• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

My Egg Adventure!

That is a good point elrojo.

I couldn't help noticing that you bred her kinked and way under 300 grams. I am so glad Murphy smiled down on you and you got healthy babies and the momma survived. Congrats
 
That is a good point elrojo.

I couldn't help noticing that you bred her kinked and way under 300 grams. I am so glad Murphy smiled down on you and you got healthy babies and the momma survived. Congrats

Did any of the hatchlings have kinks or deformities of the jaw?

Are you telling me that a kinked, deformed, underweight snake was bred? SERIOUSLY?????
Even if this female was a perfect specimen a RESPONSIBLE breeder who CARES ABOUT THE WELFARE of their animals waits until the female is at least 300 grams. Kinked, deformed snakes should NEVER EVER be bred at all.
What the hell was this "breeder" thinking??????????????
 
Are you telling me that a kinked, deformed, underweight snake was bred? SERIOUSLY?????
Even if this female was a perfect specimen a RESPONSIBLE breeder who CARES ABOUT THE WELFARE of their animals waits until the female is at least 300 grams. Kinked, deformed snakes should NEVER EVER be bred at all.
What the hell was this "breeder" thinking??????????????
Check the link to the Iherp page. The kinked female with the deformed jaw was bred early 'before the kinks could get worse'. If the OP hadn't written it herself I'd never have believed it.
 
Check the link to the Iherp page. The kinked female with the deformed jaw was bred early 'before the kinks could get worse'. If the OP hadn't written it herself I'd never have believed it.

How absolutely stomach-churningly disgusting. Poor poor snake should have been culled at hatching. Much more humane that what is happening to her now.
Well, it appears that Sacred Nightmares just made it onto my DNBF/DNST list....
 
How absolutely stomach-churningly disgusting. Poor poor snake should have been culled at hatching. Much more humane that what is happening to her now.
Well, it appears that Sacred Nightmares just made it onto my DNBF/DNST list....
Hopefully the hatchlings will be sold with full disclosure of the potential for genetic problems. Personally I'd hate to buy something like that for a breeding project and end up with clutch after clutch of deformed hatchlings, it would be heart-breaking
 
I must spread some reputation around, etc., etc. I will remember this thread the next time I am feeling "compassionate" about a kinked hatchling and even consider giving it away as a pet.
 
I must spread some reputation around, etc., etc. I will remember this thread the next time I am feeling "compassionate" about a kinked hatchling and even consider giving it away as a pet.
Chip, this is why I will NEVER give away a less than perfect hatchling. Any kinked babies either stay with me for life or are culled. It would be different if I lived close enough to people I have grown to love and trust from on here, but I don't.
 
Hopefully the hatchlings will be sold with full disclosure of the potential for genetic problems. Personally I'd hate to buy something like that for a breeding project and end up with clutch after clutch of deformed hatchlings, it would be heart-breaking

I hope so too but based on the fact that this deformed kinky tiny little girl's life was risked by this keeper to produce these babies doesn't show much promise that full disclosure is in the cards here.
Wow, it's been awhile since I have felt such absolute contempt for another person here.....
 
A very pretty and lucky girl I got from a breeder friend at HotSnakes2Go. She was going to be euthanized, but I took her on as a pet. She used to have two small kinks in the middle of her spine, and a funny shaped jaw. Now the kinks are completely unnoticeable and I don't even notice her jaw anymore. And this girl is my BEST EATER EVER! Never refuses, not even the seconds. She has a long and happy life ahead of her!! She was named after my favorite movie, Little Nikki, since his jaw deformity reminds me of her. :]

I couldn't believe it but from reading this description it does sound like the snake had hatched kinked and was going to be euthanized, but then the breeder found what they thought would be a "pet only" home.
This would be a very happy story if the snake had indeed been a "pet only". As hard as it is for a breeder to cull a snake, when you don't and you give it away as a pet only there is NEVER any guarantee the recipient won't turn around and breed!
To be fair it is possible these kinks are not genetic but what if they are? Unfair to whoever buys them, and unfair to the breeder who gave away that snake thinking it wouldn't be bred.
 
Actually, there were two females that were kinked and bred under 300g. One was just 200g post lay, which is the one she was given as a pet only snake http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewAnimal.aspx?AnimalID=55525. She bred the poor thing anyways http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewTracking.aspx?AnimalID=55525

The other was 194 post lay, she wanted to breed her fast before the tail kinks got worse. http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewTracking.aspx?AnimalID=54658

I have no words to express my feelings at this point.
 
If I'm reading right, both females were kinked, & were bred anyways, & both were bred at 200-something grams.

I don't know if you knew the dangers of breeding too small, as well as breeding not one, but two animals with deformities or not.

I could understand doing one test breeding to see if the kinks were genetic, but I would never do this with a female, because of the added possible complications with her having to carry/lay the eggs.

I agree with the others, that not knowing if the kinks were genetic or an incubation thing, I do hope you're fully disclosing that the babies came from both females that have deformities.

That being said, kinks seem to be prevelant in the pied BR lines, like in the Lavender lines. I know someone who works with Pied BR's & has had a number of kinked babies. That makes me believe that it a genetic thing.

I truely hope this was a case of not really knowing/understanding how bad it is to intentionally breed deformed animals, & on top of that, at a smaller size than is recommended to safely breed for normal, healthy animals.
 
