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Proposal regarding hybrids / pure corns
- Thread starter Isoldael
- Start date
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
because....
I'd like to see that quote finished with the above. An example might be, "This is the only legitimate hybrid, all others are just plain wrong because hybrids are found in nature and the simple fact that they share a close enough ancestor to breed and produce fertile offspring means that this is not what nature intended. Never mind that man also tries to replicate natures hybridizing attempt on a larger scale or with specimens further removed geographically than could possibly be reasonably expected to occur in a humans lifetime.
beautifullywild77
Go Penguins!!!
wow, way to take a joke toots!
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
I can never really be sure which way it is meant when it comes out. Is it a joke? Is it an attempt at a clever aside? Is it trying to make a point?
To clarify, I was trying to make a joke and taking it as a joke while also trying to make a point. :duck:
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
It was just a joke, an attempt, however feeble, to lighten up this thread. I don't care at all how much anyone either loves or loathes hybrids in the hobby. There's room for all kinds of views and no need for everyone to hold the same ideals.
To go back to one of your ealier assertions, just where could a DNA test for one's snakey darlings be obtained and processed?
Outcast
ATPSS
I see job creation in the works!
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
The horror! I apologise for my typo!
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
You make me laugh diamondlil and to clarify, I mean that in a good way. I often feel like I'm making feeble attempts at best to be understood or misunderstood as the case may be. Another reason phones are such a neat invention. As for where to get dna testing done for herps, I believe I posted that back some pages ago.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
This place does dna testing (paternity testing) for snakes. Now, mind you this does prove your snake is pure corn. It just proves that your snake has the parents you say it has. One would still have to prove that their breeders were pure and not hybrids by whatever definition one would use to define or to prove these things. Personally, if I were going to buy a high end 900$ or up het, I'd have to pay for a paternity test to make sure I was getting the snake and the het or possible het genes I was after. If the morph or local was extremely rare, I might also like this to simply help keep track of inbreeding for future buyers/reselling options.
Outcast
ATPSS
Interesting, this idea takes the guesswork out of having to prove the hets of a snake... Though many people still like the excitement of the guess.
SnakeAround
Formerly Blutengel
I don't think Carpe Serpentis means that one can actually test for hets, but if the dna tells that the snake is indeed from the parents it is supposed to be, you are sure to get what you are told to get. Yet, to me arises the next question: how do we know the genetic make up of the parents is as told? If we trust a breeder to be honest about that, why use a paternity to begin with?
dave partington
Crazy Dave
I have heard tell of instances in which they did not prove out. Contact the seller if that happens. By then, they should have enough homoz to replace them. Personally, I'm having a greater appreciation these days of persons with breeding programs whom do not sell hets, do not advertise what target goals they are working towards, and thus have greater control over their target goal, and only sell when they have sufficient quantity of target, to avoid that whole 'market crasher' mentality. So many persons in this hobby/business/whatever-you-think-of-it-as- -anymore, well, I've seen instances of someone makes some hets, picks out what they want to raise up/keep/holdbacks, but then sells off the spare parts/what they don't want based on what hatched/ advertised as 100% hets..... Then 3-4 years later, 12 other people who purchased the hets suddenly flood the marketplace with loads of the same hot new morph, so the starting price is $800 or more, and within 6 months the market price is advertised as "$150 each, contact me for quantity discounts"/ If we are careful, projects. Dang, I hate the word "projects". If we are careful with out breeding programs we can do better and not short-sell ourselves in the long run. I need some milksnakes to babysit extra hets. Even with hets, sometimes it takes several breedings to prove them out.
dave partington
Crazy Dave
On a follow up to that,
it appears to me that
if one has a Homozygote target and breeds it to what was acquired as a 100% het, then approximately 50% come out as target. Assuming the het is het for only one target. However, because "classic" is not a target in the punnet square calculations, perhaps only around 25% come back as "target". Over the years of selective pairings, the more I come to distrust the punnet square calculations I was taught to trust.
It appears to me that
some recessive genes and traits
are more recessive then others.
it appears to me that
if one has a Homozygote target and breeds it to what was acquired as a 100% het, then approximately 50% come out as target. Assuming the het is het for only one target. However, because "classic" is not a target in the punnet square calculations, perhaps only around 25% come back as "target". Over the years of selective pairings, the more I come to distrust the punnet square calculations I was taught to trust.
It appears to me that
some recessive genes and traits
are more recessive then others.
dave partington
Crazy Dave
I have not voted in the poll. I do not know enough with certainty yet.
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
I will not vote in the poll, b/c it has no answer.
I have heard these tales as well. Believe me, one might say I will certainly contact the seller should these not prove out.
Amen. I might have never agreed with a post more.
Where were others with these thoughts in the "Do you always disclose hets?" thread. I thought I was the lone "unscrupulous" dude.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
A paternity test with a homozygous trait for instance... is a trait one can visually see. If the dna test proves that one parent was indeed the parent that is homozygous for that trait then you can be 100% assured that the babies from said parent are homozygous for that trait. But it gets better, if we are dealing with multiple possible known or unknown heterozygous genes, a dna pedigree would allow you to map back to the original founding member of that gene or genes with sufficient crossing in a larger gene pool... such as when one registers snakes with dna. Dna testing would also help to rule for or out parthenogenesis which again could help one decide some critical things like... if one of my hatchlings proves to be derived solely from mom (palmetto het) then perhaps I might desire to breed that hatchling back to mom first.... One might also remember that perhaps one did another attempted breeding or breeding, multiple sires... the list goes on of why one would want to do this. Never mind adding legitimacy to ones claims. Dna testing can also prove sibling relationships, etc.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
Dna testing eliminates the need to trust