding, one could
breed tessera X Bull Snake, and if it is 50% F1 dominant, then tessera comes from Bull Snake

Or Tessera X Honduran Milksnake = 50% Visual Tessera, so Tessera comes from Honduran Milksnake.

Or Tessera X Florida Kingsnake = 50% Visual Tessera, so Tessera comes from Florida King.

This is not working for me.

:
Click to expand...
Than its a pattern that is laying in the snake pool Genetics ?????????????
 
And so it begins.
First, I made a mistake awhile back, the cal king/corn I have is 25% cal king.
Here is where I found her:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124716

And here she is today with a Landrace Lava with no hets for striping.

I also hope other might do this experiment and share their results.
Thanks,
dp
 

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