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Live Feeding

mele2511 said:
Hi

I was thinking of feeding my 5.5 foot corn a live mouse. As i have never done this before is there anything i should look out for or should this be done at all ?
http://faqs.org/faqs/pets/herp-faq/part3/
It's not illegal in the UK under certain circumstances, but you could be prosecuted if you cannot prove there was a need to do so, if you are found to have caused unnecessary suffering, or if you perform the action in public.
Personally I have had to feed live and was threatened with being reported. As I had detailed (non)feeding records, e-mails and weight loss records for the snake involved, I was not unduly worried after I found out about the relevant legislation.
 
To me makes no difference i feed primarily f/t (i can house mass quantities) but randomly i give them live here is why!!!



I just spent close to an hour reading these arguments :) I enjoyed them very much. Here is my opinion. Other than the small chances your Live pray item might injure your snake(which is about a 1%risk IF the caretaker is stupid and leaves the live pray item unattended). As far as the "HUMANE" part of it, thats my favorite debate lol. F/t Mice you get in a nice bag, comes in the mail, you feel so good and wonderful because you didn't hurt a thing. Meanwhile those frozen mice were either frozen while alive or as most mice providers will tell you "Killed Humanly using CO2, which makes all the F/t pro people push their stupid "humane theory"

CO2=Carbon Dioxide, also known as "CO2" and "The Silent Killer", is produced when we exhale. Our bodies convert oxygen, to carbon dioxide, as do all animals.

Studies on on mice, monkeys, and humans have shown one undisputed fact: direct correlation between exposure to pure Carbon Dioxide, and slow, agonizing death.

CO2 is colorless and odorless. :bang: Symptoms of exposure include dizziness, shortness of breath, inability to focus mentally, and death.
"imagine being able to breathe except every next breath you seem to choke more, as the co2 molecules bond with your blood instead of oxygen. This takes from 5seconds to 2 minuets(makes it look humane on rats/mice because unlike people and dogs there aren't many VISIBLE pain characteristics) My King and my corns average a kill in 5-10 seconds. Both are horrible ways to die! However my snake has never taken 2 minuets!!!!! So in my opinion based of the 4 snakes i own its a quicker death with the snake. I myself was an AVID f/t ONLY feeder, Especially because one of my fav pets is a fancy mouse, until i actually researched methods of killing f/t. Its not a magic gas that puts them to sleep easily and calmly, which for some reason because of that FAKE "Humane label" people argue and preach.

In conclusion (MY OPINION ) I feed both because personally i don't care about mice nor will i ever place a rodent(responsible for Unmanageable deaths to people, from disease)on the same tier as a HUMAN. BUT BUT BUT logically a snake is more (only using this word because thats whats debated) HUMANE than a CO2 Gas chamber.! And until someone posts a Chemical compound used thats proven to be PAINLESS like "morphine"(which with the proper dosage will kill) That all these f/t providers start using, its ignorant to say f/t frozen mice are more humane! When its MASS SUFFERING!

(ONCE AGAIN I MYSELF FEED FROZEN mainly due to convenience and i don't believe in Terms like "humane" should even be used with rodents) The whole reason for the Human Theory rite up was I'm tired of people who have no idea how the GAS works always pushing that its better for them its better! )
 
Corny Noob said:
Ok I got tired of reading the bickering back and forth but here is where I stopped reading and decided to comment. I'm a "mommy" (lol) to many animals and I'm gravid (lol again) soon to be mommy to a human.
I am not vegan (where the **** did you pull that one out of?) And I think being responsible for any other life is important.
If you chose to make yourself responsible you're dutiful to give them the best care you possibly can.

Period
:)

I have to respond on vegan tip:

Veganism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Vegan)
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“Vegan” redirects here. For other uses, see Vegan (disambiguation).
The logo of the world's first Vegan Society, registered in 1944.
The logo of the world's first Vegan Society, registered in 1944.

Veganism (also strict or pure vegetarianism) is a philosophy and lifestyle that seeks to exclude the use of animal derived products for food, clothing, or any other purpose[1].[2] Vegans do not use or consume animal products of any kind.[3] The most popular reasons for becoming a vegan are ethical commitment or moral convictions[1] concerning animal rights, the environment, or human health, and spiritual or religious concerns.[4][5] Of particular concern are the practices involved in factory farming and animal testing, and the intensive use of land and other resources required for animal farming.

Vegans believe all things are created equal for the most part and will not partake in the destruction of one animal for another. So when I said animals are not on the same level as humans, vegans would disagree. Thats where I pulled that out of.
 
Azoun said:
CO2=Carbon Dioxide, also known as "CO2" and "The Silent Killer", is produced when we exhale. Our bodies convert oxygen, to carbon dioxide, as do all animals.

Studies on on mice, monkeys, and humans have shown one undisputed fact: direct correlation between exposure to pure Carbon Dioxide, and slow, agonizing death.


The key word there is "pure": People following humane laws and guidelines for killing mice with CO2 do not use pure CO2. Instead they gradually increase the concentration of CO2 which causes death with minimun discomfort.

CO2 is a "silent killer" because sleeping *human beings* fail to notice that they are dying when CO2 builds up in their homes due to faulty furances or ventilation.
 
CO2=Carbon Dioxide, also known as "CO2" and "The Silent Killer"

CO2 is a "silent killer" because sleeping *human beings* fail to notice that they are dying when CO2 builds up in their homes due to faulty furances or ventilation.

