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My Egg Adventure!

Personally, if any of my snakes are born with kinks, I will not be breeding them. I do not want to chance it being genetic. That is all we need is more bad genes in the pool to be spread around like butter throughout the species.
 
I do not believe what she did was right. I am sorry! I agree with Jen (Ghost) and Heather and Outcast. IF that makes me look like a child so be it!
 
ghosthousecorns said:
Beginner's luck or not, if that breeder who gave her that snake asked for her to keep as a pet ONLY then breeding it was wrong because she broke a promise.
It's commendable that you stick up for your friend but it doesn't make what she did right in my eyes, sorry.
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This was not implied anywhere ever. I don't why it keeps being repeated.
 
fyrefocks said:
You all attacked Jen while she wasn't here and you all look stupid for doing so. And if I didn't post these answers here then you'd never have them. I doubt Jen will ever come back because you're children with too much free time. Good job!
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Not as stupid as someone would look for buying one and defending this. In my opinion, of course. This thread has done more to promote culling than any argument I have ever read.
 
My question is, did the vet x-ray the snakes, or did they just look at them and say "hmmmm... doesn't look kinked to me"? If it is the latter, then the kinks most likely are still there, sometimes kinks visually fade because of the amount of flesh that builds up around them, but they are still there in the bones. If an x-ray was done, and no kinks were there, that is the only time I would believe that the kinks "got better".
 
Outcast said:
My question is, did the vet x-ray the snakes, or did they just look at them and say "hmmmm... doesn't look kinked to me"? If it is the latter, then the kinks most likely are still there, sometimes kinks visually fade because of the amount of flesh that builds up around them, but they are still there in the bones. If an x-ray was done, and no kinks were there, that is the only time I would believe that the kinks "got better".
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I did not ask about x-rays so I do not know. You do present a valid point though.

To those claiming it's ok for one person to breed a snake early and not another, well, that's silliness. Ultimately, whether you're Kathy Love or Joe Shmoe, breeding them early is a gamble and if you're successful then you got lucky. I mean, it's easier to guess when you have all that experience, but it's still a lucky guess. I don't see why it can't apply here.

I've said my peace so I'm out.
 
fyrefocks said:
Dear Lynch Mob,

Autumn sent me a text the other day, I guess when she saw my post about getting one of these awesome babies. She wanted to know if I knew what I was getting myself in to. I was at work so I told her that I'd get back to her later. Well, now is later, and I thought that instead of just telling Autumn what's what, I'd tell all of you so that I don't have to say it all twice.

First, let me say that you're all terrible people.

Now, about Nikki. Nikki is the first female she bred this year. She was born with kinks and a jaw deformity, and the breeder was going to put her down. Jen took her instead, in hopes of saving her life and making her a wonderful pet. I'd say she was pretty successful. In the snake's bio it says, "She was going to be euthanized, but I took her on as a pet." NOWHERE does this imply that a "pet only" deal was made. Every snake I buy is a pet, but that doesn't automatically mean I won't be breeding it. What do they say about assumptions? I don't remember, but it has something to do with @ssholes, I think.

Next we'll talk about Nikki's deformities. She had two kinks. Yes, I did say had. But how can that be?! Well, if you've kept snakes long enough then you've either seen or heard of a snake outgrowing kinks. I've never seen it, but I have heard of it. Jen says she can't find the kinks. Her vet says the same thing. You know what that says to me? It says they aren't there. And as for her jaw, I don't know how bad it was as a baby, but I've seen close-up pics from last month from all angles and I can't see any problems whatsoever. So it sounds to me like Nikki is fine.

Wednesday is the other female Jen has, the female with the kinked tail. Wednesday wasn't born with kinks. Jen saw what she thought were kinks so she made a note in the animal's tracking. This animal has also seen a vet. Vet's opinion? No kinks. I don't know what Jen saw or felt, but there's nothing wrong with this girl either.

About pied lines being kinked, Heather, if Matt is having problems then maybe it's Matt's animals? I haven't heard of anyone else having kink issues with their pied lines. Zorro had 2 or 3 clutches this year with no issues. I know I don't know everyone, but I do pay attention to what's going on as best I can.

Now about both girls being bred at 2 years and under 300 grams. Yeah, I've done it. Not successfully, sadly, but that's my luck. And I'll bet Rich Z. did it once or twice. And Don. And Kathy, probably. Should I go on? Because the rule of threes doesn't always apply, and we all know it. Any breeder in proper tune with their animals knows when it's time. For Jen and her girls, it was time. Not to mention that diffused lines can breed small. And if the girls were too small for breeding, then why were her breeding stats so good this year with these small, sickly animals? Clutch from Nikki yielded 12 fertiles, no slugs, and 12 perfectly unkinked babies. The Wednesday clutch hasn't hatched, but there are 11 fertile eggs and no slugs. None. Sounds like good eggs from healthy adults to me.

You all attacked Jen while she wasn't here and you all look stupid for doing so. And if I didn't post these answers here then you'd never have them. I doubt Jen will ever come back because you're children with too much free time. Good job!
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No, Matt's snakes are not the only ones I've heard about it happening with, & I believe that Pied BR's are prone to kinks similar to Lavenders.

I stated how I felt about the situation, & I stand by it.

Are you defending her because you got free/cheap baby(ies) out of this?
 
nwheather said:
No, Matt's snakes are not the only ones I've heard about it happening with, & I believe that Pied BR's are prone to kinks similar to Lavenders.

