LEAST Favourite Morph

[Traci1]

But just curious here, of those people saying they dislike this one and that one, of the ones you dislike, how many people have actually HAD that animal in their possession and not going strictly by photographs? Heck, I never thought much of Striped Snows or Striped Anerythristics until I hatched out some of my own.

Out of the ones I said I wasn't fond of I've either had them in my possession or have seen them in person at shows with the exception of an adult bloodred and an adult sunglow. For those two, I'm just going by photos.

 

[countMEout]

I have to say my least fav corn snake morph would have to be bubblegum snows just kind of rub me the wrong way.

 

[Itsnowingcorns]

Hah! Interesting thread. And pretty much nails it on the head why when someone who breeds corns does a show they have to bring a little bit of EVERYTHING to sell there.

But just curious here, of those people saying they dislike this one and that one, of the ones you dislike, how many people have actually HAD that animal in their possession and not going strictly by photographs? Heck, I never thought much of Striped Snows or Striped Anerythristics until I hatched out some of my own.

I never thought of that Rich, I suppose corns look very much different in person. I will have the opportunity to see some hypo lavs and opals at the Corn Show in October, maybe I'll change my mind? I dunno.
For now we'll all just have to go by photos, and one I just thought of was that ruby freckled snow. Looks like it has an itchy rash, who else thought that?

 

[Hurley]

Heh, the pictures of the ruby-freckleds I've seen (nope, never saw one in real life) always look to me like they are infested with red mites.

They are different, but they don't do anything for me.

 

[Serpwidgets]

Hmm, I like the blue/green/purple side of the color wheel, so the reds and oranges and yellows don't do as much for me. I still like anything with crisp, clean, bright colors like Frank and Carol's gray miamis and Kathy Love's Okeetees.

But in general, anything with halfway colors--caramels, ambers, butters, kisatchies, lavender/hypolav hatchlings, typical aneries, pastel anything, adult snows, granites with pink in them, and "normal" amels with that dull speckled yellowy-orange... or as I call them, "vomitmels"--are not attractive to me. Striped patterns and a lot of halfway zigzagged or halfway aztec patterns don't do anything for me either. Calico types look really gross to me... I think the worst combo for me would be a paradox AND ruby freckled striped snow, LOL. But a nice contrasty pied will catch my eye if they ever show up.

There are always exceptions though... I saw (in person) a gorgeous butter motley consisting of only "have a nice day" yellow on a clean white ground color. Amazing! I still drool over that thing, hehe. And the striped bloodreds Richard Hume had at Daytona last year were pretty neat.

 

[gardenmum]

Well, my least favorite, hands down, is the Blizzard. Anery and charcoal were ones I wasn't overly fond of till I got a couple and have grown to really like the type I find appealing. And that is the thing I have noticed, it is not so much a particular morph but the individual specimen of the morph that I find either appealing or not appealing. Like, I like contrast and I don't care for the body color to have a "dirty wash" look to it, so I like an anery or charcoal that has nice contrast and a clean body color.

I agree with Rich, seeing them in person brings a whole different view on ones you think you may not like as opposed to seeing them only in pictures. I wasn't very impressed with the Kisatchie corns from looking at pictures of them, but when I had a couple babies here temporarily I found I did like them so bought me the adult female I have and very much like. Blizzards I have seen in person and have owned and I have to say I am not impressed with them at all, also have seen Butter stripes in person and am not overly excited about them, not enough contrast for me personally. But I do like a nicely colored amel stripe. Now, a caramel stripe I REALLY like the looks of.

All in all though, there really is not a morph I can think of that I wouldn't own because there are always outstanding examples of each type that would appeal to me, as I am sure that if some of the people here went to a show they may very well run into a speciman of one of the ones they say they don't like that they would fall in love with and just HAVE to buy.

 

[DdotSpot]

Hmm, I like the blue/green/purple side of the color wheel, so the reds and oranges and yellows don't do as much for me. I still like anything with crisp, clean, bright colors like Frank and Carol's gray miamis and Kathy Love's Okeetees.

But in general, anything with halfway colors--caramels, ambers, butters, kisatchies, lavender/hypolav hatchlings, typical aneries, pastel anything, adult snows, granites with pink in them, and "normal" amels with that dull speckled yellowy-orange... or as I call them, "vomitmels"--are not attractive to me. Striped patterns and a lot of halfway zigzagged or halfway aztec patterns don't do anything for me either. Calico types look really gross to me... I think the worst combo for me would be a paradox AND ruby freckled striped snow, LOL. But a nice contrasty pied will catch my eye if they ever show up.

There are always exceptions though... I saw (in person) a gorgeous butter motley consisting of only "have a nice day" yellow on a clean white ground color. Amazing! I still drool over that thing, hehe. And the striped bloodreds Richard Hume had at Daytona last year were pretty neat.

Wow...there's not much you DO like...hehe

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I guess my two least favorite morphs would be Caramels (but I love Butters) and Pink & Green Snows. I though, will be adding a trio of Caramels to my collection!

 

[Itsnowingcorns]

or as I call them, "vomitmels"

LMAO, how creative of you.