Actually...CO2 is not the "silent killer" (well...unless of course you're a mouse)

CO, Carbon MONOxide is the "silent killer" caused by "faulty furances or ventilation."

Regards,
Steve
 
ssmith_1187 said:
Actually...CO2 is not the "silent killer" (well...unless of course you're a mouse)

CO, Carbon MONOxide is the "silent killer" caused by "faulty furances or ventilation."

Regards,
Steve

Pesky extra oxygen molecule! :)

Thanks for the catch.
 
ssmith_1187 said:
I thank Miss Fornek my high school chemistry teacher, arguably the toughest teacher in high school. :cheers:
Just to make it all clear....are you claiming you were Fornekated?

Thanks, that's my time....try the waitresses, and tip the veal.

You've been a great crowd!
icon_bolt.gif


regards,
jazz
 
are you claiming you were Fornekated?

Dale,

You truly are incorrigible.

Thanks for keeping it fun :cheers:

Regards,
Steve

P.S. Why is it that it takes you 15-20 years to realize just how good some of your teachers were in high school or college? A shame really.
 
Why I'm proud to be from Irish lineage....

ssmith_1187 said:
P.S. Why is it that it takes you 15-20 years to realize just how good some of your teachers were in high school or college? A shame really.
"Pity that youth is wasted on the young." - George Bernard Shaw

(And thank you, Leo Potochnik (English), Harry Wilson (Chemistry), and Marcel Lachenmann (Advanced Biology) ).

regards,
jazz
 
Well, I haven't done any live feedings, for most of the reasons covered already and also that my wife would not hear of it (I've never considered it anyway), but two conflicting but relevant points that I have not seen:

1) You can cut some nice slices into your f/t mouse, which aids in digestion.

2) If you have a refuse-nik, then you can take out a live mouse and use it some other day. If you don't keep garbage-disposal pets in your home, an unwanted f/t or f/k mouse gets tossed. So you are in effect saving a mouse's life by not having one killed (by your supplier or yourself) just to throw it away.

I'm not sure how many nice ways there are to die. Maybe constriction isn't so much worse than how most of them go, in the long run. Kind of hard to really imagine it; kind of like drowning maybe?

Just my random thoughts of the day...

-Sean
 
hartsock said:
Really? Are you basing that on nutritional values of other meat when frozen or has there actually been a study done on mice/rats concerning this? I am not challanging what you said, just never heard of that and I tend to want to be a sponge when it comes to snake knowledge....thanks!
Well, I'll admit that I'm relying on second-hand information. I haven't seen any studies on rodents. I'll also admit that I dont understand WHY the nutritional value decreases. Freezing ruptures cell walls which compromises nutritional values. At the same time, it INCREASES digestibility. I've spoken with Edna Queen at The Mouse Factory about how long her vaccuum-sealed product can last if kept frozen. She discouraged me from buying smaller prey items (pinks and fuzzies) in quantities that wouldn't be used within six months due to their increased susceptibility to freezer-burn and the negative effects of freezer-burn on nutritional value. If I come across more detailed info, I'll let you know. :)
 
Roy Munson said:
Well, I'll admit that I'm relying on second-hand information. I haven't seen any studies on rodents. I'll also admit that I dont understand WHY the nutritional value decreases. Freezing ruptures cell walls which compromises nutritional values. At the same time, it INCREASES digestibility. I've spoken with Edna Queen at The Mouse Factory about how long her vaccuum-sealed product can last if kept frozen. She discouraged me from buying smaller prey items (pinks and fuzzies) in quantities that wouldn't be used within six months due to their increased susceptibility to freezer-burn and the negative effects of freezer-burn on nutritional value. If I come across more detailed info, I'll let you know. :)

A bunch of food safety sites maintain that food can safely be frozen indefinitely without becoming unsafe to eat, but they do say that extended freezing will "decrease quality" of foods stored.

It looks like they mostly mean look and texture, but they might also mean a decrease in nutrients.

They also say that freezer-burned food is not unsafe to eat, it just doesn't taste good. See, for example, http://web.extension.uiuc.edu/meatsafety/storing/freezer.html
 
vaccuum-sealed product...in quantities that wouldn't be used within six months

That's interesting. I realize that they lack the fur coat of their older brothers and sisters, but I would have thought vacuum sealing would have gotten you to at least a year.

Good to know, thanks!!!

Regards,
Steve
 
ssmith_1187 said:
That's interesting. I realize that they lack the fur coat of their older brothers and sisters, but I would have thought vacuum sealing would have gotten you to at least a year.

Good to know, thanks!!!
I'm guessing that hoppers and weaneds (mice) could be ok for at least a year. Adult mice could probably go for much longer, and jumbos would probably be ok for up to two years if the vacuum-seal wasn't breached.
 
blueapplepaste said:
OT. Technical note and pet peeve of mine; animal cells don't have a cell wall; only plants have a cell wall. [/nerdy biochemist]

What are the things called then that hold the insides of animal cells inside and keep the outsides out?
 
blueapplepaste said:
OT. Technical note and pet peeve of mine; animal cells don't have a cell wall; only plants have a cell wall. [/nerdy biochemist]

I never knew that! Thank you. So what do animals have in place of a cell wall?

BTW, my pet peeve is "poisonous" snakes. Snakes are venomous, not poisonous. (nerdy snakelady here)
 
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