I stated how I felt about the situation, & I stand by it.

Are you defending her because you got free/cheap baby(ies) out of this?
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Nope. The girl I'm purchasing isn't free, or cheap, really. I'm paying just about as much for her as I did for the one I got from John.
 
fyrefocks said:
To those claiming it's ok for one person to breed a snake early and not another, well, that's silliness. Ultimately, whether you're Kathy Love or Joe Shmoe, breeding them early is a gamble and if you're successful then you got lucky. I mean, it's easier to guess when you have all that experience, but it's still a lucky guess. I don't see why it can't apply here.
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This is ridiculous. That's like saying it's OK for both a trained electrician and someone who doesn't know what they are doing to mess around with a high voltage transformer. One of these two is a LOT more likely to die from electric shock. One has experience and training and years of work under their belt and the other does not.
 
ghosthousecorns said:
This is ridiculous. That's like saying it's OK for both a trained electrician and someone who doesn't know what they are doing to mess around with a high voltage transformer. One of these two is a LOT more likely to die from electric shock. One has experience and training and years of work under their belt and the other does not.
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I was thinking the exact same thing Jen, with a bunch of different analogies running through my head. I concur that that was a silly statement to make.

Also, to state that the snake's life was saved, thereby justifying that this was ok is similar to saying that if someone saved a 10 year old boy from dying in a fire, it makes it ok if that person wants to keep that boy as a slave for the rest of his life. Extreme comparison but this situation doesn't hold any less merit.

I've just watched this transaction from afar, and do not usually make any statements in situations like this but this one stood out as being poor judgment.
 
ghosthousecorns said:
This is ridiculous. That's like saying it's OK for both a trained electrician and someone who doesn't know what they are doing to mess around with a high voltage transformer. One of these two is a LOT more likely to die from electric shock. One has experience and training and years of work under their belt and the other does not.
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My analogy was like a surgeon vs. random Joe off the streets. Who are you going to entrust your life to on an operating table? o_O That way, innocent lives are at stake, not just the person doing it; kind of how the snake's life is endangered. Either way, well put.

But perhaps this needs locked? It's just turned into a rant. But perhaps it can be stickied as an example of how frowned upon this is?
 
Unlike other forums we don't lock threads on here. :) We are able to voice our opinion without is being silenced even if it is just a rant. lol
 
Some good analogies, only difference is we all gave examples where people are at risk instead of snakes.
Anyway, it was never my intention to "drive away" a cs member and I do feel bad if sacred nightmares Jen doesn't feel like she can post here anymore. But I certainly have been on the other end where it's me getting "lynched" on a thread or blog, you have to roll with the punches sometimes. And if you love the hobby sometimes you have to dust yourself off, learn from the mistake, and move on without dwelling on what people think.
 
May I suggest please tell me if its a bad idea but from my time spent here with everyone I keep finding more and more that new comers come here because they have encountered an issue and are looking to find answers I understand what Jen did was very risky and in some ways selfish but since not all of our minds wander to what it could cause for our future morphs and our own personal pets through the excitement and possibilities, I feel that it would be a great idea "knowing from experience" it is very difficult while researching online to find all of the answers you need before making a mistake, if we could provide a link to cornsnakes.com or even perhaps create a new tab with a little bit of input from everyone and thier own personal experiences of the good and bad we can maybe prevent some of these things happening to our hobbies and joyous pets we care so much about. I mean to have a page that list the main things about feeding, breeding, housing, co-habbing, health problems you may encounter, etc.
I know for me back in the day it would have saved a lot of frustration and panic, its hard to ask questions about things you are completely unaware of not saying the forums arent helpful because by all means they are just saying that if you have somewhere to start off on you know what questions you need to ask before "this" happens.

Am I wrong?
 
Cocoa, are you suggesting like a "Personal experience" kind of thing? If so, I agree that it's a good idea. Not everyone likes researching a lot like I do, so having a basic "Don't do this, here's some real-life examples why" type of thing would be a good idea. Especially if it was easy to spot, because hunting down the information is going to have a lot of people just going "Forget it, I'll figure it out myself." Probably with less than stellar results.
Honestly I'm not as upset at the original poster as I am at her friend coming in and white-knighting for her. I can imagine she's upset, but the best thing to do is own the mistake, ask for advice, and move on. *shrug* That's just my thoughts though.
 
I totally agree with you I spent hours researching and still found out many more things by spending time on this forum. I get it we cant provide all the answers but insight of the general problems would be very helpful to the average newbie/ owners no matter what the scenario. I have had the same encounters as this with co-habbing opinions but some people do it because they dont have the money or space for a second enclosure and aren't aware of the things to take pre-cautions with if they choose to take that path I would just like to see something simple and easy to find that can atleast educate them from personal experiences just trying to uliminate the fact of finding out the hard way as I am sure we all have one or more stories to share. Should just be a non retorical page just a place where we can all submit our mistakes and what has come of them or even make a highlighted page simular to dot jots based on that :)
 
There was one started about cohabing once before. It ended up just being a debate about why or why not to cohab...
 
I've started a brief article on guidelines for breeding/should my snake be bred. Give me about 2-3 days & I'll have something ready. Upon starting, I've realized there's a LOT to touch on. Folks, feel welcome to PM me thoughts/ideas/etc.
 
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