 

[TrpnBils]

Hah! Interesting thread. And pretty much nails it on the head why when someone who breeds corns does a show they have to bring a little bit of EVERYTHING to sell there.

But just curious here, of those people saying they dislike this one and that one, of the ones you dislike, how many people have actually HAD that animal in their possession and not going strictly by photographs? Heck, I never thought much of Striped Snows or Striped Anerythristics until I hatched out some of my own.

All photos for me... and I realized something when I was trying to decide what to buy. There were a lot of photos that I absolutely hated, but then I realized that the only photos I saw were of hatchlings. When I saw the adults of the same morph, more often than not, I liked them. I dunno what it is about hatchlings to me, but I personally think the majority of them (of the pictures I've seen) are ugly, regardless of the color or pattern.

 

[Menhir]

I would also go with Blizzards. Especially the clean white ones.
A friend of mine has one with really glowing yellow borders around the saddles, very thin - thats quite interesting. But the plain white is some kind of boring to me...

I also dislike ugly yellow in Anerys. I like it in Caramels, but in many Anerys and Ghosts, I really dislike the yellow...

 

[Serpwidgets]

But my least favorite morph would have to be ULTRA. Don't get me wrong, I think they are gorgeous but I have serious doubts about thier heritage. I think we are so excited to work with something new, the skeleton is being shoved in the closet and swept under the rug. The conversation has been dropped like a rock and everyone else seems to be OK with this. What we don't know can't hurt us, eh?

I think a lot of people like snakes for their individual attributes. IMO the reason a lot of people shy away from hybrids is because of a very small but very vocal (and obnoxious, rude, and arrogant) group of people who bashes anyone who likes or has hybrids. People don't want to be bashed, so it's easier to avoid the issue altogether. :sidestep:

As far as which ultras are hybrids, the story went that the first cross was to an amel het caramel. The ancestors of these are "pure" corns in every way any other corn is.

The hybrid cross was to a "greysnow" which may or may not have been propagated. But there is this whole line of ultras that have caramel in them and anery has never popped up in them. How likely is it that the caramel gene came from the "greysnow" line? Seems unlikley, especially way back then. They may still be from that cross, or caramel might have been mixed in later, but I would at least think there would be some anerys having hatched somewhere along the line, especially when anery overpowers caramel. It may very well be that the "ghost" variations are from the hybrid lines and the "golddust/butter/motley" variations are from the "pure" line. :shrugs:

But when it comes down to it, there's no inherent "inferiority" to a snake just because it has mixed heritage. Any snake that has attributes I like is always better than any "pure" snake that has attributes I do not like. I don't see having a better snake (hybrid or not) as something that hurts me.

 

[carol]

But when it comes down to it, there's no inherent "inferiority" to a snake just because it has mixed heritage. Any snake that has attributes I like is always better than any "pure" snake that has attributes I do not like. I don't see having a better snake (hybrid or not) as something that hurts me.

I don't think Hybrids are inferior either, I'll be producing a few here myself this year. I am also unsure if all Ultras came from hybrids, or if some hybrids were made with Ultra. All I know is that the pair I have do not look like pure corns and many others agreed. Maybe their are others out there that also have some like mine, have had thier doubts, but kept them quiet because they don't want to start the "hybrid" issue for the gazillionth time, because they fear it will make their animals less valuable, or for whatever other reason. I just see many possible hybrids getting into peoples hands with them having no idea that there is that large possibility. That is what I meant by "what we don't know won't hurt us".
Its not that I don't like the Ultras, I just have a strong feeling that there are many out there (if not all, I agree is largely debatable) that have mixed ancestory that will be sold as pure corns. That just gives me a funny feeling.
Their history is just so fuzzy, and so many people won't know unless they pick through a 50 page thread. But I guess that can be said about any morph, when it comes down to it you just have to believe the originator when they say when, where, and how it was originated.
But when I look at the two I have, they give me a distinctive gut feeling. :shrugs:

 

[Menhir]

because of a very small but very vocal (and obnoxious, rude, and arrogant) group of people who bashes anyone who likes or has hybrids. People don't want to be bashed, so it's easier to avoid the issue altogether. :sidestep:

I think you are quite wrong. I think there are more and more people that dislike the idea of bringing 2 individuals together by tricking them, that would never mate in nature. I'm not speaking of Emoryi x guttatus and so on, thats what you can find in nature too and everyone should decide for himself, whether he likes to keep such or not. But I see an ethical problem with animals like jungles, cause you trick out nature and play some kind of frankenstein.
I don't want to offend people doing that - there are several people that dislike keeping any kind of animal in cages and I respect them. But I also like to be respected by people keeping that animals when I say, that I do not like that and I'm against it.

I don't want to start off the whole hybrid thing again, but I think you are somehow bashing people by putting them in a little "rude, arrogant and obnoxious" group. :shrugs:

... I hope I did not get you wrong - seems I'm somehow a little fuzzy with my english these days...

