Pied problem!

[tricksterpup]

I breed to prove to myself that my animals are healthy...

I thought you Breed to prove you are healthy. :sidestep:

 

[vetusvates]

I thought you Breed to prove you are healthy. :sidestep:

Jim, they put their own 'welsh' spin on things over there in Cymru.

 

[vetusvates]

It truely is a shame my thread ended like this.

It doesn't have to end like that.

Seriously though, David, I have several fires and ultramel bloodreds. Complete list is on reptilegeeks. Most from Don S., some from Hector, some from John F. (zorro), and one from Doc Walker (reptiledoc). All are gorgeous snakes as they are. As far as I recall, all of the first three breeders have pied bloodred snakes.
With that said, mine could be related to pied snakes. Closely or not so closely. But it has been my observation that in my snakes, the red seems to bleed down a little, and the white seems to bleed up a little. With a little imagination, I might see how I could call low expression pied in several of them. But I don't. They were not sold to me as such. So I could easily see how you might think you would be seeing it.

I seem to remember having read that "pied" is a trait that is somehow tied to the the diffuse (bloodred) trait. I am no expert, but they could/would be the ones to consult...about the idea/theory of the relationship between pied and diffused.

Moral of the story, metaphorically, when I hear hoofbeats, I think of horses before zebras.
If I were you, and really curious, I would inquire about the family tree of the snake in question.

 

[Carinata]

The breeder doesn't know the full story if these snakes, he has the parents and thats it. I got them in a trade. I will look if you can link me to your reptile geeks. My granite has none of the bleeding of white and he is a really nice granite! So I sorta though that maybe Scarlett could be low expression pied.
BTW Nancy,
Hector in a PM said that his high expression pied came from a almost no expression pied so I hoep you see my confusion

 

[vetusvates]

It is also my understanding, from reading, that breeding two high expression pieds will not necessarily result in offspring of high expression. Conversely, breeding two low expression pieds can possibly result in moderate to high expression pieds. It is not a consistently reproducible thing.
This is only my non-expert understanding.

 

[Carinata]

Hector got his extream high pieds from a no expression male!

 

[Carinata]

To tell you the truth Eric, I have not read through most of this thread because of the negativity. It really upsets me it had to go down like that. I am very grateful for Sheldon and Wade and you stepping in and trying to get us back on track

 

[MalinoisK9]

So about pieds... is it all basically luck? You need the genetics obviously.... but do they just express randomly? I'm a little confused with all of it. Its very interesting.

 

[desertanimal]

(whispered) I see disingenuousness. I see disingenuousness everywhere . . .

 

[Carinata]

I came here to learn about the pieds. I don't care if mine is or not. She is one of my favortie snakes. Very smart and curious and loves to eat. I wonder if pied is even a line bred thing?

 

[ComoxCorn]

As posted earlier in this thread, it would probably be a better idea David if you got yourself a few of the cornsnake books that are readily available on the market, i.e. Corn Snakes by Kathy Love, Corn Snakes in Captivity by Don Soderberg and especially the Cornsnake Morph Guide by Charles Pritzel to understand the genetics a little better.

 

[Carinata]

I have the books

 

[Nanci]

I think if you have to ask, AND your snake is not from a pied line, it is not pied. That's my new rule of thumb.

I'm very curious to see how Hector's second breeding of the amazing snakes turns out!!

 

[Carinata]

Well what I was seeing Nanci, was the little bleeding white flecks. But I will say it again Scarlett is an amazing snake and I don't care if shes blood or normal or whatever! She is one of the best snakes I have ever owned!

 

[Shiari]

It is definitely normal for a blood to have a little white smattering. Go into the photo gallery and look at the thread by KungAs titled "Like greyhead?" ... and you'll see that the hypo blood pictured has a few white speckles along the dorsum as well. Normals also sometimes have some white speckling.

 

[Carinata]

Thanks I will go look a that. I really don't care if all the hets don't work out these bloods are amazing feeders and both have shed. They are really some quality snakes!

 

[StrangeCargo]

I came here to learn about the pieds. I don't care if mine is or not. She is one of my favortie snakes. Very smart and curious and loves to eat. I wonder if pied is even a line bred thing?

I have the books

Then you have the answer. Read the pied section of the Cornsnake Morph Guide by Charles Pritzel and it'll explain it.

These are my feelings on the pied gene- hopefully it'll give you alittle more insight into them....

It's not JUST a line bred thing. It involves a pied gene. Two snakes carrying the pied gene MUST be paired to possibly produce pied corns. Yes it is true that Hector produced some awesome pieds from an almost no expression pied BUT HIS SNAKE HAD THE GENETIC make-up to make it possible. I have known people that have bred 2 pieds together and gotten a majority of the clutch expressing almost no pied patches- BUT those snakes still have the pied gene. The moral of the story is- If you wanna produce pieds, you need to have breeders that ARE pieds or at least HET pieds.

Almost any regular blood will have some slight white markings bleeding up from the belly- thats JUST normal.

The only way for you to prove out your animal as being pied is by breeding him/her. You may consider picking up a low expression pied from a proven line (very reasonably priced these days) to work into your future breeding projects....

I've picked up a few pieds this year to start projects with- I got VISUAL pieds from PIED parents to guarantee me the genetics needed to produce more...even though mine are medium to high expression, I know I'll be producing a babies (at least a handful) from their future clutches that will have low to no expression while others may be high expressions..

Attached is a photo of a pied corn with white pied areas...

 

[Carinata]

Thanks for the info Graham!

 

[Carinata]

So is there anyway Pied can be put in say a plain Lavender or normal?

 

[Shiari]

So far it appears to be entirely linked to diffusion.