Actually, there were two females that were kinked and bred under 300g. One was just 200g post lay, which is the one she was given as a pet only snake http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewAnimal.aspx?AnimalID=55525. She bred the poor thing anyways http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewTracking.aspx?AnimalID=55525

The other was 194 post lay, she wanted to breed her fast before the tail kinks got worse. http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewTracking.aspx?AnimalID=54658

I have no words to express my feelings at this point.

I was typing as you posted ;)
 
Actually, there were two females that were kinked and bred under 300g. One was just 200g post lay, which is the one she was given as a pet only snake http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewAnimal.aspx?AnimalID=55525. She bred the poor thing anyways http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewTracking.aspx?AnimalID=55525

The other was 194 post lay, she wanted to breed her fast before the tail kinks got worse. http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewTracking.aspx?AnimalID=54658

I have no words to express my feelings at this point.
I hadn't read that thoroughly into the info. I'd be banned if I expressed my feelings fully.
 
I think I would be banned as well. I have a pet only snake and there is no way in H E double hockey sticks that I would EVER consider breeding her. She isn't even kinked, she just has a slight dimpling in her lower spine. She is beautiful too and would make stunning babies.

The feeding records have me concerned as well. It seems to me like the OP was trying really hard to fatten up or do a miracle grow on the poor girls. That poor female that was only 194g even a month after laying eggs. That is so despicable to me and makes my heart hurt.
 
Dear Lynch Mob,

Autumn sent me a text the other day, I guess when she saw my post about getting one of these awesome babies. She wanted to know if I knew what I was getting myself in to. I was at work so I told her that I'd get back to her later. Well, now is later, and I thought that instead of just telling Autumn what's what, I'd tell all of you so that I don't have to say it all twice.

First, let me say that you're all terrible people.

Now, about Nikki. Nikki is the first female she bred this year. She was born with kinks and a jaw deformity, and the breeder was going to put her down. Jen took her instead, in hopes of saving her life and making her a wonderful pet. I'd say she was pretty successful. In the snake's bio it says, "She was going to be euthanized, but I took her on as a pet." NOWHERE does this imply that a "pet only" deal was made. Every snake I buy is a pet, but that doesn't automatically mean I won't be breeding it. What do they say about assumptions? I don't remember, but it has something to do with @ssholes, I think.

Next we'll talk about Nikki's deformities. She had two kinks. Yes, I did say had. But how can that be?! Well, if you've kept snakes long enough then you've either seen or heard of a snake outgrowing kinks. I've never seen it, but I have heard of it. Jen says she can't find the kinks. Her vet says the same thing. You know what that says to me? It says they aren't there. And as for her jaw, I don't know how bad it was as a baby, but I've seen close-up pics from last month from all angles and I can't see any problems whatsoever. So it sounds to me like Nikki is fine.

Wednesday is the other female Jen has, the female with the kinked tail. Wednesday wasn't born with kinks. Jen saw what she thought were kinks so she made a note in the animal's tracking. This animal has also seen a vet. Vet's opinion? No kinks. I don't know what Jen saw or felt, but there's nothing wrong with this girl either.

About pied lines being kinked, Heather, if Matt is having problems then maybe it's Matt's animals? I haven't heard of anyone else having kink issues with their pied lines. Zorro had 2 or 3 clutches this year with no issues. I know I don't know everyone, but I do pay attention to what's going on as best I can.

Now about both girls being bred at 2 years and under 300 grams. Yeah, I've done it. Not successfully, sadly, but that's my luck. And I'll bet Rich Z. did it once or twice. And Don. And Kathy, probably. Should I go on? Because the rule of threes doesn't always apply, and we all know it. Any breeder in proper tune with their animals knows when it's time. For Jen and her girls, it was time. Not to mention that diffused lines can breed small. And if the girls were too small for breeding, then why were her breeding stats so good this year with these small, sickly animals? Clutch from Nikki yielded 12 fertiles, no slugs, and 12 perfectly unkinked babies. The Wednesday clutch hasn't hatched, but there are 11 fertile eggs and no slugs. None. Sounds like good eggs from healthy adults to me.

You all attacked Jen while she wasn't here and you all look stupid for doing so. And if I didn't post these answers here then you'd never have them. I doubt Jen will ever come back because you're children with too much free time. Good job!
 
Personally I acted on the information that was in the public area. The OP stated that the snakes were kinked and that one had a deformed jaw. there was no mention of vet checks. Maybe, as you claim, an experienced breeder with a mystical connection to their snakes could tell they were safe to breed at a young age or at a small size, but this was said to be the first time of breeding corns for Jen. Unless you know otherwise?
 
I personally think she got incredibly lucky that both of her undersized snakes were just fine after being bred too small. It's one thing if Don or Kathy feels it's ok to breed a small one they have been keeping them for years - long enough to become a good judge of condition. (And written books recommending that novices NOT try breeding that young at home)
I have lost females to egg binding that were in perfect shape and looked fine to me. It was heartbreaking. I don't care what anybody thinks, I am gonna speak up if I think someone is doing something dumb or giving bad advice that might hurt their pets.
Beginner's luck or not, if that breeder who gave her that snake asked for her to keep as a pet ONLY then breeding it was wrong because she broke a promise.
It's commendable that you stick up for your friend but it doesn't make what she did right in my eyes, sorry.
 
Back
Top