Greetings

 

[carol]

I don't think Serp was saying that all people who are anti-hybrid are obnoxious, rude, and arrogant. Only that when any hybrid discussion pops up, there tend to be a lot of "obnoxious, rude, and arrogant" people on both sides of the argument that feel they have to be very vocal. Everyone is tired of it, and that is a very good reason why subjects that should be discussed further are just dropped. Just to get away from the pointless trolls that pop up to defend either side as soon as they see the work "hybrid".

 

[Taceas]

Well Rich, most of my dislikes are based on pictures. They don't impress me enough in pictures to warrant getting one, personally. I've had Anery A's and can say for myself, they're as ugly in person as the pictures, the same goes for Charcoals. Just too bland for me.

Opals, they just look like a terribly bad snow or blizzard in pictures. And from what some people say, the same is true for real life.

Plus living in BFE, Indiana and never having gone to a show (pokes at husband who works nights) I don't get much of a chance to SEE the others I mentioned, in person.


Only thing I'm going to say on this matter..

As far as the hybrid thingy Serp has resurrected, Menhir hit the nail on the head for me, at least. Not everyone who bashes hybrids are "rude, arrogant, whatever". I detest hybrids myself. I don't agree with people creating them. But unlike more outspoken people, I generally keep such feelings to myself.

I literally cringe when I read posts where people are going to breed kings and corns. I think most jungle corns are hideous in any shape, form, or color. They just look like something from a sci-fi movie that has no place being alive. Its far enough over on the deviant scale, that it just doesn't appeal to me. Although I still acknowledge the owner's rights to do such crossings, I just don't agree with it and I think it would limit my future purchases from such individuals even for "pure corns".

Creamsicles, on the other hand, don't bother me. No trickery involved in getting them to breed, and natural intergrades have been found where the two ranges overlap from the last I read. I have owned them in the past and like them as a general rule. Good eaters and good growers.

I just bought a kingsnake, but I have NO, read me, NO intentions of ever crossing it with a corn snake. I got it for my own personal reasons and interest. Now if the damned thing would stop trying to sample my fingers, we'd be buddies. I like kingsnakes for what they are, in their pure form. I like corns for the same reasons and believe they should be kept separate as possible, albeit a little too late for it.

Ok..done. =)

 

[Menhir]

I don't think Serp was saying that all people who are anti-hybrid are obnoxious, rude, and arrogant. Only that when any hybrid discussion pops up, there tend to be a lot of "obnoxious, rude, and arrogant" people on both sides of the argument that feel they have to be very vocal. Everyone is tired of it

Ok, I understand. Sorry for that Serp, seems I misread the statement. The rest of my posting is still valid I think.

Back to the least favorite morphs. Perhaps we should make a poll
it's like working with the DowJones, we can drop and raise prices that way :santa:

 

[Rich Z]

But when I look at the two I have, they give me a distinctive gut feeling. :shrugs:

Do you have any Sunkissed Corns? What is your "gut feeling" when you look at them?

My take on the hybrid possibility is that what are the odds that a gray rat snake (which are really not all that commonly bred in captivity) just happened to have carried this "ultra" gene in that one individual bred into corn snakes, instead of the possibility that it came from corn snake lines (which have been bred immeasurably more times, increasing the odds of a gene like this popping out? Yeah, I know anything is possible, but what is rationally realistic about the odds?

I have never really captured very many wild caught corns, but when I lived in Maryland, I caught TONS of black rat snakes. The amount of variation in head and body shape and structure was unreal. Short stubby heads to very narrow elongated heads depending on local populations you find. Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense to believe that this sort of variation is not also in local populations of the corn snakes as well.

So "gut feelings" aside, what criteria can you REALLY use to determine what is a hybrid and what is not? And if someone were to accept that a naturally occuring integrade between an emoryi and a corn snake that have their ranges overlap is OK, then why would they balk at overlapping ranges of gray rat snakes and corn snakes producing an example of a mixture between the two?

Again, I brought up the example of the Sunkissed Corns. What criteria is used to accept that they are in fact pure corns and then look at an Ultra and using that same criteria say that those are not? You can't say that the range of variation possible in a pure corn snake is being met in one but not in the other.

And please, I am NOT saying the Sunkisseds are hybrids. I'm just saying LOOK at them and tell me what yardstick is being used to measure ALL variations we are seeing, and saying which one measures up and which one doesn't.

 

[Serpwidgets]

Ya, as Carol said, I'm not equating a dislike for hybrids with a certain behavior. I'm saying that it only takes a handful of such loud people to keep a lot of people from wanting to express their opinions for fear of being jumped on. I think some people may choose not to work with hybrids because of that, but I think another side effect is that other people instead choose to not TELL anyone what hybrids they work with or produce.

Rich, I was thinking exactly the same thing about sunkissed corns. But then my gut instinct on anything that has a different look or feel to it is initially "I wonder if that's a hybrid?"

 

[Hurley]

If I didn't know the source of sunkisseds, lol.

You want to talk hybrid looking?

Short heads, bizarre head patterns, weird eerie yellow-green tinge to their saddles (at least some lines of them). They go WHITE when opaque. They can have more aggressive personalities.

Yet, these puppies are corns. It's amazing the variability in these guys.